Days and days of reading/asking. Cycling tank, been cycling with live rock/damsels for aboutsix weeks. about ten days ago, noticed ich on a damsel. I put her in a breeded, hanging inside the tank, raised the temp to 86 for all, lowered salitnity for all. its been 4 days, parasites havent fallen off of offending fish (in time out) yet. Lfs just told me that this might keep ich at bay, but it wont kill it. Please please tell me!! I am almost cycled, I do have a qt tank cycling as well, now I KNOW that this will be important butt please tell me if the ich will be erradicated with this process!!!
Please, I am weary. Iss low salt/high temp gonna kill ich or just reduce it?
- Thread starter laurabolyard
- Start date
Well ive heard if you put the fish in fresh water for a little i dont know the time that the parasites will die. But i dont know much im a saltwater newbie.
Lower salinity and high temp will kill the parasite. First, the higher temperature will speed up the life cycle, reducing the time it takes for the parasite to complete it's life stage (ie, the encysting stage, white spots on the fish). Second, when the tomites hatch from the cysts, the lowered salinity will kill them. Tomites are the ONLY portion of the life cycle that can be killed by ANY treatment. When they are invisible spores on the substrate, they are totally safe from outside agencies--temp, salinity and medications. Ditto that for when they are living in the fish, and when they are encysted on the skin.
So: short response, yes, this method is effective at erradicating the parasite. But, you must continue the treatment for more than just the visible portion of the life cycle. Maintain the conditions for at least 2 weeks past the last visible spot on the fish--this ensures that all the tomites perish upon hatching. Failure to treat for the full time period is what results in later re-infection. Frequent cleaning of the substrate can help remove any cycsts as they drop off, which is also helpful.
And, for what it's worth, freshwater dips are NOT the best method for treating ich. Exposure to FW will kill the parasite, but only those parasites that on the surface and come in contact with the FW. The spores, and the ones still embedded within the skin of the fish are, ironically, protected by the same slime coating that protects the fish! So, in order to be effective, you have to treat repeatedly, to kill off all the parasites as the emerge, which stresses the fish tremendously.
So: short response, yes, this method is effective at erradicating the parasite. But, you must continue the treatment for more than just the visible portion of the life cycle. Maintain the conditions for at least 2 weeks past the last visible spot on the fish--this ensures that all the tomites perish upon hatching. Failure to treat for the full time period is what results in later re-infection. Frequent cleaning of the substrate can help remove any cycsts as they drop off, which is also helpful.
And, for what it's worth, freshwater dips are NOT the best method for treating ich. Exposure to FW will kill the parasite, but only those parasites that on the surface and come in contact with the FW. The spores, and the ones still embedded within the skin of the fish are, ironically, protected by the same slime coating that protects the fish! So, in order to be effective, you have to treat repeatedly, to kill off all the parasites as the emerge, which stresses the fish tremendously.
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Well, marine ich and FW ich are not really the same parasite. They get the same name, but it's actually 2 totally different organisms. Consider slugs: terrestrial slugs are killed by salt-it basically overwhelms their cells and pulls the water out (this is also how salt kills freshwater ich). But, there are many, many SW invertebrates, including sea slugs, that have adapted to the marine environment. Marine ich can not tolerate the lower salinity, because like their freshwater 'cousins' they can't regulate the water in their cells--they can't control osmosis.
Unfortunately, the usual suggestion to raise the tank temperature to speed up the life cycle of cryptocaryon irritans (marine ich) is an artifact of dealing with freshwater ich (ichthyophthirius multifiliis). Cryptocaryon's optimum breeding temperature is actually 86F so raising your tank temperature may actually encourage reproduction of the parasite!
See: http://www.marineaquariumadvice.com/aquarium_fish_4.html
The only two proven ways of eradicating crytocaryon is hyposalinity or copper treatment.
http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-08/sp/index.php
http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-10/sp/feature/index.php
http://www.marineaquariumadvice.com/aquarium_fish_1.html
See: http://www.marineaquariumadvice.com/aquarium_fish_4.html
The only two proven ways of eradicating crytocaryon is hyposalinity or copper treatment.
http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-08/sp/index.php
http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-10/sp/feature/index.php
http://www.marineaquariumadvice.com/aquarium_fish_1.html
Increasing temperature increases metabolism of the fish itself. It reads to me that your fish are lowering resistance. Fresh water dips are effective before moving the fish to quarantine, I don’t see the use if proper hypo or copper is administered.
Sorry, but huh?
Increasing temp will increase the metabolism of the fish as well as that of the parasite, but that's not really relevant for anything other than increasing the oxygenation in the tank if there is currently little surface agitation.
Fresh water dips are not effective against any perasite that is embedded in the flesh of the fish, and tend to be more stressful than anything else. Copper can actually be worse--it is a toxin to fish in high doses, and without careful monitoring, it's easy to overdose. Further, copper still will only kill those free-swimming tomites--miss one spore with copper, and the parasite will show up down the line.
Increasing temp will increase the metabolism of the fish as well as that of the parasite, but that's not really relevant for anything other than increasing the oxygenation in the tank if there is currently little surface agitation.
Fresh water dips are not effective against any perasite that is embedded in the flesh of the fish, and tend to be more stressful than anything else. Copper can actually be worse--it is a toxin to fish in high doses, and without careful monitoring, it's easy to overdose. Further, copper still will only kill those free-swimming tomites--miss one spore with copper, and the parasite will show up down the line.
The bottom line in terms of the initial question about temperature and salinity (at least according to the articles I've cited), is that I wouldn't bother raising the temperature as it won't help and that salinity must be dropped a significant amount (down to around 1.012 or so) for hyposalinity to work. This will take time as it must be done slowly and be monitored carefully with a refractometer.
As far as copper goes, the key word is "proper" dosage. There is always risk of further harm in any course of treatment, but if you follow the instructions of a reputable copper medication to a tee, you should be fine. Copper was the only thing that finally eliminated the ich from my hippo tang after months of frustration with other methods.
As far as copper goes, the key word is "proper" dosage. There is always risk of further harm in any course of treatment, but if you follow the instructions of a reputable copper medication to a tee, you should be fine. Copper was the only thing that finally eliminated the ich from my hippo tang after months of frustration with other methods.