Should i stoop to chemicals?

[SteveInEssex]

I am about 4 weeks through my cycling period on my new tank. As to be expected since the start I have had ammonia and nitrite levels. I have been doing 25%-30% water changes every two days and have plenty of filtration. I have been keeping both of my filters maintained and cleaned properly. The problem is....!!!! that inside the last two days my nitrite levels have increased from 0.25ppm to about 5.0ppm. i understand that during the cycling period this can happen and it can even soar as high as 10ppm. I now have to make a decision, shall I keep up the water changes and let it run its course, or shall I add chemicals to help aid me in reducing nitrite levels etc. The reason I ask is that my tank is fairly heavily stocked (this was forced upon me) and I really don't want to loose fish that I have had a long time. Does adding salt reduce how toxic the nitrite are to my fish? Can someone please advise on the best way to do things?

[slipknottin]

water changes.

chemicals will only temporarily absorb nitrites and ammonia, as soon as their removed ammonia and nitrite will go back up to what they were previously.

HTH

[SteveInEssex]

But...this may give me the time I need for my cycling to complete. Right? If I use chemical until my bacteria has developed enough then when I stop using chemicals my bacteria should start to do their job?

[slipknottin]

bacteria feed off ammonia and nitrites.

if you reduce the amount of ammonia and nitrites, you directly reduce the amount of bacteria you will have.

[JamisonBWolsh]

PLease dont add any chemicals. The natural process will get you through the cycle eventually.

[sChArF]

Why are you cleaning anything? You Might be killing all of the bacteria in the tank that is why it is not working for you.

[morleyz]

The whole of the bacteria colony will only grow as large as the amount of "food" being produced. If you chemically treat the ammonia and nitrite, you'll only experience another cycle when they've run their course. Keep in mind that your bio-load isn't changing, you just need your bio-filter to catch up. I guess it comes down to whether 10 mini-cycles would be better than 1 big cycle...can't say if I know what would be better.

EDIT: Wholly cripes...just read what everyone else said 8).

[SteveInEssex]

I am not a fan of chemicals and I don't want to use them, but I am a little concerned for my fish. It is not an ideal situation, but it is something I have to deal with, I have plenty of large fish producing plenty of waste, how dangerous are the nitrites I have to them? These are fish I have had for years, including one that is 12 years old. I understand peoples opinions on chemicals as i feel the same, but when would you get worried about your fish?

[slipknottin]

water changes are the only remedy.

if you use ammonia or nitrite absorber chemicals the levels will still peak out after the chems have run their course.

Your fish are going to experience the peak with or without chems. the only way to make it less stressful is by doing water changes.

[SteveInEssex]

Its ok, I am not cleaning my bacteria away, just replacing filter pads when they need to be replaced to keep excess crap away from my bacteria.

[morleyz]

You might want to just clean your filter pads in used tank water rather than replacing them...they'll have a lot of good bateria on them. Especially until you are fully cycled...

[SteveInEssex]

Ok people, thanks for the advice i will leave it be. Can i increase the amount of water I am changing? Or will this do more harm than good? I am currently taking out 25-30%, could I increase to 40-45%? Or not?

[sChArF]

Keep in mind I don’t pay any attention to all of the numbers in general. And I have had success with tons tanks.
3 questions 1 answer

What size of tank?
What kind of filters?
What kind of fish in question?

I would recommend that you leave the filters and the gravel alone. Also Depending on your bioload I would do 1- 3 50% water changes a month. Just like you would due after it is cycled

[slipknottin]

you can most certainly increase the amount of water your changing.

[SteveInEssex]

Ok, thanks
I will increase my water changes and will maybe make them everyday.

My tank is 90 UK Gallons, I have an internal Juwel two stage filtration system, that just uses sponges, and a secondary Eheim professional 2206. Fish wise i will just list a few:

Large sailfin Plec 13-14 inches approx
2 Large Banded Leporinus 11 and 9 inches approx
2 Melanochromis Ciclids
Silver Shark
RTB Shark
Clown Loach
Banded Loach
etc etc.....

[sChArF]

Those fish should be fine.

When i cycle a tank i just leave it runing untill i notice something is going on. fish not happy, plants changeing color, algea.
then i would do a weekly water change of like 50%

just to help everthing thru.

Good luck

[SteveInEssex]

i dont keep any plants. Would plants help the cycling process significantly??? My fish have never got on with plants and just rip them up

[achu]

How often are you feeding your fish?

You might want to cut back on frequency and/or amount of their feedings. It'll give your bacterial colonies a chance to catch up. The more food you put in, the more waste is generated, and the more stressed your fish will be until the cycle completes for a given rate of waste production.

[sChArF]

Good point achu. You might want to feed every second day. and make sure you are not over feeding

[TnCgal]

All good points ! :)

SIE, you will want to refrain from using chemicals in your water for a reason that hasn't yet been brought up yet and I wanted to interject.

Chemical additives may "fix" a problem temporarily, but almost always will cause other problems by wreaking further havoc on your water chemistry. You may add the chemicals a few times and then find that you have a voraceous algae outbreak for instance.

One mistake that newbies/beginners make over and over again (and I did this myself, so I know !) is that they look for ways to short-cut or bypass altogether the cycling process. Impossible. You MUST go thru it in order to have healthy fish. The best solution for stress on fish due to ammonia/nitrIte toxicity is continuous water changes. Never underestimate the power of a water change ! It can cure SO many ailments you won't even need to think about chemicals in most cases. Strive for keeping your water as chemical-free as possible. Your fish will thank you. :)

Achu makes a good point about cutting back on feeding. This is a tried and true approach to cycling woes. There is also nothing wrong with vacuuming the substrate, feel free to vacuum away ! The harmful bacterial growth that results from accumulation of waste in the water will do greater harm to your fish than vacuuming it.

