What do you say to people who?

[hurricanejedi]

This is sort of a rant. Sorry.

What do you say to people who have kept an aquarium a long time and claim their tetras did just fine in a goup of 2. Or other advice they give that dosen't make sense because they have experience and I obviously don't? And these are like close friends or family so you don't want to be rude.

My fiance's father has an aquarium that he's kept for years and years but he never really did any research on it, just sort of trial and error. Right now he has a goldfish in with tropical fish. Dosen't know anything about cycling, etc. So my fiance keeps questioning everything I do as not necessary, or pointless because his father never had problems (they have lost plenty of fish, just not those 2 tetra etc etc).

Yesterday we were in a pet store adn he says "why not get a knifefish?" I said well for one they get big, for another they won't get along with my fish. "But they are community." "Not really," I say. Typical conversation we have. Usually it leads to well my dad did that and they were fine... ugh. I will never be "in the know."

[earwick]

sounds pertty annoying, but what can you do :confused: :confused: :confused: . even if you tell him some people can be very stuborn *sigh*

[switchcats]

Geez, that sounds like my husband.

He's still trying to convince me to put another rtbs or rainbow into the 20G to replace the one that went into the 65! He don't get the fact that that was an emergency rescue, knowing that I had the right home for him waiting to be set up! Maybe I could stuff hubby into the 20G and see what he thinks! (well, first off he'd drown, because he don't know how to swim!)

And he thinks that I spend too much time on here and in books reading up on all these different things! But how are you going to learn if you don't ask those silly questions?

[hurricanejedi]

I'm glad I'm not the only one! I'm sure my fiance would love me to get a shark too. He made a comment last night that his friend had one with an angel and they kept each other in check and didn't both the other community fish in the tank. Luckily he won't push me getting one because they are labeled "semi-aggressive." Oh boy...

[YuccaPatrol]

Don't try to change stubborn people. Instead, let them see your good example and maybe they will learn from that.

I had 3 neons in an aquarium, they hung around together some, and they honestly lived very well that way. But when I added another 7 to create what is still a small school, the behavior of the school became MUCH more interesting.

Let the stubborn folks just see your beautiful school of tetras and then they will likely see the difference between what you have and what they have.

[hurricanejedi]

Thats what I'm hoping for, for the most part. I'm hoping that having done the fishless cycle will result in very few deaths. That might say something right there...

[Emg]

how about....instead of trying to explain why a knifefish wouldn't do well in your tank......you just tell him...."I don't like them" "???"

[Dangerdoll]

Don't try to change stubborn people. Instead, let them see your good example and maybe they will learn from that.

I had 3 neons in an aquarium, they hung around together some, and they honestly lived very well that way. But when I added another 7 to create what is still a small school, the behavior of the school became MUCH more interesting.

Let the stubborn folks just see your beautiful school of tetras and then they will likely see the difference between what you have and what they have.
Unfortunately, even setting the example and explaining as you show your great looking tank to someone who is of their own opinion, doesn't always work..... unless my sister and just more stubborn than most.

[hurricanejedi]

how about....instead of trying to explain why a knifefish wouldn't do well in your tank......you just tell him...."I don't like them" "???"
Haha yah except I think he knows that I love them :p: . Actually he was complaining that I don't like any fish he liked. Its not that I don't like them its that they don't fit what I want for compatibility. Though he looooves hatchet fish so I might look to scale down my guppies to 4 and rams to 2 in the far future and that *might* give me room for a small school of hatchets but thats not definite or anything (just playing with the idea). Because frankly they are cool lookin fish :) .

[Larissa]

My family thinks I'm a fish nerd. I can tell them what I've read and they just don't care. They'd rather stuff 6 large fish in a 5 1/2g tank because they "fit" or whatever. My mom doesn't have a fish tank but she really likes them. Still, she thinks I take this hobby way too seriously.

[hurricanejedi]

Actually another funny thing he did the other day - I commented on how sick the painted glass fish looked and I brought up how disgusted I was that this particular place stocked them. He of course wondered why. And when I told him that they were dye injected, his response what "how do you know?" and "I doubt someone actually painted or injected every individual fish." So when I got home I pulled up some sites that showed the process. The other day we saw some non-painted glass fish and he fell in love with them :) . They are school fish right? I actually don't know anything about them.

I wish I could find a picture of the valentine "I love you" parrot fish. I would like to show him how far people will go to actually sell fish.

