help me set up an aggressive tank.

[caseyrh]

i just bought a 55 gallon tank that has a jack dempsey in it and a red devil. these fish came with the tank. i want to add a jaguar cichlid. and maybe even a green terror. could this setup work? i really just want a carniverous tank that will eat goldfish. i also have a 20 gallon tank where i am planning on housing goldfish to feed the main tank. thanks

[losthere]

i dont know alot about those type of cichlids but my friend has some jags with red devils with some other misc. fish even one african (I try to get him to take it out, but it is an arautus and is the meanst fish in there, so he wont take it out :OT: ) I hope you dont plan on feeding goldfish all the time, it just leads to problems. First of all the gold fish arent very nutritious and leaves a lot of waste at the bottom, they also harbor disease, as many feeder fish arent kept in the best conditions so disease is more prevalant. My friend, before he started feeding more pellets, his fish were always sick with one thing or another. If you want to feed goldfish and not risk disease do an agressive saltwater tank, freshwater and saltwater diseases dont mix. You can feed goldfish just dont make it a regular staple more of a treat.

[YuccaPatrol]

Get a pair of convicts to keep in your 20 gallon. They will breed like rabbits and you can feed their babies to the fish in the big tank.

Plus, they are aggressive little buggers too, so you'd get two interesting tanks of aggressive fish and a suppply of free, disease-free feeders.



Can't beat that!

[reptileguy2727]

goldfish arent good for saltwater fish as even part of the diet.

that tank is barely big enough to hold what you have in there now, and that is only if you have VERY AMPLE filtration and will keep up with at least weekly water changes as they get bigger. live foods are the worst diet in my experience. besides the very high risk of introducing parasites and diseases, it will make them more aggressive (which means they will most likely kill eachother in such a small tank, or stress from the fighting will open them up to diseases, which will kill them) and live food is incomplete. the best looking big cichlids i see are ones only fed pellets, and it needs to be a variety of high quality pellets at that. keep in mind that a male jaguar cichlid can max out at 18-20", that would require something in the 120 gallon range bare minimum for just him. if anything you may need to get a bigger tank as is, dont cram more fish in there.

[Tightdog1]

Do you plan to keep the fish in the same tank for their entire lives?
Because if you do i would only recommend only keeping 1 total of those fish you specified, as a 55g is about 12" wide and most of the fish you saids get to be 12"+ as an adult, with exception for the jack dempsey which gets to be about 10" , well if you have a 12" wide tank then it will be hard to a 12" fish to turn around in the tank. if u want all 4 of those fish you would need at least a 125g probably more sine the fish you said are very aggerssive and territorial fish.

RECOMMEND NO MORE FISH, unless you get a much bigger tank.

[reptileguy2727]

since fish dont stay perfectly straight while turning around, a tank up to about their length wide (depending on species) is fine.

what type of filtration is on the tank now? (exact brand and model please) how often are you doing water changes and how much are you changing?

[caseyrh]

im not sure about the filtration on the tank i will check it out. but the tank is 18 inches wide 4ft long and 2ft tall. i think. But i really just want a carniverous tank cause i think it is cool watching the fish hunt other ones. i like the idea of having Convict cichlids breed in my other tank and then feeding them is there anything i need to do for that? also i think i will cancel out the jaguar fish and replace it with a pike cichlid those seem cooler. i am only going to put 4 fish in the tank and even if they all grew to 13 inches wouldnt that still be okay under the inch per gallon rule? also i have another tank mainly so i can monitor the health of the feeder fish. if anyone else knows any cool carniverous fish that would work well in my tank please let me know.

[caseyrh]

i just bought the tank on craigslist last week. and i put new water in and cleaned the tank when i got it. how often should i change the water and what does that entail. i dont actually change all of the water do i? also the guy at the LFS told me not to get a jaguar but said a pike would work. i really just want like 4 fish that wont kill each other but will attack anything else that enters the tank. i am going to buy 2 fish on friday so i just wanted to know what you guys thought. i am also thinking of giving the red devil to the fish store (if they can sell it) and just keeping the jack dempsey plus whatever i add.

[reptileguy2727]

please get the exact measurements for the tank. take the cubic inches and divide by 231, that will be the gallonage. you need to figure out exactly what filtration you have so you know if you have just enough, too little, of are way over-filtered the way you should be. one inch per gallon GUIDE is at best a loosely applicable guide for small community fish that max out at 2-3". it has absolutely no consideration for the fish you have. many other things are involved with stocking a tank. i think that if you get those fish used to chasing living things to get what they want, they will start to transfer that to eachother (making it hard to get 4 already aggressive species to get along in a relatively small tank). do not rush getting fish. the most responsible way to do this is to 1) figure out your tank's size and your filtration and 2)find out what you really want and do not settle for whatever they happen to have at the LFS. if what you want is truly suitable for your setup, that is fine. water changes include draining a portion of the water (usually 25%, but you may need to do more) once every week to month (you will need to be doing weekly, maybe more). unless you are on well water you will need to add dechlorinator/conditioner (i recommend stress coat) to the water so it is safe for your fish. you may also want to have your tap water parameters tested to make sure they are suitable for your tank. breeding your own food is the safest way to feed live. a minimum of week long quarantine for store bought feeders is the second best. the more variety the better. so if you want to make most of the diet high quality pellets and the rest live, that would be acceptable. keep in mind that 10" of cichlid is roughly equivalent to about 1000 1" fish. biomass is what is the most important, and length is only part of biomass.

