Newbie questions

[ragc]

I have a 30 gal available and am interested in cichlids. I have kept tetras, swordfish, bettas and I am keeping a nano reef now. I am starting to do research on cichlids, as, after saltwater, only colorful and smart fish will do.

What can I do with a 30? I prefer a planted tank to a rocky tank (have plenty live rock in my reef) for total contrast. I have read that the African cichlids need rock, sand bottoms, and tear up plants, while the American cichlids prefer plants and gravel and don't need rocks. This would bias me towards an American species tank... Please suggest some fish that would do well in that size tank and would coexist well, Also how many, if mating pairs are better, etc. Assume I know nothing :huh: about cichlids (I know nothing!) but know about tank cycling, good water parameters, equipment, etc (I do).

Thanks!

[Star_Rider]

the mid level Sa would do well in a planted tank..this would include angels and discus..but you wouldn't be able to place more that a pair in the tank if youalready have fish.

what kind of tetra do you stock?

if they are neons..and you put juvenile angels in you may be okay..but generally adult angels find neons as finger food.

you could also put discus in there..

but you also have a betta in there..angels may pick on the betta..not sure how the discuc would do..tho discus seem to do well with other dither fish.

if you decide on dwarf cichlids you could go with Blue or bolivian rams..the bolivian tend to be hardier..

but the bottom dwellers might like a cave or two there.. or densly planted may be okay too if you throw in some wood... :D

[ragc]

The tetras and swordtails were many years ago. The betta would not go in the 30 gallon tank, which is still cycling and empty of any fish right now. Sorry for the confusion.

[Harry Tolen]

A 30 gallon tank is a bit small for either discus or angels. If you want to keep plants with your fish, then you might consider some of the smaller cichlid species. A short list of fairly hardy, interesting, and non-destructive cichlids to research would include: Anomalochromis thomasi, Nannacara anomalis, Aequidens curviceps, Aequidens dorsigerus, Nannochromis transvestitus, and the whole range of South American dwarf cichlids.

Requiring hardier plants but still quite interesting would be Herotilapia multispinosa, a mid-sized cichlid that is attractive, easy to breed, and not as "overdone" as convicts.

[stingray4540]

german blue rams, bolivian rams, apistograma (apistos) species, kribensis (kribs). These are all very nice dwarf cichlids that like plants.

[wtpdosa]

You might want to consider a pair of Hemichromis lifalili. They are very hardy and quite beautiful. They grow to approx. 4-6 inches.
They are Africans, but not as aggressive; but they are indeed cichlids!
I'm considering getting a pair because I love their "Jewel" color and they go well with plants.


Here is a link to see what they look like and more info.

http://www.apistogramma.com/cms/Hemichromis/Hemichromis_lifalili/Hemichromis_lifalili/

[TetraFreak]

The key thing to decide on when looking at Afticans versus New World(Americas) Cichlids is the water.

Africans generally require very high pH where South Americans like the softer water that's easier to control without additives. S.A. Dwarves are normally more peacefull as well.

I have Bolivian Rams and they get along with everything in my tank, they love the plants for cover & places to explore, they're constantly cruising in & around the driftwood as well.

you may do best with SA Dwarf species for a 30 Gal.

[wtpdosa]

The key thing to decide on when looking at Afticans versus New World(Americas) Cichlids is the water.

Africans generally require very high pH where South Americans like the softer water that's easier to control without additives. S.A. Dwarves are normally more peacefull as well.

Good point! The Jewel cichlids I mentioned prefer more S.A. type water, more acidic and medium pH. The advantage to these are that they are very hardy and aren't so H2o particluar as some dwarf S.A.s are.

[stingray4540]

You might want to consider a pair of Hemichromis lifalili. They are very hardy and quite beautiful. They grow to approx. 4-6 inches.
They are Africans, but not as aggressive; but they are indeed cichlids!
I'm considering getting a pair because I love their "Jewel" color and they go well with plants.


