lighting upgrade: watts/gal question (and other various questions)

[CrohnieBoy]

Hi all.

I want to start keeping live plants in my tank. I need to upgrade the lighting. Iwas wondering ow many watts/gallon I should have.

The basic specs:
20 gallon high
3 inches small rock
1 15 watt fresh/salt water bulb
1 power filter
hang on glass heater 2 78 degrees
4 white clouds currently, should be getting a pleco tonight
My Nitrites, Ammonia and Nitrates are 0
My pH is 7.4
my GH is 4 degrees



I am thinking about one of the 3 following lighting combos:
1.) one 36 watt PC and one 55 watt PC (4.55 watts/gal)
2.) two 36 watt PC's (3.6 watts/gal)
3.) two 55 watt PC's (5.5 watts/gal)


Also, any suggestions on CHEAP CO2 solutions (that won't accidentally explode or kill the fish.) I have heard that Flourish Excel would be a good thing to use if not supplimenting the CO2.

Any and all help would be appreciated. I am currently reading as many other posts as possible to find these answers.

'Tank' you all for reading this. ;)

[superjohnny]

That's a lot of light man. General rule-of-thumb for light is 2w/gallon. Maybe start with 1 36w PC until your tank gets stable and used to live plants.

That's what I'm doing at least... DIY CO2 should be sufficient as well for a 20g tank.

[fishaddict]

I actually have a little something to say about the flourish products. Actually my lfs did. A man there said to use the tablets that you stick under the gravel there instead of the liquid. Supposedly the liquid becomes available to all different kinds af algae while the tablets are more available to the plants. Im not sure if thats right but thats what he said and so im going to see if i can get the same results with the little tablets.

Ill let everyone know what happens in about a month when everything gets settled in.

[RTR]

Beyond 3W/gal, IMHO & IME, you will need pressurized CO2, or you will have problems controlling the tank.

I use the Flourish line - Flourish Liquid, Flourish Iron, Flourish Nitrogen, Flourish Excel (on tanks between 2.5 and 3.0 W/gal)), and Flourish tabs. The LFS person was confused or misunderstood on the liquid vs tablet forms - strongly rooted plants (swords, crypts, etc.) may take nutrients from the substrate freely; many stem plants seem to need water column traces and other nutrients. Many planted tank folk do all the nutrients in the water column without problems.

[slipknottin]

What are the dimensions of your tank?

20x10x24 or 24x12x16


watts per gallon is a fairly useless way to measure light avaliable to plants

[skeletalmachine]

I have 2.5 watts of light over an 18" deep 55 gal tank and so far there hasn't been any plant that won't grow even with no co2. In fact, some plants grow a little too fast for me to keep up. Perhaps you should think about what kind of plants you want to grow and if you really need so much lighting.

[CrohnieBoy]

Thank you all for your input.

slipknottin : the dimensions of the tank are 24x12x16

The reason I had such high wattage choices is that a friend with a reef tank was helping me. I now know that reefs take large amounts of light where it seems that you all agree that around 2 watts per gallon is good for freshwater. :)

The tank currently has some micro sword in it that isn't doing great. The LFS that I bought it from said it would be fine in low light (I currently have .75 watts/gal) Any success stories on this plant?

Last night I got some hornwort and Anacharis from a different LFS. They said these will do well in low light also. Any success stories on these also?

I also added a small Pleco to help the plants win the battle against the algae. ;)

[RTR]

Microsword is a high-light CO2 supplement plant IME.

[djlen]

Sounds like you're getting some incorrect information from your LFS. Micro swords are definitely not a low light plant. However you can grow them successfully under 2-2.5 watts per gallon, and having already gone nuts with lighting and suffered all the consequences, I need to tell you that it might be better for you to start with NO MORE than 2 watts per gallon. Over-lighting your tank can/will cause all kinds of problems. Until you learn about the plants your want to plant and their needs, nutrient-wise, start slow with two watts per gal. You can always add lighting if you want or need it.
Len

[Matak]

Slip: Maybe it is time to discard the old W/Gal formula. How about something like this: lumens/inch² as a function of plant depth? A chart, perhaps? Whatever rule of thumb is used, it should be simple, yet effective.

[NJ Devils Fan]

I just started with live plants. I was also told that the anacharis would do ok in the low light because I only had a 40 watt bulb. After a few days, they started to get brown. I got more lights the other day and now I am up to 120. It made a huge difference.

