ick!

[jngldnb001]

i have a 12 gallon eclipse tank. been going for about 2 months. i had 2 plecos, 1 white molly, 3 black molly, and a clown loach. everyone was fine, but the white molly developed ick. it had it for a while because i've never seen it before and it was a white fish. well one morning i woke up and both of the plecos and my clown loach had it too. so i went to the store, got some ick medicine and started using it. well it killed my fish! they started dropping like flys. it really seemed to f up the white molly. he was just floating there verticaly with his eyes completely dialated... they were completely black! i went to scoop him out and give him the flush and he darted away and his eyes went back to normal. i don't know what was up with him. so now my tank is down to the 3 black mollys and i can see the begninnings of ick on one of them. even after i've been using the medicine.

i'm thinking its just better to get rid of them and start over. but if i put new fish in, is the water contaminated with ick? should i only change half? or maybe 3 quaters before i put new fish in? should i actually empty the tank and clean it with a rag? i don't want to get rid of any of the bennificial stuff in there right? so what do i do? i'm gonna start over. how do i get the tank ready after this? and how do i avoid this happening in the future? also what fish do you recomend. when i came home with mollys "oh those things get the ick" was the first thing out of my parents mouth.

[jngldnb001]

also, so now when i change the water, or do any water changes in general. is it a good idea to change your filter at the same time, or change the water and let it run over the old filter to get whatever benefits it can from it.

but in this case with the ick, shoul i change the filter and water at the same time?

[jngldnb001]

one more interesting tidbit, if you're familiar with the eclipse system tanks, theres a filter the water flows over, then onto an bio wheel and out a rectangular opening into the tank. well my clown loach loved to fight its way into that small opening and chill in there. not possible for him to infect my biowheel is it? cause that space was so small it had to be touching him, or if not it was very close

[naps]

Please read this!!http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39759

Lots of meds can kill your fish, ESP the clown loaches!! Be careful what you use!!
The Ich is in the water so don't really worry about the filter being contaminated. Change the filter a few days after large water changes so you don't lose too much bacteria. Hope this helps a little

[jngldnb001]

ok so best bet is to change say 80% water, keep the old filter in and let it run for 2 weeks with no fish in it to completely clear out the ich, then start re stocking?

[naps]

Do a water change, I'd raise the temp too, it'll help you get rid of the ich. Just take it as if you still had fish in the tank (so you don't kill the bacteria), but you can raise the temp a bit higher to speed up killing off the ich. Then a filter change in a week or so. Personally I'd wait about a month to restock just to be totally sure that everything is ok. Best of luck with the new fish!! :clap: :clap: :clap:

[daveedka]

Ick will die very quickly without fish in the tank. With or without heat increases and any type of treatment. The two portions of ich's life cycle that occur off of the fish only amount to a few days. and once it hatches it is a matter of a few hours before it dies without a fish to cling to and eat at.

Either way there is no need to get rid of you Black Mollies When ich is quite easy to deal with. Please read the article, it has anwers to all of the things you are asking.
Dave

[naps]

Ick will die very quickly without fish in the tank. With or without heat increases and any type of treatment. The two portions of ich's life cycle that occur off of the fish only amount to a few days. and once it hatches it is a matter of a few hours before it dies without a fish to cling to and eat at.

Either way there is no need to get rid of you Black Mollies When ich is quite easy to deal with. Please read the article, it has anwers to all of the things you are asking.
Dave
Thanks for that update, didn't know about ich with no fish so I was kinda winging it, thanks!! :) Just wanted to be on the safe side and wait a bit before they restock and have another outbreak.

[jngldnb001]

how long does ick take to cure? i used the medicine every other day over the course of a week as per the directions. i saw no improvement, and the medicine killed off my loach and plecos! and it royaly messed up the white molly... what would cause his eyes to dialate like that? he was just floating there vertical like he was dead. it seems as though the black mollys started showing signs WHILE i was using the medicine. for the record the medicine i was using is Mardel Maracide.

i thought it would be best just to start over. i just changed out almost all of the water. i'm gonna let it filter with the old filter in there for about a week, after a few days i'll put in a new filter.

what type of fish do you guys recomend this time? i'm thinking something hearty that schools and is not as suceptible to ick as the mollys are. and a bottom feeder or two

[quenton]

Instead of medications, try heat and salt.
I had servere ick which also developed into a bacterial infection for some of my fish.
However, in the end I lost 3 plecos and one Bala -- other 2 balas looked about ready to go, but the got over it.

I used about 2tsp of salt per gallon, and raised the temp to 84F -- for 2 weeks. When I saw the fins and tails start to go (rot) I added Maracyn and Maracyn-two (they hit
different types, so both are good). I did not loose any plants or any other fish
(mollies, swordtails, angel, whip-tail cats, neons), in fact everyone seemed pretty happy.

