View Full Version : Please check my dosing.
Just wondering if anyone could look over my dosing and let me know if it is okay to do this.
I am planning on doing a 50% weekly water change every Sunday, and then I will dose the following into a 55g tank:
Grant's Stump Remover for NO3 - 1tsp
Fleet Enema for PO4 - 1/2mL
Potassium Sulfate for K - 1/2tsp
Epsom Salt for Mg - 1 3/4 tsp
Flourish Iron for Fe - 2mL
Flourish Comprehensive for traces - 4mL
I'm hoping that just one weekly dosing, and all at the same time will do okay. I know it's not exactly the typical EI method, but I'm kinda basing it on that. If I'm doing this completely wrong, please please let me know.
Thank you!
Fernando
Oh, and I wasn't sure about the Iron. I think I might need more than that, but the calculator I use states that that much will bring it up to 0.1ppm. But I'm wondering if I'll need more than that, since the plants will use it up so quickly? I think...
Okay, thanks!!!
If what you're dosing is working for you don't change anything. I suggest that for the Fe, the amount you're dosing is high and that if you dose your traces daily instead of once weekly(I think this is what your saying) you will keep many of the trace elements, particularly Fe available more consistently for the plants.
Here is an alternative for traces for your 55gal. Divide your total ml. dosing by 6 and dose that number daily. This will keep the Fe in the Flourish available to the plants all week long. If you dose only on Sun., the Fe will be gone by Tues.
There is no need to dose traces on water change day. I begin dosing them the following day and dose daily until the next water change.
I have found that over-dosing Fe can create more problems than it solves and I don't see the need for extra Fe if the Fe in your Flourish are dosed daily.
Just my opinion.:)
Len
pzuzu
03-13-2006, 10:10 AM
djlen: Thanks for responding! Actually, this isn't necessarily working for me. I am planning on starting this, so I haven't tried it out yet. Just trying to find a routine that I can keep up with. If it means feeding the plants as often as the fish, then that's no problem for me. I just thought perhaps I could just dose everything at the same time.
So I'll split the Flourish Iron and the Flourish Comprehensive and do those everyday, deviding the amounts by 6. If I do my WCs on Sundays, then I'll starting adding the Fe and traces on Monday. Is it okay to still throw all the other nutrients together on Sunday, though?
Also, I think either the calculator I used is wrong or I probably need to calculate with less than 55g (making up for the substrate, about 3-4" high, and the all the plants) because I added the tsp of Grant's Stump Remover and it sent my Nitrates from 0ppm to 40ppm. WOW... I thought it would only raise to like 15ppm or something. I was concerned for the plants cuz I had yet to start dosing and my NO3 readings came in at 0ppm. Which is strange to me, because my tap water comes in at 10ppm, and even before I added the plants to the tank, while I was still cycling the tank, the NO3 went down to 0ppm. That has never happened in any of my other tanks. I was thinking perhaps it had to do with the substrate (which I put into the tank several weeks before actually adding the plants, during the cycling process). I used a mixture of Eco-Complete (40lbs) and Flourite (30lbs). Does the Eco-Complete destroy NO3? It's my first time using it. I've always used Flourite or Laterite. (This time I didn't even bother rinsing the Flourite since I knew I was putting the Eco-Complete on top of it, and I was extremely careful when filling the tank with water and even more careful while planting...I used small tongs to keep the substrate disturbance to a minimum, and my tank came out crystal clear...which is a huge accomplishment for me because in my other tank when I worked with flourite, even after rinsing it, it was a nightmare, but I was extremely clumsy and hadn't even planned a landscape, just kept moving things, no not here, well, here...no not there, over here perhaps, etc.)
Anyways, thanks again!
Fernando
reiverix
03-13-2006, 11:32 AM
I think what djlen was getting at is that you may not need to dose the Flourish Iron at all. The regular Flourish will possibly provide all the plants needs. No point dosing extra FE unless you are sure there's a deficiency.
It's fine to add your K, PO4, NO3 and Mg after (or during) the water change. I think that is how it's most commonly done. That's how I do it anyway.
Did I read this right? You are saying that NO3 bottomed out even with no plants in the tank. There's nothing in Flourite or Eco that will take out nitrate directly.
Yeah...my tap comes in at 10ppm, and during the cycling of the tank the nitrates went down to 0ppm (I used two different test kits, both of which read 10ppm from the tap, and 0ppm once in the tank). Up until last night when I added the Stump Remover, it was still reading 0ppm. Although the tank is fully cycled, I haven't had any fish in there except for my handy goldfish crew which I threw in after I realized what a bad idea it was to cycle with pond snails and food. It became a snail infestation in there. Perhaps the snails eat up nitrates? I don't know. The snails definately aided in the cycling process though, much faster than I've ever been able to do it. I put the goldfish in about a week before the plants went in, they were perfectly happy in there, gobbling up all the snails (of course I helped a lot by taking out a lot of them by hand and clearing away all the remaining egg pods, though I just spotted some baby rams, so I'm sure I didn't get them all. I might have to let the goldfish at 'em again for a little while...oooh...no, that won't work...I'm not one to worry about goldfish and other fish together for a little while, but definately not with my plants.)
