DIY CO2 - avoiding a lag with a new bottle

[Faramir]

You know the problem - CO2 stops because the mixture is spent. And then it may take ages for a new one to get going - in the meantime the pH starts creeping up....

I pinched a trick from winemaking...

What I do when my fermentation stops is pour off 75% of the mixture, then top up with warm sugar solution. This reduces the alcohol level (which may be responsible for the fermentation stopping) and introduces new sugar. The remaining yeast in the 25% left gets working far more quickly than a new culture. It doesn't matter if the old stopped because it ran out of sugar or because the alcohol level rose too far - it seems the yeast goes dormant in both cases, rather than actually dying.

I did this the other day with a completely stopped bottle (i.e. no bubbles even if you shook it) and it restarted within a couple of hours.

[valerie]

I jsut rotate 2 bottles. When the one tha tis hooked up starts to stop producing enough i make up a new one and let it sit for a day.Then i unhook the old and attach the new. The new one has already started up so it only takes a few hours to build up enough pressure to start producing bubbles again.

[NJ Devils Fan]

Whats wrong with mine? I have 3 bottles hooked up to a 3 ways switch thing, then I have the end of the tube connected to a bubble disc. How come there are no bubbles? One bottle is a week and a day old, and the other two are a day old. Yes, I do have all the switches on, and there is air in the tube, it just never comes out, or at least I never see it.

[Slappy*McFish]

what is your recipe NJDevil?

[valerie]

double check for leaks and if you are sure then check to make sure your bottles are kept warm. I have to put mine in a bucket with water and a heater,otherwise it gets to cold in teh winter for any CO2 production.

[NJ Devils Fan]

Each bottle was filled half way with warm water, 4 tablespoons of sugar, and 1 teaspoon of yeast.

Faramir, when you say warm sugar solution, do you mean add whatever amount of sugar you would usually add in the beginning when you are putting everything together?

[NJ Devils Fan]

Valerie, you were right. I put the bottles in a bucket, and the bubbles have not stopped comming up. Thanks.

[Faramir]

Originally posted by NJ Devils Fan
Each bottle was filled half way with warm water, 4 tablespoons of sugar, and 1 teaspoon of yeast.

Faramir, when you say warm sugar solution, do you mean add whatever amount of sugar you would usually add in the beginning when you are putting everything together?

Yes, give or take. I'm not particularly precise about levels of sugar.

I was out of cheapo white sugar the other day and used molasses. Ferments fine but looks seriously unpleasant.

[NJ Devils Fan]

Oh, I can imagine. ;)

[Faramir]

Well, put it this way, we're quite keen on scatalogical humour in the UK, but although I racked my brains I couldn't think of a suitable joke about it...

[Slappy*McFish]

Originally posted by Faramir


Yes, give or take. I'm not particularly precise about levels of sugar.

I was out of cheapo white sugar the other day and used molasses. Ferments fine but looks seriously unpleasant.


lol...I've used pancake syrup in a bind before:D

[valerie]

this is my recipe and it lasts for about 3 weeks.

1 gallon jug(cranberry juice container)
3-4 cups to sugar
1 tsp brewers yeast(this seems to be key since it can withstand higher alcohol levels)

Then i fill the bottle until its about 5" from the top. And stick it into the bucket and watch the bubbles flow.

[Stias']

Faramir, I was wondering if that would work, I didnt know if there would be any live yeast in the container though. Iam going to try it next week or so when the current one runs out.


valerie, I think brewers yeast dies off at around 8%. Champaine yeast goes till around 14%. Probally not worth going out for it special, just thought I would mention it.

Stias'

[NJ Devils Fan]

When the bubbles stop comming out continously, is there no more CO2? I mean, should I take out the 75% from each bottle and add the ingredients again?

[valerie]

Stias': I'm actually using champagne yeast :p I jsust call it brewers yeast. I use the stuff my dad has for wine making. I think it is worth the extra money(don'tknow how much it costs since my dad buys it) but for the extra money you get a longer lasting bottle.

