What fish mix well with mollies (not goldfish, i've learnt!) [Archive]

OrionGirl

12-30-2005, 2:34 PM

Yes, mollies can and do live in brackish conditions and can be adpated to full marine. However--salting water is NOT the same as creating brackish or marine conditions, and it's unlikely that most people will be purchasing wild-strain mollies. Commercially available mollies, particularly the 'fancy' strains like balloon and sailfins, are far removed from their wild cousins, and do not need the salt. And, since mollies are common community fish, the unneeded addition of salt can be hard on their tankmates.

Kissofthegorami

12-30-2005, 6:32 PM

Mollies are peaceful fish. Like any fish u can get the random male who can be a bully. But overall mollies get along with any fish that wont eat it. Ideally mollies do best with fish that alos like hard alkaline water but they are adaptable to water conditions. Mollies don't "school" but they are very gregarious fish who need the company of other mollies. You must have two females to every male. Great tank mates are guppies, platies, and swordtails.

Mollies DONT need salt. Its a myth that wont go away. Salt is pushed by the aquarium trade. Aquarium salt isn't even the kind of salt mollies would be found in, that would be marine salt. As I spoke of before, for a while the black mollies became a weaker species because of so much industry in breeding. So people found that the addition of salt would keep them alive longer and fight diseases and fungus. Really salt just covers up and delays the effects of poor water conditions. Mollies live very happily and for a long time with no salt. The salt myth stays because in the wild mollies are found in freshwater, brackish, and even open ocean. They have developed this adaption because they live in areas of frequent flooding and often get swept out into the ocean. You can adapt your mollies to full saltwater and keep them in a reef tank. Mollies main habitat though is freshwater. If anything abou adding salt, mollies benefit from the added hardness so marine salt or cichlid salt would be much more benefitial to add than aquarium salt. Adding aquarium salt is basically useless.

fIsHy13

12-31-2005, 12:01 PM

fIsHy13

12-31-2005, 12:12 PM

Oh, and i'm blaming you too, KissofTheGorami. I'm really sorry but if you were in my position, who would you believe? The experts who have been in the fish hobby for ages, or just someone who posts messages in Aquaria Central? You probaly know a lot more about fish than me, but I'm telling you, mollies must do better with a little salt if the experts say!

Do you know what? My mollies have been more lively since I added salt, so they're living proof that mollies like salt!

reiverix

12-31-2005, 12:16 PM

Anything you do to your tank is your responsibility whether the advice comes from the internet, LFS, books/magazines, etc.

But think about it. Do you honestly believe that adding salt (not marine salt) in any way duplicates the environment that fish live in? The salt myth is one of the most annoying things that creep up on the boards all too often.

fIsHy13

12-31-2005, 1:53 PM

Yes. They live in brackish water, which has SALT in it. Anyways, salt is renowned in the fish hobby for healing sick fish, so what harm can be done? I will only stop using salt in my molly tank if you can give at least 1 excuse why it is bad for the fish, and it must be a good exuse!

reiverix

12-31-2005, 2:07 PM

There is far more to brackish water than just salt. This is not an excuse. It's a fact. If you feel the need to add salt for disease prevention, perhaps you should take a look at your water quality instead.

fIsHy13

12-31-2005, 2:13 PM

What is Brackish water then? Look, all I am saying is that I have read that mollies do best in slightly salted water. I'm not saying your wrong or that I'm right. I will do some more research on it, I've already done tons of research on it and that is what it always comes up with, so who am I to believe?

fIsHy13

12-31-2005, 2:29 PM

Hahaha! I have just been on www.FishDoc.net and it says to put a little salt in an molly aquarium! He said they thrive in low salinity levels becuase they are fish who live off the Gulf Coast in South America, common in esturies. Don't tell me you don't believe him! He's an expert, for god's sake! He even said that before he kept his mollies in low salinity water they hadn't lived for too long, but when he started adding salt they lived for 5 years!

HAHAHA! I LOVE PROVING EVERYBODY RIGHT! :laugh: ;) :D :mad2:

denali1234

12-31-2005, 2:35 PM

Ummm...........there is a lot of people here that know their stuff as well. You can learn a lot if you listen. I have kept Mollies for sometime with no salt. I did at first, but read on this forum that it was unneccessary, so I stopped. My mollies thrive.
They are your fish, and you do what you think is best to keep them in the best care. People were only offering advice.........take or don't.

fIsHy13

12-31-2005, 2:37 PM

You're not replying back because you know I've won this whole 'salt and mollies' battle!

fIsHy13

12-31-2005, 2:40 PM

Yes, but what are the side effects of using salt? Whst actually happens to the fish that is bad? Do they get ill? If so, what illness?