After I planted the tank, I did a huge water change. I don't know if that worked against me because now almost everything I've tried to put into that tank has died. My ammonia readings are 0ppm and my nitrites are at 0ppm. I added the stump remover because I feared for the plants without nitrates. This just happened today, when I woke up. I had put in some cherry shrimp and marble (singapore wood) shrimp yesterday and they're all dead. :( The algae eater is fine however.
grrrr...that algae eater of mine is immortal, I've never had a fish survive so many disasters...and he's been in several...he's also a little ***** though, but I know he's never bothered the shrimp before...he's always been with the shrimp ever since he decided to hate every other kind of fish. So I had moved him and a handful of cherries and marbles into the 55g to try it out. My poor marbles...my favorite shrimps. My least favorite part in fishkeeping is setting up a new tank. No matter how hard I try, I always manage to kill something.
And I'm ranting, sorry.
I just stopped writing this for about an hour cuz I had this little thought, completely off topic here... I just hooked up an air pump into my power head, cut up a piece of hose, carved little holes all over it, shoved the hose into the powerhead outlet, stuck airline tubing connectors into the holes to hold them open, and suctioned the hose against the side of the glass. The bubbles are now much finer than they were on the air wand and reaching greater distances. And I s**t you not, all the marble shrimps just came back to life. ****...I was just looking at the bubble wand thinking about how pretty it looks but really what's the point? All the bubles are just going up...and with a canister filter there really isn't a whole lot of oxygen circulation, and all my plants were just put in there, they're still adapting and probably not creating enough oxygen, in fact, they're probably draining it all as I still don't have my CO2 working properly yet.
Hmmm...
Back to topic:
So I'll hold back on the Flourish Iron, continue to dose daily Flourish Comprehensive by dividing 4mL into six and dosing that once a day, and continue to dump all the other nutrients after the weekly 50% WCs. If this still doesn't sound right, someone please correct me.
Thank you both very much...
Okay, bye.
Fernando
I am curious as to how you came up with that dose of Fleet. I am calculating that it will only give you less than 0.5 ppm of phosphate. Note: the fertilator has a bug when it comes to calculating Fleet dosages.
Go ahead, make me feel like a man and ask to see the math!!!
Uh oh...thanks for that... I was in fact using the fertilator. Please let me know how I can figure out the right amount to add. Chuck's calculator doesn't have a calculation for the fleet, and that's the only other calculator I know of.
Thanks!
Fernando
You can use Chuck's calculator, but it is not straightforward. Follow the directions below.
To simulate the concentration of phosphate in the Fleet, enter 47 grams of "phosphate in KH2PO4" and enter 250 in the "Amount of water to mix with:" field.
You need to ignore the "teaspoons" and tablespoons" fields. Just enter the 47 grams of "phosphate in KH2PO4". This is to set up the calculator for the amount of phosphate in the enema.
Then enter your tank volume, even though it is much less than 55 gallons, you could enter 55 gallons; you are going to be testing anyway.
NOW what you get is the result of:
"Each mL of this solution that you add to your tank will add: 0.63 ppm phosphate". This is what you are after. So if you add one mL to your tank you will add 0.63 ppm phosphate. If you add 2 mL you would get 1.26 ppm phosphate, etc.
To double check:
Your tank is 55 gallons which is 208 L.
Fleet enema contains 131.36 mg phosphate/mL. Suppose you choose to add 1 mL. So obviously the 1 mL contains 131.36 mg of phosphate.
Divide 131.36 mg (amount added) by 208 L (your tank size) = 0.63 mg/L which is 0.63 ppm.
References:
1) http://users.ev1.net/~spituch/Chemicals/chemicals.html#Phosphate%20from%20Fleet%20Enema
2) http://fins.actwin.com/aquatic-plants/month.200401/msg00113.html
3) http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/general-planted-tank-discussion/10323-2-questions.html
Jart:
nice...thank you so much...that's how I'll do it from now on. I re-did all of my calculations for 46g of water, since that's probably how much water I actually have in the tank. So for 1 mL of fleet enema, I should get 0.75ppm, which means about 1 & 1/3 mL of fleet enema will get me to the 1ppm mark for PO4.
Thank you for catching this for me! Much appreciated!
Fernando
djlen
03-16-2006, 10:25 AM
Here is the calculator many of us use: http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/fertilator.php?
"I think what djlen was getting at is that you may not need to dose the Flourish Iron at all. The regular Flourish will possibly provide all the plants needs. No point dosing extra FE unless you are sure there's a deficiency."
