Native fish (particularly Orange Spotted Sunfish), need advice

[knifemaker]

Hi guys. I have been keeping gouramis and such for a while and want to get into native fish. I am particularly interested in Orange Spotted Sunfish. Anyone here have those? Any particular recomendations on how to keep them?

I checked with my local F&G and they said should be ok since they aren't an Alaskan fish.

Would like to hear about tank sizes, what you are feeding, what their personalities are like and anything else you would like to share.

I am also interested to hear about any other native fish you might be keeping.
Thanks,
Knifemaker

[OrionGirl]

Sunfish in general are some of the nastiest tempered fish you can find. Plan on a LARGE tank, at least a 75 for 3, and bigger to keep more. They are VERY territorial, and will beat up smaller members of the community, so try to get fish that are close in size. Tall plants will help, and you'll want to provide lots of other cover. Feeding--prepared frozen foods should be fine, though you can supplement with blood worms, or live insect larvae as they are available. I wouldn't plan on keeping anything else with them, other than maybe a smaller bullhead--it's thick slime will help protect it, and it will help clean up some (though bullheads also can be messy).

[josephish]

I caught a warmouth a couple years ago and kept it in my 55gal for a year and then released it. The warmouth is in the sunfish family and looks similiar to a smallmaouth bass. the warmouth is much smaller than a bass only getting to about 8". it had purplish wavey coloring and surprisingly a good aquarium fish. i fed it crickets and earthworms and it ate the other stuff too like flakes and pellets.

[OrionGirl]

You might want to check out http://www.nanfa.org/ for more info on keeping native species in aquaria.

[Flowerhorn916]

There very hardy fish I suggest feeding them worms incets and minnows. I would recomend a green sunfish if you can get ahold of one here are some pics of a few I have cought

http://www.calfishing.com/gallery/album13

[knifemaker]

Thanks for the info. Could you tell me more about the green sunfish. I have never seen one before. Unfortunately can't catch any sunfish here in Alaska so I am going to find seome place where I can buy whatever fish I settle on.
Thanks,
Josh

[Flowerhorn916]

Green sunfish are very colorfull they range from dark green to black with beautifull highlights and alot of times orange or white edges to theif fins. They are very agressive tanking on prey half their size they also have huge mouths there alot like a cold water jack dempsey.

[msouth468]

Just make sure that you don't need a permit to own a green sunfish. They may not be native to alaska but they are still considered to be a game fish.

[knifemaker]

I have talked with different people from AK F&G several times. Basically they said that if it is not native to AK and you can buy it from a store you can keep it legaly.
http://jonahsaquarium.com/fishlist.htm
This seems to be the best place I have found to get Native fishes for me. Unfortunately shipping to AK is extravagent. I am talking with my LFS and a couple of them say they might be able to get them towards April.
I have a 20 high so orange spotted are particularly interesting since they are one of the smaller sunfish and I should actually be able to keep a pair of them comfortably in the tank I have.

[Flowerhorn916]

A 20gal is too small mabey they will fit in there till they reach 4" but that will only take a matter of 4 or 5 months max I would suggest a bigger tank

[DHR]

Haven't kept orange spotteds, but currently have a few other species -- spotted, pumpkinseeds, and warmouths. Each species has a little different temperament, but I haven't found any to be a big problem. Mine eat cichlid pellets just fine -- they love the Hikari carnivore food sticks and the Tetra Jumbomins. Frozen treats like prawns, bloodworms, silversides, etc are taken with greed. Veggies also -- corn, broccoli, cauliflower, spinach -- come to think of it, I haven't found much they won't eat. Live mealworms are great and cheap. Each species has a slightly different preference. The warmouths for example are much more pisciverous than the p'seeds. I find them a lot of fun to keep, and gorgeous with the right deco and lighting. I have heard that the greens are very aggressive, but have no first-hand experience with them.

[knifemaker]

Thanks for the info, I am getting excited about this. Maybe I'll have to find a way to get the 55 set up, would be much "cooler" than the 20.

[DHR]

Good luck! Here are a few of my guys:

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b318/DanRad45/Natives.jpg

[msouth468]

Hey, that one in front isn't a perch, is it?

[knifemaker]

That is really great looking. Do you have any more pictures? would love to see. What size tank is that?