Here is a link to see what they look like and more info.

http://www.apistogramma.com/cms/Hemichromis/Hemichromis_lifalili/Hemichromis_lifalili/
I have to disagree with you. The Hemichromis species is very, very agressive, and will pick fights with fish twice there size like JD's and Oscars. They don't always win though. But you would only be able to have 1 pair in a 30 so you wouldn't have to wory about aggression to other tankmates.

[wtpdosa]

Nick,

My apologies for not being more specific.
Your quite correct in that Jewels are aggressive and that only two would be adequate for a 30 gal. tank. I should have paid more attention to the original post.
Thanks for clearing that up.

[ragc]

Thanks for the good advice. I am pretty sure thet I'm going SA, as water here in Atlanta is low Ph naturally. It is a pain to raise the Ph in my SW aquarium even though I have an R/O unit to purify it! In fact, I'm theming my cichlid tank as a Mayan tank, with a clay pot for a cave, amazon swords and bogwood, and a small resin Maya glyph. I have gravel and sand areas (although I fully expect them to be disturbed and mixed some).

Should I strive for neutral Ph or should I be a bit lower with SA species? Alkalinity should be low, I understand...

I am considering Microgoephagus ramirezi and Laetacara curviceps, although I really, really like Cichlasoma spirulum and know a place that has them, (I have a local LFS source for the others too). Opinions?

If I were to get the larger Blue-Eyeds, I would keep only a pair, with maybe a compatible algae eater. With the others I may have more, and have both types. Is this the right thing to do in a 30 gallon? What should the stocking limit be?

Is it ok to soften water by putting peat moss in my sump carefully washed, of course)?

Thanks again for the information.

[~*LuvMyKribs*~]

The key thing to decide on when looking at Afticans versus New World(Americas) Cichlids is the water.

Africans generally require very high pH where South Americans like the softer water that's easier to control without additives. S.A. Dwarves are normally more peacefull as well.

That is not true, only the Rift Lake species of african cichlids require hard water with high pH. African riverine cichlids often fare well in water conditions very similar to SA/CA tanks. Lower pH, sometimes even blackwater. Such as Kribensis, for example.


;)
-Diana

[mooman]

Is it ok to soften water by putting peat moss in my sump carefully washed, of course)?

While it's true that peat does soften water in theory, in practice it's affects are usually negligible. If you water already has a low kh then peat can be used to acidify water, but if your gh and kh are high, then it will have little affect. For example, my water had a kh of 3, a gh of 7, and a ph of 7.2. After adding 10 TIMES the recommended dosage of peat extract to my tank, the kh had dropped to 1 and the ph only went down to 6.8. Ohh did I mention that the water was so brown I couldn't see the fish?

Honestly, unless you are going for the "tinted water" look, then skip the peat. As with most fish, water quality (frequent water changes) will be much more important than water chemistry. Also, once you shift your tanks chemistry away from whatever it naturally sits at, then you have to start adjusting the chemistry of your makeup water. It soon become a PITA, which leads to less frequent water changes.

Profiles and info on the fish I keep all say they SHOULD be maintained in soft acidic water, and that they MUST be maintained in soft acidic water in order to spawn. The first is total bunk. I usually maintain my fish in my tap water for a month just to see what will happen. To date I have never lost a fish to "improper" water chemistry, and have spawned quite a few species without resorting to the use of R/O water or peat extract. If i don't see spawning after awhile, THEN I will do a big water change with low ph R/O water. That usually does the trick. As soon as the fry are a couple weeks old, I start doing water changes with tap water again, and have never had a problem.

[ragc]

Thanks...I am posting photos of the tank, so this topic won't be relegated to obscurity. I think it's cycled. Parameters are:no nitrates, Ph at 6.5, Alk 4...

I would still like to hear advice on the Blue-Eyed Cichlasoma spirulum. Is this a good tank for a pair?

http://www.aquaticphotos.com/data/media/8/Dsc00205s.jpg

http://www.aquaticphotos.com/data/media/8/Dsc00204s.jpg

Thanks!

[stingray4540]

Looks good :clap:
sorry I don't know anything about the fish your talking about, but hopefully someone can help.