[racingjason]

I would wait until he is sleeping and then cut off all his hair. Some people just can't be reasoned with. :laugh:

[Iguanamom]

Many fishes will tolerate conditions far from ideal and when they do, people think it's a success. Another thing I've noticed is that it's very hard to get people to think of fish as real animals, so when they have a set up that functions despite being badly set up, it's hard to make them understand. They will often treat fish or reptiles much more poorly than they would say a dog or cat. As an Iguanamom, I've had the same arguments with people about iguanas. People have no idea how particular they are in their needs or how fragile they can be. Some of the conditions I've heard of are quite deplorable.

Ultimately the only thing you can control is yourself and be an example of what's right.

[mandimoron]

My mom seems to think I take my fish way too seriously. She's of the opinion that they're only $2 each, and that my emotional attachment should be proprtional to monetary investment (she has similar thoughts regarding my $3 mice). The thing is, they may only be $2 fish, but they're my $2 fish, dammit, and I love them! My mom isn't really the worst of them out there, though. When she starts questioning my habits, I can win her over by explaining the scientific end of things. She always cedes arguments that involve science, since I'm the one with the university degree, and not her. ;)

Generally, though, when people try and tell me that I'm being anal about my fish care because such-and-such a terrible practice worked for them, I just say "Oh, wow! I wish I were brave enough to try that, but I think I'll just stick on the safe side, just to be sure." Usually that works, and by works I mean "shuts the other guy up". :P I don't make it my business to try and change the way other people do things unless they specifically ask for my advice, so if I can get them to quit arguing with me, that's good enough.

[Holly9937]

IMO all you can do is tell them the shortest and most simple to understand reasons for why there method isn't the best, being as nice and non-judgemental as possible, and hope they take the advice. I always get people who are amazed that some of my fish are 2-3 years old. "I thought they only lived a year or less :eek: ", well, sure if they are not cared for properly.....

[Brody]

I have a friend that has had a 60g cichlid tank up for about two years. He has NEVER done a water change. I mean NEVER. He just tops off with tap water. He loses a fish every few months, but chalks it up as "Natural". I tell him it's because of his high nitrates, among other things, but he's stubborn, and lazy. And to top it off, he added six 2" clown loaches recently. :mad:

I just grin and bear it, but I always look at his tank with disgust. He thinks since he layered the bottom with lava rock, that his UG has soooooo much bio that he does need to do water changes. :rant2:

[budrecki]

The problem is people think of fish as disposable pets similar to hamsters or gerbils. There are 50 angles in the tank, so why does the one bobbing at the surface gasping for air matter. Without getting too political/spiritual, a life is a life. The fact that it's 1 inch neon does not mean its life is of no value.

If you bring them into your home you are responsible for their lives. They can't feed themselves, mostly. They can't turn the lights on and off. They can't change their own water! They are completely reliant upon you, who choose to bring them home, for care. If your animal dies, it’s your fault. No on likes to hear that, but it's the truth. It’s called personal responsibly.

Sorry for the rant. I know I’ll get in trouble for it. :argue:
.

[carpediem]

The bottom line, IMO is that *real* aquarists who love the hobby understand that it is not about the fish simply surviving in the aquarium. We enjoy the process of actually making things so perfect for them that they *thrive* in the aquarium. There is a vast difference between fish that are vibrant, healthy, thriving, and possibly reproducing and those that are simply existing.

I enjoy water changes, I like to test check and tweak water chemistry, I enjoy the challenge of the more difficult to keep species. If I wanted a hobby that was just about looking at fish, I could hang pictures...

[hurricanejedi]

^^ Haha its ok I was ranting too. A friend told me that losing half your fish in a fishy cycle is better than doing a fishless cycle. Luckily I do have one good friend that keeps marine and fresh and she knows a lot about aquaria. So at least I now one person that gets it right :) .

[jtruswell]

By the same token, I think a lot of the problem is *some* at the staff at *some* pet stores. Take my Elenor (ropefish) for example. My fiance fell in love with her and had to bring her home. They told him she was full grown (at 12") and would live quite contentedly in a 20gal. Well, she might *survive* in a 20 gal but...sigh. But all is not lost for us, because my research proved to him otherwise and we were planning on getting larger tanks in the future, now it's just the nearer future (ie my cycling 55 and my future 100).