I have not removed the salt with water changes over a 4 day period, and 2 weeks
later its still all fine.

Someone pointed out (another forum) that if you have a huge commercial tank (1000g and up) you don't add medications (by the gallon) -- they tend to just raise the temp.

Adding salt speeds things up pretty much.

[daveedka]

I'll Say it Again, because evidently you didn't see my first post.

THE ARTICLE CONTAINS ANSWERS TO YOUR QUESTIONS ABOUT ICH !!!!!!!

As far as the question about how long it takes to cure, the answer is in the article, as far as meds killing your smooth skinned and sensative fish the answer is in the article. As far as the eye being dialated, it is probably a secondary infection and that subject is discussed in the article. In other words All of the ansers you are asking for are in the information you were already given.

As far as letting a tank sit empty, It would be worth your time to read the article on cycling as well, because running an empty tank will kill your bacteria after a short period also.

As far as stocking, in a 12 g Tank the options are pretty limited. There isn't really room for much of a school, Some of the smaller Killifish, one or two male guppies, or something along that line would work with 2 or 3 smaller variety cories or some otto's.


Sorry if I sound Testy, but The article was written to help people and when people refuse to accept the help they are given it becomes quite frustrating. If you read the article and need further clarification or want the opinion of others that is fine but let us know that is what you are after.
Dave

[quenton]

I understand your being upset that he did not seem to either read or believe the aritcle. However, when my 65g got hit with a servier does of ich (my fault, new fish!) -- I read as many articles as I could find -- and unless you really know and trust the author of one its hard do decide what to do. So I posted here a month or so ago and got 3 or 4 people all agreeing on personal experience -- that was easier to go along with then an "anonymous" article.

I just read the article and I think its great and I'm sorry I missed it when I got hit, but I do understand the confusion when you get so many differing opinions.

MY recommendation (but then who am I to recommend?) at this point, from ONE experience and lots of reading is as the article says, raise the temp, put in salt (its way cheaper than meds too), and leave it for long enough -- I would say at this point 2 weeks -- thats 14 days, ich doesn't get the weekends off :-).

Anyway, I sympathize with both the ich problem, its depressing, and with wanting personal suggestions rather than pointing to articles.

That does NOT mean we don't want the articles, just need to get used to who and where the reasonably valid ones are.

[rosita]

I understand your being upset that he did not seem to either read or believe the aritcle. However, when my 65g got hit with a servier does of ich (my fault, new fish!) -- I read as many articles as I could find -- and unless you really know and trust the author of one its hard do decide what to do. So I posted here a month or so ago and got 3 or 4 people all agreeing on personal experience -- that was easier to go along with then an "anonymous" article.

I just read the article and I think its great and I'm sorry I missed it when I got hit, but I do understand the confusion when you get so many differing opinions.

MY recommendation (but then who am I to recommend?) at this point, from ONE experience and lots of reading is as the article says, raise the temp, put in salt (its way cheaper than meds too), and leave it for long enough -- I would say at this point 2 weeks -- thats 14 days, ich doesn't get the weekends off :-).

Anyway, I sympathize with both the ich problem, its depressing, and with wanting personal suggestions rather than pointing to articles.

That does NOT mean we don't want the articles, just need to get used to who and where the reasonably valid ones are.

Well, folks, Dave's article was one of the first things I read when I found this site, and followed it to a T. Great success. Call it intuition, call it recognizing common sense, I trusted what Dave had to say. Why don't we do ratings on the articles to help the folks who are unfamiliar? Pick a number or star range, or whatever, then do a poll or something, and post a little 'splanation as to how ratings are arrived.--level of experience, useful information (tried and true), number of times a particular question has been asked--we could even develop an instrument of measuring success rate for those who read and applied info. I'd give Dave's Ich article alone 10 red arowana!!!!!! Whatchathink??? Just . . . . Renee :idea2:

[daveedka]

That does NOT mean we don't want the articles, just need to get used to who and where the reasonably valid ones are.

I certainly understand this and will be the first to say that it is always good to do additional research and ask opinions of others. I also Say if someone links the information you ask for and you are skepticle or want additional opinions it is best to say something like "I read the ich article and would like other folks opinions on this or that"

I am not the least bit offended when folks question information in a logical manner (I'm not usually offended when they question it in an illlogical manner)

I get very frustrated when folks repeatedly ask the same questions and ignore the answers they were given. I try not to blow up at newbies or people trying to learn, but some days I am less friendly than others. I do not know if the article was read or not, I only know the questions being asked would lead most folks to believe the article was never read. So either the question should be qualified better or the answers given should be considered.

thanks for your compliments on the article.

Dave