That's exactly what I meant. Over-doing the Fe can/will produce less than desired results in many cases. If your trace mix isn't adequate, as indicated by the plant growth and color, it may be necessary to dose some extra Fe. I personally have not seen the need......ever. And I keep some very Fe needy plants.
That's the main reason why I suggested dosing traces daily. The self life of Fe in the water table is not dependable. I think that if you keep them, your Crypts. and or Sword plants will show an improvement by dosing traces daily or at least every other day.
When starting out, I suggest dosing your macros - N,P,K after your weekly water change and the following day begin your trace dosing. Then test your N and P on Wed. to see what's been used. You may not need to dose at mid-week, but if you do, one of both of those two will be low.
Eventually you will learn your tank's usages and dose when needed without any testing required.
Some 'folks' will tell you that mid-week testing is not necessary at all if you do a large weekly water change. They are right. I'm just enough of a control freak to want to know what's been used.:)
Len
Here is the calculator many of us use: http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/fertilator.php?
Unfortunately there seems to be a bug in this program when it comes to calculating Fleet dose.
I have not found this to be the case. Seems accurate for my purposes. I've been using it for quite a while.
I use the equation: 16 drops/fleet= 1 ml. So: 8 drops = .50 - 4 drops = .25ml. etc.
In my 55 gal. tanks, .75ml. = 2.41 ppm/P
The 16 drop equation can be =/- a bit, but as I said, for my purposes it works well and many tests have proved this out IME.
Len
EcoPit
03-16-2006, 3:36 PM
Thank you for that info jart. I have been struggling with Fleet dosing and the Fertilator caused me to do a couple overdoses (which I think caused my darned green water problem).
I have not found this to be the case. Seems accurate for my purposes. I've been using it for quite a while.
I use the equation: 16 drops/fleet= 1 ml. So: 8 drops = .50 - 4 drops = .25ml. etc.
In my 55 gal. tanks, .75ml. = 2.41 ppm/P
The 16 drop equation can be =/- a bit, but as I said, for my purposes it works well and many tests have proved this out IME.
Glad that you don't have any problems with your phosphate level. Maybe it just goes to show how "estimative" dosing can be. Here is a link discussing the Fertilator problem:
http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/site-feedback/12859-fertilator-problems-an-explanation.html
pzuzu
03-20-2006, 12:43 PM
Okay, so yesterday I did my 50% water change and dosed N, P, and K. Today I will dose the micros, but this time I will leave out the Flourish Iron and just add the Mg and Flourish Comprehensive. And until next Sunday, I will continue to add Flourish everyday. My question now is, how much Flourish a day should I use? I had written in all my notes to dose 1/2 mL every day. But now I can't remember where I got that amount from. I have so many notes! Does that sound about right?
Thank you all for the help this far.
Fernando
Based on the Macros you're dosing now, I would say you could start with 4 mls./day and see how they respond. That's kind of light, but I don't know how heavy your plant mass is. I think 24 mls/week would be a good starting point.
Test your N and P at mid week.
Len
djlen,
Wow...okay, 4mls is a huge difference from 1/2 ml of flourish. I'm glad I caught that now and not later. However, I have revised my doses. I have a 55g tank and that's what I calculated everything with, but since then, I have changed it to 45g. Just by the amount of substrate I have in there, although the only piece of decor is a fairly long piece of driftwood, about 18-20". But the plants do take up a bit of room. I have about a 1/2 sq foot of micro sword sod that I split for a third of the front of the tank, another third is glosso, and the other third is bare, but on the back half of the tank (long ways) I have quite a substantial amount of stem plants, including stargrass, red temple, hygro, ammenia, foxtail, cardemine, diandra, ludwigia needleleaf, p.gayi, mexican oak, vals, and a sword plant of some sort (sorry about the spelling on some of those). It's actually not as cluttered as it sounds, it's a fairly nice setup. I also accounted for die-offs. Which it looks like the diandra is the first to go, it's melting away. I wish I could stop it cuz I really like those bunches. But I think everything else is looking great. The mexican oak stems are already nearing the top of the tank.
Anyway, my new doses are
stump remover 1/4 tsp (5ppm--I already have 10ppm in my tap)
fleet enema 1 & 1/3 mL
Ksulfate powder 3/4tsp
epsom salt 1 tsp
flourish iron - nixed
flourish - 4ml? every day...
Would that still be good?
I just ordered a small bottle of flourish too, thinking the doses were small enough.
Oh, and any opinions on seachem equilibrium? I just got a bottle in the mail that I had forgotten I ordered. I think I had gotten it for calcium, but it also has Fe, Mg, and K.
I'm pretty sure I got it for EI method... but I'm already dosing, so I guess I don't even need this stuff anymore.
Anyway, thanks again.
Fernando