You can easily increase your water changes to 40-50%, every day or even every other day. Your nitrIte levels will fall on their own ... you just have to let nature take its course. It WILL happen.

I'm moving this thread over to the Newbie forum so that we can stay in touch with your situation and so that your thread doesn't get lost in the more advanced-type questions. :)

[AnthonyNYC]

I just went through the same thing. Here is what I did.

My tank was over 3 weeks old (55gal) and still the ammonia levels were high.

I have a fluval 404 and an undergravel filter with 2 402's. I figured the undergravel was perfect for bio.

Anyway, I was replacing 25% of the water every 2 days. Turns out that I was overfeeding also.

I went to the local petstore and inquried about the cloudy water as well as the high ammonia levels. They advised the same thing, that I needed to let the tank "level off" I even introduced some cheap starter fish for one week.

They guy behind the counter mentioned this bottle of bacteria that they have. I think it is concentrated bacteria lol.

Anyway, I buy the **** thing since I am desperate. It was very clear. I added 10capfuls to the tank and in 2 days all was ok. The levels dropped and the water is crystal clear.

It has been that way for about 4 days now.

I dont know if anyone ever heard of bottled bacteria but this is what worked for me.

Anthony

[TnCgal]

Hi, Anthony !

Yes, most of us have heard of that product, and there have been great debates here on the forum regarding their efficacy so I should tell you that to date, there has been no published documentation that bacteria in a bottle works on anything except separating your money from your wallet.

The bacteria necessary for the nitrification process cannot effectively be kept in a bottle on the shelf for months and then be effective by the time it hits your tank. They need a constant source of ammonia and oxygen in order to survive. :)

The fact that your water cleared at the same time that you used the bacteria in a bottle is really no more than a coincidence. Frequent water changes and time are the only two solutions for the cycling process. :cool:

EDIT:
Oops, so sorry ! I just realized you are new to the forum so let me welcome you to AquariaCentral, home of the fewest bacteria in a bottle users on the entire web ! :)

[wetmanNY]

Stevein Essex now that you've stepped up the water changes and you're just rinsing the filter media, not changing them, you might consider "re-seeding" the tank with another scooping of gravel off the very topmost surface (half inch) of an established disease-free tank. Use a square plastic bowl to scrape it up and remember the nitrifiers are on the very surface of the substrate only. The more scrapings you can get the better. Rinse it gently with tank water (for tidiness sake only) and spread it all over the tank's present gravel.

The reason is that the nitrite-metabolising bacteria seem to be suppressed as long as there is some ammonia in the water.

You aren't stirring up your gravel unnecessarily, are you? Nitrifiers are well stuck to their substrate, but they need lots of oxygen and get set back if buried during bouts of "vacuuming."

Nitrite can permanently damage gills. The amount of salt already in your water is probably sufficient to minimize nitrite absorption. Nitrite-stressed fishes are gasping for oxygen and hang their heads up or down and avoid moving...

Yes plants would help. Still would, though your fish will eat them if you don't provide some spinach along with the duckweed. Planted tanks rarely have these "cycling" struggles.

HTH!

[SteveInEssex]

Thanks for all your help everyone. Firstly, I do not have gravel, I use sand. I vacuum the bottom of the tank every time i do a water change. I have just completed a 50% water change, but have found that my nitrite levels are still as high as before hand. Should I not see an initial reduction in nitrite levels straight after a water change?? Even if it goes back up after. Also whilst we are on the subject, can I add some aquarium salt to de-toxify the nitrite? Or would you not bother?

[TnCgal]

Many people will tell you that you can add some salt, but the only time I recommend salt is for the treatment of ich, otherwise, I just find it unnecessary... but everyone has a different viewpoint about salt use.

You probably "won't" see much of a change in the nitrIte levels of your tank after a water change, and frankly, you wouldn't want to. You neeeeeed your nitrItes ! :) I emphasize that, because as I said, beginners to the hobby are very anxious to bypass the nitrogen cycle - but believe me it is essential and you will want those nitrItes present in order to make for a healthy tank later. I understand, I did everything possible too to speed things up when I was a beginner but I found that everything I did to eliminate the ammonia/nitrIte levels only prolonged the entire process. :(

What you are accomplishing by doing the water changes is keeping your fish comfortable during this process and to decrease your risk of fish loss !

The conversion of nitrIte to nitrAte is the longest part of the cycle, so be prepared to wait it out. The good news is, that once it starts to kick into gear, you will see your nitrItes totally gone in a matter of a couple of days ... once it falls it falls QUICK. Just keep an eye on your parameters and keep up with the water changes.

"Time and water changes... time and water changes... time and water changes.... "

Keep repeating that to yourself and you will be fine ! :)

[Anton Wernher]

Agreed with tnCgal. I believe wetmaNY has a good explaination as to why salt has no business in a FW aquarium at www.skepticalaquariast.com

[SteveInEssex]

I am not trying to bypass the cycle or even make it shorter!!! I just want to keep my fish alive. Thanks for all your help and for the next couple of weeks I will stick to regular water changes. If I have any other adverse affects I will be back on here asking more questions lol. Suppose thats the end of this thread!!!

Thanks everyone