[caseyrh]

thanks for the help reptile guy. however i cant imagine the one inch per gallon rule was based on having all one inch fish. i mean that doesnt make any sense whoever came up with that must have factored in average fish size. so its probably based on like 5 inch fish or something. anyways what i was really trying to get out of this forum is if anybody has a carniverous aquarium and what kind of fish they put in that survuved together. if my fish reall got to big i would just upgrade my tank. but its not like im trying to put 15 cichlids in there. i just want too know which fish will live together and just destroy feeder fish.

[jadefoodog]

this is the only reasobale reply ive seen


Do you plan to keep the fish in the same tank for their entire lives?
Because if you do i would only recommend only keeping 1 total of those fish you specified, as a 55g is about 12" wide and most of the fish you saids get to be 12"+ as an adult, with exception for the jack dempsey which gets to be about 10" , well if you have a 12" wide tank then it will be hard to a 12" fish to turn around in the tank. if u want all 4 of those fish you would need at least a 125g probably more sine the fish you said are very aggerssive and territorial fish.

RECOMMEND NO MORE FISH, unless you get a much bigger tank.

[Joseph1391]

that is mean to feed goldfish to your fish!! why not just buy regular fish food for them? and who knows, the goldfish they eat could have something wrong with them and it could make your fish sick and die

[~*LuvMyKribs*~]

I just think you need to do a whole lot of reading about not only what fish you want to keep, but all about keeping fish in general. Read about cycling a tank, the nitrogen cycle, what proper filtration and airation entails, etc etc etc the list goes on!

There is nothing I can stress more. Giving a fish a CLEAN DISEASE FREE feeder fish once in a while is fine, but by no means should constitue a regular diet.

Before you BUY ANYTHING I reccommend researching all you can. Dont just go by what people tell you to do, find out for yourself what will work and what wont. You will soon learn what you will be able to keep in a 55 gallon tank. Not much in terms of larger predetory fish. Forget the 1" of fish per gallon rule.

Once you've done as much research as you can then post again what you've come up with, and we'll help steer you in the right direction. But its up to you to get closer to that point.
:)
-Diana

[jadefoodog]

this is the only reasobale reply ive seen


Do you plan to keep the fish in the same tank for their entire lives?
Because if you do i would only recommend only keeping 1 total of those fish you specified, as a 55g is about 12" wide and most of the fish you saids get to be 12"+ as an adult, with exception for the jack dempsey which gets to be about 10" , well if you have a 12" wide tank then it will be hard to a 12" fish to turn around in the tank. if u want all 4 of those fish you would need at least a 125g probably more sine the fish you said are very aggerssive and territorial fish.

RECOMMEND NO MORE FISH, unless you get a much bigger tank.

[managuense]

thanks for the help reptile guy. however i cant imagine the one inch per gallon rule was based on having all one inch fish. i mean that doesnt make any sense whoever came up with that must have factored in average fish size. so its probably based on like 5 inch fish or something. anyways what i was really trying to get out of this forum is if anybody has a carniverous aquarium and what kind of fish they put in that survuved together. if my fish reall got to big i would just upgrade my tank. but its not like im trying to put 15 cichlids in there. i just want too know which fish will live together and just destroy feeder fish.

Alright, you wanna know what fish can go in there without killing eachother?
you can put most all central amer. cichlids togather in any combo as long as you get a bigger tank. I have a lot of fish so i wont bother listing them, but if you want to know some cool fish that will tear up a little gold fish ill tell you, Trimac cichlids, are very mean and hungry, Oscars very hungry, flowerhorns, a peacock bass(im sure i spelt than wrong) and Dovii and Managuense's love feeders and are mean. these fish cant all live togather but im just showing you what will tear up a feader i think by you getting some fish and dumping them all in a tank you will soon learn alot more about them. O and the only kinda cat fish you should try, that i like are the asian red tail cats. this cat fish almost ate my dad's 7 inch devil!
as for the 20 galone, i love feeding my fish feeders cause its awsome. i dont wory about diseses to much. just make sure the feader dont have ick. if your fish look sick just throw some meds in there. if you keep a 20 galone with feeder a safe thing to do is to treat evey bunch of feaders you get. i would just breed some convict because they breed so easy and constintly. FREE FEEDER! Just go buy some clay pots and turn the temp up little higher than normal and babies you have
kyle :D

[caseyrh]

thanks manga that was a very helpful reply. whoever told me to research before posting, umm what do u think i am doing? anyways this threads purpose was to find out what mix of carniverous fish could coexist together.

[managuense]

thanks manga that was a very helpful reply. whoever told me to research before posting, umm what do u think i am doing? anyways this threads purpose was to find out what mix of carniverous fish could coexist together.