It is SO hard to convince people of these things when they are told my the 'expert' at the store that the conditions they are setting up are fine. Like Bettas...but we won't get in to that! ;)

Mind you, I probably shouldn't say TOO much. I have 1 of each of two species of tetras and a single bala (their buddies (for both the tetras and bala) died in a nitrite accident and I'm waiting to get the new tank ready before I set up proper schools. However my Columbian tetra schools with my Bosemanis...soo....I don't know. Sometimes fish adapt and make due and it's hard to convince others (sometimes even yourself!) that the books are right.

I guess you can only hope to lead by example? :) [And not show people you're tank when the ratios and what not are temporarily not set up right!! ;)]

Jade

[Larissa]

I thought that I might also point out that if someone has gotten bad info. from an LFS, it's very hard to convince them that you read the good info. on a fish forum...

[OrionGirl]

Simply put--I don't. I don't justify it. If someone wants my advice, I will gladly offer it to them. If someone questions why I maintain my tanks the way I do, I will explain it. But justify that? Nope. Not going to happen. It's my tank, and I do things the way I think they should be done, and while I'm always willing and interested in how other successful tanks are maintained, I have little to no interest in the opinions of someone who has deplorable practices (or, even better, those who have no tank of their own but just a friend/relative who may or may not share with this individual the maintenance they perform).

When someone asks me why I don't have this or that in my tank, I smile and suggest they start their own tank up, I'll gladly help.

[NotGumbel]

My M.O. is that if a person keeps asking for advice, then either refuses to follow it or tells me I don't know what I'm talking about, is to gracefully decline future advice out of respect for them. Depending on the person, perhaps kindly tell them why you're not going to get involved.

Disclaimer: the advice above was provided by a divorced 40 yr old male who lives alone except for his pets. :cool:

[MoparORnoCAR]

I think it is just part of the hobby. There are fishkeepers and people who just keep fish.


I cringe at the people asking for advice or giving advice my old fish store, 99% of the time I know they are wrong. But who am I to jump in and correct them. If they really want the right answers they need to do the research.

[RTR]

I rather like YuccaPatrol's response, but I confess my own responses tend to be rather more curt. NIMFT (= Not In My Fish Tanks) is standard for me. Sometimes if I'm being particualarly nasty, that is followed by "because I know better". But if you want to be more PC, just say that your are not comfortable with that (whatever that is in the particular case). Everybody is allowed personal preferences on breeds of dog/cats/horses, so why not on fish? If that keeps evreybody happy, or at least shuts them up, you are ahead of the game.

On the age of fish, wait until you have Tetras and Barbs pushing ten tears old, and catfish, puffers, loaches, or Cichlids pushing 20 or beyond that. Then you are allowed to smirk if you wish...

[jennypenny]

Off topic but...
It seems like everyone’s husband or fiancé is falling for some large fish. Why not just ask for the large new tank to go with it? :D

[carpediem]

Off topic but...
It seems like everyone’s husband or fiancé is falling for some large fish. Why not just ask for the large new tank to go with it? :D

Shoooo... That's a good one.

Maybe I found the perfect mate but my wife just likes to look at the fish. She's not into the hobby so she's also not into offering advice. Sometimes I go to her when I need a good DIY idea though. Of course, she also doesn't mind that I've turned our basement into an aquarium/pond business. Okay, I KNOW I found the perfect mate :p:

[hurricanejedi]

^^^WOW I didn't even know they lived that long. People are amazed when they have a fish that lives 2-4 years. I only hope I can be a good model :D . Even reading on here about ich outbreaks, old tank syndrome, pH crashes, among a myriad of other things it does sort of make you wonder how long you can go before things just happen.

There have been some good responses though :) . I might go with the not in my tank. Because after all it is my tank and I"ve worked hard getting it together and to the point of having fish. However, he is my fiance and I do want him to enjoy it to so I will be accomodating where I can. He wants snails so we are getting some nerites and malaysian trumpet snails. He has taken to my shrimp too.

I just called him to see if my rummy-nose had died yet (poor thing, the store dropped him on the floor and though he went back in the tank, I still think he made it into my fish bag). He was on deaths door this morning. Well evidently my fiance hasn't looked at my tank all day today :rolleyes: . I guess it really is MY tank because when I'm home I can't help but look at it.

[led_zeppelin]

This is sort of a rant. Sorry.