You are not giving me valid reasons for not using salt.

jennypenny

12-31-2005, 3:18 PM

I just hope that no one is adding and removing salt over this discussion. (what ever you choose to believe, keep the level constant.) Too much or quick changes in salt level can quickly dehydrate your fish.

Anywho I like livebrears with mollies, but they might all have hybrid babies together. I also think that just different types of mollies look nicely together. All of the diferent color and fin varities can make for a beautiful selection. PLus they can all be happy in the smame conditions.

reiverix

12-31-2005, 3:34 PM

Well I'm not looking at this as a battle and find it unfortunate that you are treating this as some kind of petty game.

To create brackish water (which is anything above a SG of 0 and below that of natural sea water at around 1.024) you need to use a real marine salt mix. Sodium chloride is just one ingredient. There's around 70 elements found in sea water, such as high quantities of calcium and magnesium, with traces of other elements like strontium.

You most definately are not creating a brackish tank and neither is the FishDoc guy. I keep a brackish tank myself, not with mollies though. I'd keep mollies in FW (no salt added) unless I knew they were wild caught from a brackish environment.

Anyway you keep believing what you want about your precious does-it-all-aquarium-salt. It's become increasingly obvious that everyone who is not on this forum is an expert :duh:

Galaxie

12-31-2005, 3:35 PM

Fishy, don't you have a couple other threads about your mollies being sick?
If I were you, I'd wait a while to stock new fish. If you have an internal parasite it is possible it can spread slowly to all of your fish. Are you treating for whatever is killing your mollies?

A good amount of salt to add for most livebearers is 1 tablespoon per 5 gallons. At that quantity, it does nothing bad nor beneficial and the local dealer has your money, so everyone is happy.

fIsHy13

12-31-2005, 3:52 PM

Thanx, Galaxie, that's all I wanted to hear. I just wanted to know if salt harmed fish but nobody would tell me. Your question, am I treating the fish? Well I have decided to humanley euthanise 'SweetPea' as I like to call her, bacuse her condition is probaly too far in to be treated. I believe it was an interbal infection , yes, becuase there were no pysical signs of illness on her body. How do I go about treating all of the tank that might have got infected to? Please help!

Galaxie

12-31-2005, 4:26 PM

Ok, check this out. My 20g livebearer tank had a rough beginning. I started with mollies, but they slowly died... like one per month. I introduced swordtails, but had the same problem. The dying fish exhibited no external signs of disease other than gradually getting skinny, then on their last days they began to swim psychotically. (This is where I had to learn the humane euthenasia vodka tonic technique ....don't mean to be funny, but with rrkks's explanation I think I'll favor the cold water method next time.) Anyhow, with no external signs, I did "not" treat for any random disease. After extensive studying and a few trips to the library (fyi, the library, like many internet article contains a wealth of outdated information on aquaria), I figured an internal parasite would be the only thing that could attack my fish in this manner, so I changed the fish food to Jungle brand "anti-internal parasite" / laced with metronidazole and also began treating the tank with "hole-N-head" guard by Jungle also. This HITH Guard also has metronidazole as an active ingredient so seemed a good choice. At the same time, I plumbed my U/V sterilizer into the output of my ViaAqua 265. I figure if the metronidazole doesn't get the parasites (or whatever) then a terminal suntan would finish the job. I'm about 4 months behind this treatment and haven't had any more fish fatalities. I've added guppies who have multiplied, and the green swordtails have also multiplied. There are currently 2 red and 2 marigold swords surviving whose parents were lost to the parasite. Throughout all this, the single ottocinclus cat has survived. 3 months ago I stopped adding salt....which I had in from the beginning. All salt seemed to do was create a nasty buildup on the glass and other parts which was a pain in the butt to clean.

(fyi, I've never tested for water hardness, but based on the white build-up on my shower curtain and other plumbing fixtures, I'm guessing my water is plenty hard for livebearer happiness ....without salt.)

fIsHy13

12-31-2005, 5:19 PM

Ok. I'm still really sad about having to kill 'SweetPea' though...see my other thread you have replied to.

It is so upsetting to have to euthanise any fish, but balloon mollies are just too cute. I hope I did it right and having caused her too much suffering. She was only really young as well...oh just listen to me! I sound like i'm talking about a pet dog that has died! I'm going to check in the freezer now... :eek:

Kissofthegorami

01-01-2006, 3:17 PM

Fishy... The mollies in the wild that live in salt water environments live in water with marine salts and marine minerals. The salt you are adding... generl aquarium salt is just table salt without the anticaking agents and iodine. I have kept mollies my whole life. They live in freshwater. They live outside in a pond in the summer and come inside the rest of the year in freshwater. No one here is saying that mollies cannot live in salty conditions. I said that mollies can live fine in fresh, brackish, or even FULL salt water. But the point of all this is that salt is NOT needed for mollies. And if you want to keep mollies with other fish that do not like salt, then its best to not add salt. And its doubtful that salt has much benefit to mollies. Salt acts as a medicine for fish because it irritates their skin. This irritation causes increased mucus/slimecoat production that can relieve some parasites, fungus, sores. But most of us do not recommend adding salt on a permanent basis because its not needed all the time. SO yea mollies can live in brackish water AND they can live just fine in freshwater with no salt added. A lot of those sites contain many of the myths real aquarists are trying to dispell. The aquarium trade has been trying to get everyone to think they need to purchase expensive aquarium salt for so long that everyone began to take it as a fact. But its not.

fIsHy13

01-02-2006, 2:30 PM

Ok, I will discountinue using salt, but I'm still not entirely convinced...I mean, is it really soooo bad for the fish?

onepawnup

01-03-2006, 1:32 AM

fishy
you are a real classy guy, you ask for peoples advice and then berate them when they give it to you. if you trust so much in your lfs then by all means do what they say but dont be such a jerk to people trying to help you

Onepawnup

onepawnup

01-03-2006, 1:35 AM

sorry GAL

sumthin fishy

01-03-2006, 3:49 PM

Oh. That is so strange because I have read tons of articles on the internet urging people to add salt. When I brought the mollies it even had a notice next to the tank saying that all mollies do well with a little salt in their water. The aquatics shop itself is the place I always go to get my fish stuff, and the staff there always grill me about the size of my tank and whether or not I've got compatible tank mates before they allow me to buy any fish. Do you really think a good, proffessional aquatics store like that would make a mistake about something? I will remove the salt in my next water change, but if the mollies get ill i'm blaming YOU, Orion Girl!

Have you even keot mollies before? Because you can't go around claiming stuff that you know nothing about.
Are these the same experts who told you the goldfish and mollies would be compatable? You should look up a chemichal analysis of brackish water, you will find that there is much more to it than simple NaCl.

I could not find the article you tried to link but in an answer to question on a sick molly, docfish mentioned the use of SEA SALT, not sodium chloride.

I wish I could find the article you are talking about, there is much more to finding a scientific conclusion than a single variable and no controll group. perhaps the addition of salt replicated hard water (as suguested by OG) and the origional water was simply not hard enough? I would watch who you call experts, experienced fishkeepers, some of which make this thier life passion, or the guy at the fishstore trying to make a buck.

UncaBret

01-03-2006, 8:44 PM

I must say I wholeheartedly agree with onepawnup. And there are others on this forum who act that way (N&T). If they were my kids, I'd smack'em on the ... and send'em to bed without supper!

GoldfishCrazy11

01-04-2006, 7:08 PM

Okay, I honestly didn't read all of the replies, but I will say mollies are warm water tropical fish. They prefer brackish water, though fancy ones generally are raised in freshwater. The like 75-80 d. F.

Goldfish are COOLwater fish, and need 20-35 gallons each (depending on type). They grow large and messy (8-12 inches depending on type).

fIsHy13

01-06-2006, 10:48 AM

Goldfish Crazy,

I already know that...that discussion is old. I moved my goldfish out ages ago, but thanks for the advice anyway...

fIsHy13

01-06-2006, 11:00 AM

Onespawnup I do agree with what you are saying- I can be a 'jerk' sometimes, but I wouldn't use that word as I'm not American. ***** sounds better.
Anyways, I suppose i'm sorry for acting like a *****. But a i'm teenager and teenagers can be the meanest things in the world! :Angel:

TYPO

01-06-2006, 11:56 AM

Wow, I'm sorry, i just joined this. That last post of your's "fishy13" was the most asinine, ridiculous, pathetic excuse I have ever heard.
I know for a fact that there are quite a few teenagers, but I guess most of them are mature and wise enough to act like a civilized person.

This DOESN'T need to turn into a battle. Really, it's take the advice or leave it. People here generally post from their experiance. It's up to YOU, not them, to decide who to "believe". It isn't a matter of believing, it's a matter of the context to use. The research is saying, "Add some salt." We are saying, "Don't add AQUARIUM salt. If anything, use a bit of marine salt, as that's what the 'research' is referring to." You are saying, "You, forum people, are wrong."

Please read this article: http://badmanstropicalfish.com/articles/article5.html

Do you know what an estuary is? "Regions of interaction between rivers and nearshore ocean waters, where tidal action and river flow create a mixing of fresh water and saltwater. These areas may include bays, mouths of rivers, salt marshes, and lagoons. These brackish water ecosystems shelter and feed marine life, birds, and wildlife." That is what an estuary is.

Back to the article: Adding aquarium salt would do nothing to replicate the molly's natural habitat. Also, with any additional 'research' you do, this is what you need to search. Hey, to make your life easier, I'll do the searching for you, all you have to do is look at the link.
This one searches for "black molly sea salt":
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&safe=off&q=black+molly+sea+salt&btnG=Search
That will give you a lot of results for: black mollies and sea salt. There are a lot of them. You don't even have to read the websites! The article clips that google shows you is enough.