As for the CO2, I made a DiY injector, and it is very good. I just took a 2 liter bottle, filled it half way with warm water, put 4 tablespoons of sugar in and 1 teaspoon of yeast. Then, I drilled a hold in the cap, placed an air tube through it, sealed it with hot glue, then screwed it on the bottle tightly. It works very well.

[plantbrain]

If you plan on excel, you'll need 2x20 w reg FL lights.
anything more, and you'll need gas CO2.

Yes, you can get away with more etc but it will be tougher and tougher.

A single 55w is more than enough. I used DIY for a decade. I never had an "explosion" or any significant problems except not enough CO2 or remembering to change the brew.

Look into DIY, even if you feel not that competent, I assure you it's not rocket science.

Might want to see about getting a decent substrate also. Regular Home Depot bulbs work just as well as aquarium bulbs. Look for daylight bulbs and 5000K to 6500K bulbs if you go the 2x20w route. PC bulbs same color temps also.

Regards,
Tom Barr

[inxs]

djlen is right. If you add much more than 2wpg you will really need to start watching the CO2, NO3 ,P , K , Traces, waterchanges etc...

Your chances of getting an algaebloom will be much larger (GW, hairalgae, BBA , staghorn etc)

Next will come experimentation with not enough nutrients and plantproblems - lack of growth, yellow/brown leaves, smaller leaves etc.

I'm not trying to discourage you as you have got some good answers particularly from RTR , plantbrain and djlen. You need to reconcider what you are thinking about high light .

I did the same and things can go downhill VERY, VERY fast.

Go with 2wpg, DIY CO2 and flourite for substrate.

That will be a good start. For algae crew I would get a few amano shrimp (10-40) and 3-5 otocinclus

[Sumpin'fishy]

I also just started a 20H tank and have half Flourite Red, half Sand substrate. I am using the Nutrafin (Hagen) Natural Plant System which is glorified DIY CO2. I have had my tank running now for only 5 days and have already had some nice growth. I haven't even started adding fertilizers yet (waiting about a week to slowly start adding).

I bought a double FL fixture from Lowes for about $16 and for about $5 each got one "Natural Color" 5000k bulb, and one "Daylight Deluxe" 6500k bulb. The Natural Color bulb has a CRI of 92 (really nice for cheap bulbs!) I'm at exactly 2w/gal and my CO2 content in the water is about 18ppm (good number) and holding steady. I really like the looks of the amount of light and the colors. Plants seem to be doing well too, even though they are just barely getting settled. Many are budding or sending up new shoots. I'm growing the following plants:(several of each)

Microsorum pteropus (Java Fern)
Anubias nana
Cryptocoryne wendtii (both red and green varieties)
Cryptocoryne cordata
Ceratophyllum demersum (great for algae control)
Echinodorus bleheri (Amazon Sword)
Micranthemum umbrosum (Baby Tears)
Alternanthera ficoidea (Green Hedge)
??? (Mondo Grass) don't know correct name

I see no problems so far growing these plants. Many were doing worse at my LFS and are "perking up" now. It's not a really expensive setup either. I wanted to try planted tanks without all the "up front" money involved. 20H tank seems fine to me for now! Enjoy it, and don't go crazy on the lights.

[wojo93]

To calculate the wattage used by Takashi Amano in his various tanks, they came up with the following formula (http://www.fitchfamily.com/lighting.html) :

Watts = 22.65 x Gallons ^ 0.46

If you follow the link.. you get the theory behind it. I get a kick out of the research that was involved in this calculation.

For a 20 gallon tank they suggest approximately 90 watts or 4.5 watts/gallon.


I have 80 in mine as I calculated approximately 4 gallons of space were being taken up by substrate/rocks/wood. High wattage requirements like glossostigma are doing well.

[tyella]

I'd like to see the r-square value for that equation! That data fits VERY nicely.



To calculate the wattage used by Takashi Amano in his various tanks, they came up with the following formula (http://www.fitchfamily.com/lighting.html) :

Watts = 22.65 x Gallons ^ 0.46

[Kasakato]

And I guess it is ok to post in something old because it is OVER A YEAR OLD?!

[Ems]

Kas chill.
These poll threads change everytime you refresh the main AC page.
You can post on a thread if you like as long as its open.
So don't freak.

[Kasakato]

Still

[Kasakato]

Edit: Didnt notice the homepage poll part. My bookmark goes stright to the forums.

[wojo93]

sorry bout that..
caught the survey on the homepage.. didn't check the date.

sucks to be the FNG eh?

[Kasakato]

Its ok. Everyone mess up.