What do you say to people who have kept an aquarium a long time and claim their tetras did just fine in a goup of 2. Or other advice they give that dosen't make sense because they have experience and I obviously don't? And these are like close friends or family so you don't want to be rude.

My fiance's father has an aquarium that he's kept for years and years but he never really did any research on it, just sort of trial and error. Right now he has a goldfish in with tropical fish. Dosen't know anything about cycling, etc. So my fiance keeps questioning everything I do as not necessary, or pointless because his father never had problems (they have lost plenty of fish, just not those 2 tetra etc etc).

Yesterday we were in a pet store adn he says "why not get a knifefish?" I said well for one they get big, for another they won't get along with my fish. "But they are community." "Not really," I say. Typical conversation we have. Usually it leads to well my dad did that and they were fine... ugh. I will never be "in the know."



sounds like my dad except he no's about cycling and stocking sorta,but yesterday my uncle offerd me his 210 gallon that he hasnt used in years, and id like it but there is no room, my dad was like it would be nice cause you could stick all your fish in it, i said yeah if it was divided, because i have 2 puffers, 1 cichlid, 1 betta and whole bunch of catfish, gouramis, guppys. etc(peacful fish). He seems to think that there would be plenty of room and they would all get a long fine, well if you own a puffer or a cichlid you know a guppy, gouramis, or little cory cats wont last long, but he seems to think they would all get along fine. yeah right. And believe me my dad is one of the most experieced fish tank owners i know, about 10 years ago he had 14 saltwater tanks(all from 40-180 gal) going at once and has dumped at least $20,000 in his whole time of fishkeeping(25 years).o well

in fact i remember when he had his 120 gal show tank going and had about 6 other highly priced fish, surgeon, tangs, triger, and a small lionfish. he went to the LFS to finish his show setup ( with coral ) with a small cheap clownfish because he thought they were neat. well he dumped it straight in without making sure it had no disease and wiped out his entire tank, that sucked, plus this was back 15 years when there was no online ordering so saltwater fish were much more expensive at the LFS.

[Roan Art]

I guess I'm lucky because my husband had a reef tank back in the early 90s. It was a disasterous tank, everything died and so forth, but my FW tanks have renewed his interest and he's been nothing but supportive.

He DID make noises at bala sharks -- what is it with guys and balas? -- until I explained to him that balas are not something that I want with my fish. He still says he'd like some, but only in an appropriately sized tank in an appropriate school.

He's just finished building the corner stand for his new 92g reef tank that he will be starting in March. He plans on only having live rock for the first year. No other animals. He wants to see the critters that most people don't get to see and watch how they develop.

As for the original question, I don't bother trying to change peoples' minds. Once I have my tanks up for at least a year and my fish are at least that old, I'm going to set my Nikon up and start taking some really awesome pictures. If I need to "convince" someone that doens't want to listen, I'm just going to hand them a copy of a picture and say, "I CAN help you, you know. These tanks are a year old and so are the fish. Call me if you decide you'd like my help." That's it.

I fully intend to have my Boesemani and all my other rainbows for five-ten years. I want to be able to come here and say, "SEE! I told yah a Boesemani can get to 5" if it lives long enough!"

Then dance and taunt the non-believers :Angel:

Roan

[Penfan66]

Hey Hurricane, Just remember that it's your tank and no one else's opinion really matters. You know you're doing things the right way and there is always great satisfaction in that!

:)

[Emg]

The bottom line, IMO is that *real* aquarists who love the hobby understand that it is not about the fish simply surviving in the aquarium. We enjoy the process of actually making things so perfect for them that they *thrive* in the aquarium. There is a vast difference between fish that are vibrant, healthy, thriving, and possibly reproducing and those that are simply existing.

I enjoy water changes, I like to test check and tweak water chemistry, I enjoy the challenge of the more difficult to keep species. If I wanted a hobby that was just about looking at fish, I could hang pictures...


AMEN ! (oops..better not say that ! :D )


I would wait until he is sleeping and then cut off all his hair. Some people just can't be reasoned with. :laugh:

http://www.planetsmilies.com/smilies/happy/happy0168.gifhttp://www.planetsmilies.com/smilies/happy/happy0188.gif

[benda]

i get this attitude from my roomate and my girlfriend both. it's to the point now where i have to go buy testing kits secretly and hide them.

rather than getting support like "i noticed how much time/effort you put into this tank, i want you to know it looks nice." i get "why are you wasting your money on test kits?" or "just put a fish in and it will only grow to the size of the aquarium."