[Stias']

valerie, ya I have no idea how much it costs either but for sure its more than the cheap yeast you get in the grocery store that you make bread with. I believe they all have a different yeast, beer, wine and champaine and I know for sure that there are many different strains of beer yeast, they give a different flavor and act in different temp ranges. If you are getting yeast from the hop shop anyway, might want to try a strain that likes the colder temps so you dont have to put the bottle in warm water. Just ask the hop head for a colder fermenting yeast yet one that can handle a high alcohol content.

Stias'

[Faramir]

I'm using a wine yeast preperation - it also includes a yeast nutrient - ammonium phosphate IIRC. I can't help thinking that this is a Good Thing.

Beer yeast and bread yeast are virtually the same - the one is a derivative of the other, though I'm damned if I can remember which way round it is! Wine yeasts are slightly different - I gather they have been selectively bred from the wild yeasts that settle on grapes, and do have a very much higher alcohol tolerance.

It might be a case of horses for courses, though. Bread/beer yeasts are fast, but don't work if it gets too cold - they will generally stop altogether below around 15C. Wine yeasts will work at lower temperatures. But if temperature is an issue, then a lager yeast might be the best - lagers are cold fermented. It's a bit slow, but it will keep going.

Stias' - it's not obvious is it - you'd think the sludge was dead. But yeast seems to be very good at entering dormancy - think of the granules you buy - they are actually literally alive, but dormant! However, when one makes beer or champagne, one actually relies on the yeast left in the sediment and in suspension in the immature beer/wine. You put it in the bottles/cask, add a little more sugar (or, better, unfermented wine must/beer wort), and it reawakens, producing more CO2. Since it is now in a sealed vessel, this dissolves under pressure and makes the end product fizzy. The best beers are those where the sediment is still in the bottle or cask, rather than ones that have been pulled off, filtered, pasteurised and then repackaged under artificial CO2. Champagne makers have an elegant sediment removal regime involving inverting the bottle, freezing the neck, quickly opening the bottle and removing the plug of icy sediment, and resealing.

[Heady]

I have never done CO2, and was wondering how long your typical bottle lasts?

[Stias']

Heady: Everybody reports about 2 weeks from a bottle, I got 3 out of my last but it was totally dead (I didnt hear the bubbles anymore). Mine are half gallon bottles.

Faramir: lagering yeast (or wyeast as the beer guys like to say) is right, they work down till 40 degrees (F). I dont know what yeast is from what, beer from bread or vise versa but beer yeast will settle and bread wont leaving a cloudy brew, doesnt really matter for my fish tank though.

Alot of the homebrewers have stopped bottleing and take beer straight to kegs to avoid the sediment. In the states corni kegs are pretty common and cheap (formerly Pepsi tanks but they use bagged syrup now). Everybody seems to report no loss in taste but no pain in the butt bottleing and no sediment. Sounds like you do some brewing and wine making, here is where I have been reading to get ready to brew, I am just starting to assemble brew stuff and reading books. http://forum.northernbrewer.com/

Stias'

[anonapersona]

Hi, just thought I'd offer some info on the gelatine CO2 mixture, it can last a very long time.

I had one bottle go 53 days with 2 cups of sugar in the mix, another went 28 days with 1 cup of sugar. Both of those were not run to exhaustion, but ended when the rate fell to 5 bubbles per minute, and the pH rose from the value it had been depressed to.

The Knox gelatine package has a recipe on the back for Knox Blocks, instead of juice substitute 2 cups sugar and 3 cups water, for 4 cups total water used, and 4 packets of gelatine. Chill overnight in a pan, then cut into cubes. Then add yeast and water as normal. Best to let the gelatine come to room temperature before adding the yeast as the cold slows it down.

I am currently experimenting with adding baking soda and salt, but until I do side by side tests, I do not claim that this is an improvement. Test bottles have lasted 16 to 30 days, and I have no explaination for the poorer test. Investigation will resume after a holiday.

[nvision]

anyone willing to break this down for the nutrifin system? :D

thanks for posting the gelatine mix. i find it really intriguing. please keep us posted as to the outcome of your investigation--sometimes, that's really the best and most rewarding part of the hobby.