[Gambusia]

Hey, that one in front isn't a perch, is it?

Yellow perch definitely

Beautiful fish

[Gambusia]

A 20 gallon tank would certainly be fine for a pair of orange spotted sunfish.

Also look for bluespotted sunfish and blackbanded sunfish.

Sunfish are neat. I have kept several :dance:

[knifemaker]

From the article I read it sounds like Blackbands may be a little to complicated for me just yet.

[DHR]

I'd agree that the 20-high should be OK for a couple of orange-spotteds. You can always go up later if you feel the need. You seem to have done some homework! Good luck! BTW, the pic above was in a 125. Have now moved them all to a 210. Yes, that is a yellow perch in the pic -- I have 3 of those, along with the 4 p'seeds, 2 warmouths, and a spotted. A gar rounds out the natives for the moment:

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b318/DanRad45/Gar.jpg

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b318/DanRad45/PSeed.jpg

[knifemaker]

Thanks for the info and encouragement. Cool fish.

[Gambusia]

Blackbanded sunfish and pygmy sunfish in my experience are more readily found in the aquarium trade.

I have found juvenile bluegill as 'feeder fish' before however

[knifemaker]

I joined NFC http://www.nativefish.org/ (I chose NFC over NANFA because NFC puts much more effort into conservation). There are often Doller or Orange Spotted Sunfish in the Trading Post so I shouldn't have too much dificulty getting fish when I am really ready to start + my LFS actually said they would be getting some Orange Spotteds in around April.
So that is looking promising.

[DHR]

Great! Keep us posted!

[Gambusia]

Good deal!

In between you can do some serious research on them.

[graysilm]

pretty pumpkinseeds. for anyone who is considering a native tank, i would reccommend suplementing the fish with some food that increases coloration. native fish seem to loose their pretty coloration in aquariums a lot. water changes to keep nitrates low will help a lot too.

[knifemaker]

Graysilm, would Omega One Super color work? That is what I have right now.

[msouth468]

Hey, DHR


Is that an alligator gar? Here in Iowa it is illegal to own them because they are considered endangered here.

[graysilm]

Graysilm, would Omega One Super color work? That is what I have right now. Yes it should work, ask DHR what he is feeding, his fish are very impressive.

[knifemaker]

Cool, hey DHR, what you feeding those fish?

[DHR]

Bought that gar as a shortnose, but people who know more than I do think it's a longnose.

For feeding, I try to give a good variety. They're not picky eaters by any means, but some things they like less than others. They really like:

Hikari: cichlid gold and bio-gold, and the carnivore sticks
Omega One pellets - just pick a size they can handle
Azoo carnivore sticks
Tetra Jumbomin (my guys are pretty good size now)
Tetra cichlid sticks

Once a week or so:
FD Krill or plankton (depends on size of fish), or
mealworms, earthworms, crickets, etc
Frozen bloodworms when they were smaller

Warmouths are a somewhat more pisciverous -- occasional safe feeders, frozen silversides or prawns. Amazing what they can swallow. Remind me of young oscars, only more shy.

Once in awhile some chopped spinach, or cauliflower. Haven't yet found any veggie pellets that they like.

I really like my group! Good luck!

[teleost]

Knifemaker:orangespotted sunfish (OSS) are an excellent chioce for an aquarium. I keep OSS along with over 30 other US native species. OSS are NOT AGRESSIVE!!!! These fish are very docile and can be kept along with most any fish it can't fit in it's mouth. I keep mine along with balckbandeds(which aren't very hard to keep). OSS prefer cover (driftwood and plants), will eat most dead and live foods. I feed most of my fish shrimp (chopped and frozen from the supermarket) or raw chopped fish. OSS tend not to take to dry pellets as other native may. Live feeds are not required for OSS or blackbandeds.

BTW: Green sunfish have half the color of OSS and ten times the attitude. Green sunfish will bully things much larger than themselves.
Natives basically have a highly variable tempers. Many people don't know any better and think all sunfish are mean but actually very few are bullys like green sunfish.

And that gar above is either a spotted or florida (not long or shortnose)

[knifemaker]

thanks for the info. We are moving to a place this summer where I will have room to set up my 55 and i am planning to get sunfish for it. Would I be best with one or two or more like 4-5?
Thanks,
Josh