[Emg]

Silly ignoramouses....lol.......that's ok Benda, just give them a smile and shrug..that's about all you can do... :rolleyes:

[DaisyTattoo]

Most of you have significant others that complain about your hobby or tell you that they want something else or just keep out of it, but mine? He just buys fish and throws them in the tank when I'm at work....I came home to Irricdecent sharks one day....he says he will get rid of them when they get too big...same with the albino catfish...and the other day I came home to a whiptail catfish that he paid $20 dollars for!!! Man was I angry...it is hard to keep a healthy aquarium when someone just keeps putting fish in, and it keeps me from being able to get what I want because of lack of space...GRRRRRRRRRR :rant:

[hurricanejedi]

Heh I'd be pissed too! Chris won't touch my tank. Its my project adn every once and a while maybe he'll look at it.

[Larissa]

My husband likes my tanks he just thinks that I spend too much time/money on it.

[sumthin fishy]

What you have to do is....tell them to get thier own tank, set it up, and see whos does better. Long term too, see who has the most fish leftover after 3-5 years ;)

My older brother keeps wanting me to get a FW baracuda, or an Aro for my 55. He hates my tetras and such. My 10 g guppy tank would be home to a puffer and some africans if he had his way. But he respects my choices by not putting stuff in there. He lives a accross town, so its not like he could easily sabatoge my tank though. I would have a serious chat whith my ball and chain if I were you jodi.

[DaisyTattoo]

I would have a serious chat whith my ball and chain if I were you jodi.
I wish we could afford another tank b/c that would be the best solution for us. I have yelled at him till I am blue in the face and it doesnt help. My parents gave me this tank b/c they knew I would take good care of it and he does help do that, but I really had other plans for it...One day I came home and he had changed out all the rock to black and white! I dont know what he did but 3 of my blackskirts died the next day. :sad: It really is a neverending battle for me. It just really stinks, I mean he doesnt even take the time to learn what everything is....he had no idea what the whiptail was or how big it was gonna get but he bought it anyway. Once he bough a violet goby and put it in and when i explained to him that it was not a freshwater fish and that it would die in there he got rid of it like 3 weeks later. poor thing. It is very aggrivating! :mad2:

[OrionGirl]

More than a chat--a pointed lecture!

[sumthin fishy]

Well, what are his hobbies? does he have a nice car? you could go do a nice mural on the hood, maybe a fingerpainting, and explain to him its the same as him doing things wrong in your tank. Or go through his stamp collection to mail out your bills. C'mon give me something to work with here, I can be quite devious under my nice guy immage ;)

[Emg]

Ever think of figureing out a way to lock the lid Jodi...lol....

My dear hubby keeps his mits off my tanks...lol....and I keep my mits of his computers ! Really, he seems to enjoy looking at them and notices when I put an addition in the more obvious tanks, like the one right in the kitchen....but generally he doesn't interfere with them.

I do like it when he notices changes.... :) I sometimes wish he had more interest...but after the discussion in here...I guess I'll just keep my mouth shut and be happy ! LOL !

[DaisyTattoo]

Well, what are his hobbies? does he have a nice car? you could go do a nice mural on the hood, maybe a fingerpainting, and explain to him its the same as him doing things wrong in your tank. Or go through his stamp collection to mail out your bills. C'mon give me something to work with here, I can be quite devious under my nice guy immage ;)
He does have a 92 Camaro he is in LOOOOOOVVVVVEEEE with but unfortunatly it has been broken down in the garage for the last 3 years lol...now he is fixated on the **** tank. I just need to buy him his own I guess.....or really I need to buy myself another one because he has turned this one into his tank...I just with I had 2 grand so that I could have another tank as nice as this one. LOL

[Genral72]

Sounds annoying. Just try not to bring it up. He probaly won't change and you better not.

[RockabillyChick]

my husband is like that. he's had lots of fish and even through all the research i 've done for my own tank, he still holds fast that fish only grow to the size of their tank, and still believes in fishy cycling. i just told him that its my tank, and i'll set it up how i want. someday i do plan to buy him a 200g for a school of bala sharks because he loves them. he used to have a 200g with them but there was a fire in his appartment building. didn't touch his appartment, but the fire dept. wouldn't let anyone in the building for a week and the power was off, so they either got too cold, or ran out of O2. and they all died.