OERUGF for the planted tank?

Dragon Queen

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Feb 17, 2005
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Anyone done one of these for the purpose of rooted plants with no fish diggers? Would just the filter floss and a thinner plastic mesh on it work for the roots. Any other ideas-suggestions?
Sorry RTR, but that eggcrate stuff is to darn thick when you don't have diggers.
 
The egg crate has two functions. First to block digging sufficient to clear the plate when diggers are present, obviously. But it it also serves to protect the bonded floss from excessive compression from the weight of the overlaid substrate. Compressed floss does not flow for beans; it acts like a dirty firter pad, even when it is clean.

I have omitted the floss more often than I have omited the egg crate myself - especially in planted RFUG where the biological load on the filter is not as not as great as in unplanted tanks, and since the substrate is deeper than in unplanted I figured it would serve the purpose. Those tanks have not had full lifespan trial finished yet.

The original idea leading to OERFUG was just floss with substrate on top, but in those early trials it did not last very long, a few years. Those were not planted. I use 10 year minimun setup life for my standard on everything.

And yes, eggcrate is non-trivial thickness, no argument at all there.
 
Do anyone have any ideas or methods to slow the roots from getting thru the UG plate.
Anyone heard of Geotex fabric that they use in french drains?
 
MY experience so far is that you will not stop plant roots from getting trough anything pourous. It's about like trying to keep an oak tree from growing roots through the basement wall. As soon as there is a crack the roots go through.
Mine grow through the filter pad and fiberglass screens of my OERFUG constantly. I even had Val roots grow through and then start a new plant under my plates. The bottom of that tank is above two others and evidently picked up enough light to let it grow for a few weeks.

If you plan to plant an RFUG (I do like them very much) just accept the fact that roots will grow through the plates. I have yet to see any build-up issue, or plant issue from this. I have only been running these systems with plants for a little under two years though so the long term test is far from done.

I frequently have to break roots to remove plants and have not had any transplanting issues from this either. It seems the plants most likely to grow through are also the hardy easy to transplant varieties. My chain swords do not grow through. my crypts, vals and occasionally larger sword grow through frequently.
dave
 
So there is nothing that you can do to slow the roots progress thru the ug plate than moving them every few months. Just a slow down is what I am looking for not a stop. From moving plants every 3 months to about once a year?
 
There are mother plants of val and crypts in my original OERFUG planted tank which have never been moved and likely will not ever be moved until the tank is finally broken down somewhere beyond ten to fifteen years old. I have had no issues from this, nor do I anticipate any in the future. Don't look for problems where there are not any. This is not bonsai, it is very simple aquatic gardening. It may eventually point out a few more or the many myths associated with the use of UG in tanks as being just that, but until that time, consider the doomsday scenarios of planted tanks and RFUG at least to be unproven pipedreams quoted without data by folks with absolutely no first-hand experience, or at least no educated experience.

The forums are full of folks citing horrible outcomes on things about which they know little or nothing, in all honesty just repeating what they in turn have read. The fact that they heard no original source facts is trivial to them. I have spent many, many hours over quite a few years researching UG and RFUG on the web and in print. I have never, repeat never, found any original material where the individual used and maintained RFUG properly and had issues from plant roots. But you can find negative comments by the page full, all second-hand and unconfirmed "information". Part of my rep of being nasty comes from my asking frequenty how this "info" is known - I get nothing first-hand and factual from that - basically just that "everybody knows that". My response to such remarks would be obscene, so I drop it.

When plants are moved in any substrate, and certainly still if not more so when equipment is incorporated in that substrate ( heater cables or UG plates with or without bonded floss), there are broken roots and rootlets left behind. Ditto when plants in the garden are moved. This is normal. So long as the substrate does not become excessively organic (which can and does happen over years with conventional substrates in aquatic gardening if not compensated by vacuuming well when clumps of plants are lifted and divided, and can potentially occur almost as well with planted RFUG/OERFUG*), there is not going to be any issue.

*IMHO & IME, RFUG/OERFUG are less likely to become overly organic as so much of the soluble breakdown product is flushed from the substrate by the upward flow through it. It does not stay in place in the substrate mulm as it does in conventional substrates. Just as RFUG substrates do not become nitrate reservoirs as do conventional substrates (unplanted) in ordinary FO tanks, similarly they do not become organic material reservoirs as do undisturbed planted substrates.

HTH
 
RTR, please do consider writing an article on RUGFs. It would be a great place to point people to when the negative comments come out or to those that are just confused. I certainly was when I started as I alway thought you needed to rip them out of tanks every few months to clean up stuff. I have since learned how false that is.
 
But the article cited is not comprehnsive on planted RFUG - that is still too new to me to be definitive. I like a lot more personal experiece with something before I write it up fully - multiple tanks for multiple years. The original RFUG article was 12 years and many tanks after the first trials of what was the final format I use, the alternate bio-only canister article close to the same. I have a hard time convincing myself and being sure that I have seen the pitfalls. I'll talk about variant techniques on the boards, but real writeups require a lot more data for me to commit them to the public. We do not have peer review in this hobby, so I have to shoot down my own work and clear up any issues before I publish it.

We got burned on fishless cycling - several of us jumped onto Chirs Cow/Nomad's technique and tested it and then started pushing it on the Web. Then it bit us in the rear - none of us had soft water, and we did not realize the low KH hazard. I still fret about that. It should have been tested before release, and we missed it.
 
RTR said:
We got burned on fishless cycling - several of us jumped onto Chirs Cow/Nomad's technique and tested it and then started pushing it on the Web. Then it bit us in the rear - none of us had soft water, and we did not realize the low KH hazard. I still fret about that. It should have been tested before release, and we missed it.


I missed the low KH / fishless cycling connection. Anyone have a link or a brief summary?
 
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