[ragc]

Here it is (from the photos section here):

http://www.aquariacentral.com/pictures/spilurum.jpg

Blue-Eye Cichlid
AKA: Plumhead Cichlid
Cichlasoma spilurum (Gunther, 1862)


Temperment Sociability Min. Tank Availability Area
Peaceful Pairs 25 gallons Common Middle

Family:
Cichlidae
Type:
Cichlids
Distribution:
Guatemala
Max Size:
4.5"
pH:
Neutral
Temperature:
72-77° F.
Diet:
Omnivorous
Breeding:
Intermediate




A peaceful Cichlid that's ideal for the medium-sized community aquarium. Provide an aquarium with plenty of rocky territories and lots of plants. Efficient filtration and regular water changes are a must. Males are larger than females and have longer anal and dorsal fins. With age, males will also develop a small hump on their foreheads. Feed flake, frozen and live foods.

Anyone know this fish? At my LFS they said it grows to 8", but this site says they only reach 4.5"!

[stingray4540]

If it only gets to be 4.5" then it sounds perfect. I have not heard of it, but you can google it's common and scientific name to conferm which is the correct adult size.

[ragc]

http://filaman.ifm-geomar.de/Photos/PicturesSummary.cfm?ID=7775&what=species

http://filaman.ifm-geomar.de/images/species/Arspi_u1.jpg

http://filaman.ifm-geomar.de/images/thumbnails/jpg/tn_Arspi_uc.jpg


Archocentrus spilurus (Günther, 1862)
Family: Cichlidae (Cichlids)
, subfamily: Cichlasomatinae picture (Arspi_u1.jpg) by Plistil, J.

Order: Perciformes (perch-likes)
Class: Actinopterygii (ray-finned fishes)
FishBase name: Blue-eye cichlid
Max. size: 12.0 cm TL (male/unsexed; Ref. 1672); 8 cm TL (female)
Environment: benthopelagic; freshwater
Climate: tropical; 22 - 32°C
Global Importance: fisheries: of no interest; aquarium: commercial
Resilience: High, minimum population doubling time less than 15 months (Preliminary K or Fecundity.)
Distribution: Central America: Atlantic slope from Belize to Nicaragua.
Biology: Inhabits lakes and rivers, preferring the shallows and bank areas. Found over sand, mud and rock bottoms and prefers the slower moving waters of the lower river valleys
Threatened: Not in IUCN Red List , (Ref. 36508)
Dangerous: harmless
Coordinator: Kullander, Sven O.
Main Ref: Conkel, D.. 1993. (Ref. 7335)


Names of Archocentrus spilurus
Common name Country Language See market names [n=12 ]
Common Name Used In Language Type Official trade name
卡氏麗體魚 China Main Mandarin Chinese Vernacular No
小斑麗體魚 China Main Mandarin Chinese Vernacular No
Blue-eye cichlid Belize English Vernacular No
Blue-eye cichlid Mexico English AFS No
Blue-eye cichlid USA English AFS No
Blåøjet cichlide Denmark Danish Vernacular No
Congo Nicaragua Spanish Vernacular No
Flaggenbuntbarsch Germany German Vernacular No
Mojarra yucateca Mexico Spanish AFS No
Raitakirjoahven Finland Finnish Vernacular No
Schwarzfleckenbuntbarsch Germany German Aquarium No
Tigercichlid Sweden Swedish Vernacular No



Says 12 cm... about 4 3/4" yeehah! Thanks for the suggestion, Stingray4540!

[stingray4540]

No problem. looks like you found yourself a nice pair of fish for your tank.

[ragc]

Well, I actually got the fish, but they were a different species, with the same common name. They still fit my parameters and are the ones I liked so much at the LFS. Grow 4 to 5 inches (some say 6), peaceful, no problem with plants, medium movement water, neutral Ph. They are blue-eyed, from Costa Rica, and easy breeders. Common name: T-bar Cychlid, also Blue-Eye Cichlid, scientific name Archocentrus sajica or also Cryptoheros sajica. I am posting a photo in a new thread to get more advice. Thanks all for your help!