This one does a search for "black molly marine salt"
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&safe=off&q=black+molly+marine+salt&btnG=Search
I did that to cover articles that used 'marine' instead of the word 'sea'.

I really do hope this enlightens you to your quite immature deffensive attitude. And to that no, we aren't wrong, and no, you aren't right. You were just reading articles, and taking the word 'salt' out of context.

~typo

TYPO

01-06-2006, 11:59 AM

P.S. Before you ask, yes, I had black mollies. Just 2, I wasn't aware of the whole 'salt vs. mollies war.' They did fine in fresh water, though, when I set up a brackish tank, they are going in there. Black mollies and bumble bee gobies.
When I say 'brackish', I mean I'm adding marine salt. :O Imagine!

And back to the original question. Black mollies can be community fish. They enjoy the company of other fish that require similiar conditions. If you bought your mollies at a store like petsmart, you should be able to find tankmates around the same area. They genearlly try to keep compatible fish around the same area.

Prinny

01-06-2006, 10:39 PM

Fishy, i've read your other post, have you thought about taking up a different hobby, one more suited to your maturity and intelligence level? How about breaking rocks with your head, or running in front of semi trucks on the highway?

fIsHy13

01-07-2006, 5:43 AM

No thanks. Everyone's got to start out on a hobby, haven't they? I think fish keeping can be for anyone, no matter there intelligence level. Think about, when ever you start out on a new hobby, it's like learning a totally different launguage. You have to learn all over again.

Oh, and that person who was talking about black mollies (cant remember your name) I odn't even keep black mollies! I thought I posted a thread saying what mollies I kept, but you must not of read it or something...

Also, don't you think there's two sides to every story? I do. The people who wrote the aricles, who you say know nothing, are probaly thinking the same about you. Look, I'm done with this discussion. It's gone on too long.

Prinny

01-07-2006, 12:07 PM

Uhh... no actually not, whenever take up a hobby i make sure it's conveniently in one of my two languages, and that i can get my head around it before i take it up. And fIsHy13, i'm not sure if you knwo this, but BLACK mollies and SAILFIN mollies and BALLOON mollies are the same thing. Please save the lives of any fish you may own in the future and either do some research or quit the hobby

TYPO

01-07-2006, 12:31 PM

I think fish keeping can be for anyone, no matter there intelligence level.
First off.. No.. nononono. Fish keeping is NOT for everyone. If you can't do your research properly, then don't keep fish. If you can't act mature enough in a forum to get people on your side, or be wise enough to say, 'sorry guys, I was wrong,' then you shouldn't be here. If you can't learn to take advice from countless people who know what they are doing... then go jump into the Pacific Ocean.

Oh, and that person who was talking about black mollies (cant remember your name) I odn't even keep black mollies! I thought I posted a thread saying what mollies I kept, but you must not of read it or something...
Honestly, I don't feel like searching through your innumerable newbie posts, ones that are so filled with billigerent stupid, to find out what molly's you had. From what I could tell from this post, you had black mollies. Well, I *thought* you had them. Turns out I was wrong, I'm sorry.

Also, don't you think there's two sides to every story? I do. The people who wrote the aricles, who you say know nothing, are probaly thinking the same about you.
First off, yes there are at least one sides to every story.
Secondly, did I say they knew nothing? No, I don't believe I typed anything of the sort. I said YOU were taking it all out of context.
Thirdly, I doubt anyone of those authors knows that I'm "saying they know nothing" and I actually doubt they even know I exist. Same for you.

Look, I'm done with this discussion. It's gone on too long.
I believe it has. Your stubborness and unwillingness to listen to people without having some trite, snotty remark proves that you are not fit to own animals, no matter how 'primative' they are.
Really, I'm just beginning to get a grasp of all the wonderous things fishkeeping has to offer, but you... you'd refuse to accept any view other than yours.

If you truely believe this thread has gone on too long, don't respond. We don't want to hear it.
I just wanted to give a closing argument and some last words to you.

Have a very nice life.
~typo

RockabillyChick

01-07-2006, 12:49 PM

wow. i was a teenager only a few years ago (i'm 20) and i dont EVER remember acting like a snotty, know-it-all brat.

if your LFS is so on the ball and knows everything there is to know about fish, they why are you here asking for our advice, then throwing a hissy fit when we give contradicting advice? why don't you just listen to your LFS, since they're such omnipotent masters of fish knowledge, and leave us alone, since you obviously dont want to listen to the experts right here, who don't have anything to sell to you, who aren't trying to get money out of you, and who have nothing to gain by lying to you, like your LFS does.