Yea i know what you mean, this is an informational forum and your either on this forum to help others or learn or both. I'm happy to help you, if you need anymore questions answered, just ask k
kyle :)

[Slappy*McFish]

It sounds like you have a 75g...better than a 55g in terms of what cichlids you can keep in it. I will, however, inform you that adding a Jag and/or a green terror to the mix wouldn't be wise. I'd stick to what you already have or trade the Jack and Devil in for a single male Jag. These fish(jags) can get up to 18" or so and are not very friendly in the small confines of an aquarium. More than likely, if you add all these fish to the tank, you'll experience water quality issues and torn up/ragged looked fish. The dominant fish could very well kill the others, as well. Something to think about.
As far as feeders are concerned...use them as treats once or twice a week to suppliment a good staple pellet food. You'll also want to get some frozen/freezedried foods such as krill, jumbo shrimps, etc. I feed my cichlids crickets, snails and worms, also. I don't use feeders mainly because treating the tank for disease gets kind of tiring after awhile. I used to use feeders years ago and enjoyed watching the fish hunt them down, but after awhile it gets old and you get tired of going to the store all the time to buy more feeders. I guess you could say that I've 'been there, done that.'

[MacFish]

thanks manga that was a very helpful reply.

No, actually it wasn't. The fish manga recommended do fit your requirements for aggressiveness and personality. Unfortunately, long term, you can really only safely keep 1 of those fish. Even 2 and you will likely have problems. Some people get away with it but every fish is different. If you are going to try it, you better have a very good backup plan.

[reptileguy2727]

he said asian redtail cat, not south american. asians max out at 2 feet tops. and again, it doesnt matter unless a bigger tank is in the fututre for sure. i know you may have started the thread just asking what will get along with your fish, but even you made us aware that you need some more background info. as already said, the one inch rule is definitely not for bigger fish. it is mainly for fish that max out at 3" tops (you can find this info in books, something you may want to buy a few of, every aquarist should) and even then it is at best a loose guide. have you measured the tank yet and figured out what filters you have? if you are underfiltered your first priority needs to be getting that up to par, not adding more fish.

[MacFish]

AH, my bad! I'll edit my original post to take the pic out.

Thanks for the clarification.

[~*LuvMyKribs*~]

whoever told me to research before posting, umm what do u think i am doing? anyways this threads purpose was to find out what mix of carniverous fish could coexist together.

I understand that, but your starting from the bottom. Do you know how to cycle a tank? From your post is seems like you dont. Your in for some real headache if you cant even do a little more research on keeping your fish. People can throw suggestions at you till the cows come home (some really bad suggestions I might add) but ulitmately its up to YOU to make sure it will work in your tank.


:rolleyes:
-Diana

[managuense]

No, actually it wasn't. The fish manga recommended do fit your requirements for aggressiveness and personality. Unfortunately, long term, you can really only safely keep 1 of those fish. Even 2 and you will likely have problems. Some people get away with it but every fish is different. If you are going to try it, you better have a very good backup plan.
Whatever, It WAS helpful to casey, because is answers the question she asked. i gave her a good list of fish to look at, I said that they'll work out in combos with a bigger tank. she'll buy them and try them out. she will learn that to many fish cant live togather in a small tank. The asian red tails are nice. yes they do get big but it takes a long time to get one thatll reach two feet. once again they are just mean fish.That doesnt mean i think she should get it -she can try it in the future. she asked a question, i answered it. :hi:
kyle
o and i never said the ASIAN redtails were south american! :duh:

[MacFish]

Yes I mistakenly thought you were talking about the South American Red Tail. I was already corrected by reptileguy as you can see from my post above. Sorry for the mix up.

I stand by my original statement about your advice. Getting a bunch of aggressive fish like the ones on your list and tossing them in together is not good advice. Yes, he/she will learn a lot. Unfortunately, it will be the the expense of a lot of fish that get beaten or killed.

People asking these types of questions typically ( sorry to the original poster if I am incorrect ) don't know what they are getting into. When someone like you tells them to go ahead and try this sort of combination, it is doing them more harm than good. These are not the kind of fish someone should just jump into. Lots of research should be done first. Not just about the fish, about general fish keeping as well. If they haven't kept large, aggressive, messy fish before, they need to know what to expect with regards to keeping them happy and clean.

[managuense]

Yes I mistakenly thought you were talking about the South American Red Tail. I was already corrected by reptileguy as you can see from my post above. Sorry for the mix up.

I stand by my original statement about your advice. Getting a bunch of aggressive fish like the ones on your list and tossing them in together is not good advice. Yes, he/she will learn a lot. Unfortunately, it will be the the expense of a lot of fish that get beaten or killed.

People asking these types of questions typically ( sorry to the original poster if I am incorrect ) don't know what they are getting into. When someone like you tells them to go ahead and try this sort of combination, it is doing them more harm than good. These are not the kind of fish someone should just jump into. Lots of research should be done first. Not just about the fish, about general fish keeping as well. If they haven't kept large, aggressive, messy fish before, they need to know what to expect with regards to keeping them happy and clean.
I agree. :)