Please help! Fluorescent vs PC lighting...

[Heady]

I need lighting for a 60" x 18", 100 gal tank which is not set up yet. I have read a lot about lighting but it is just getting me more confused all the time. I want to grow plants but don't want to mess with CO2 injection.

My questions are:
1) What's the difference fluorescent vs. PC fluorescent?
2) How much total wattage should I shoot for?
3) How many bulbs total? (1 or 2 deep...)
4) What's the deal with all the 8000oK etc numbers?
5) Electronic ballast is best? If so, how do you find such a light?

Please keep it simple as I am not electrically inclined.

[slipknottin]

CFs are regular fluorescent bulbs bent in half. You want to shoot for around 200-300 watts of either CFs or VHO bulbs. If you want to go with T5 bulbs, you can run roughly half that wattage. (100-150 watts)

There are 5 foot VHO bulbs avaliable. They are 160 watts each. So two of those would be adequate. It would leave you plenty of room to add lighting in the future if you want.

The numbers you see (8000K, 6500K, 10,000K, etc.) are the approx color spectrum of the bulb. Sunlight is around 5000-5500K. The higher the number the more bluish it will be, the lower the number, the redder. 10K is white, 20K is blue, and so on.

There are many places you can buy ballasts. Most electronic ballasts will run both VHO, PC, NO, and even T5 bulbs.

For 2x140 watt bulbs you could buy either two fulham ballasts, or one of these http://www.hellolights.com/2lampvhokit.html.

There not cheap though.

If you want to try T5 bulbs (straight fluorescent bulbs that are only 5/8" diameter.) then look at www.happyreefing.com

2 or 3 6500K T5s on a workhorse 7 ballast will be great and youll save on electricity and bulb replacement costs.

[carpguy]

Originally posted by Heady
1) What's the difference fluorescent vs. PC fluorescent?
Power Compact Flourescent (or just CF, Compact Flourescent) give off roughly the same amount of light per watt as Normal Output flourescent (NO). The difference is that CFs do it with much less bulb. A 40w NO bulb is 48" long. A 55w CF bulb is only 24" long. Same light per watt but much less bulb. CFs also run hotter than NO.

2) How much total wattage should I shoot for?
If you don't want to deal with CO2, which I think is a mistake, you're better off staying south of 2 wpg. All the elements (light, CO2, ferts) need to be balanced against each other. Limiting one element (like CO2) means that additional capacity in the others cannot be utilized by the plants and will be taken advantage of by algae.

3) How many bulbs total? (1 or 2 deep...)
Keeping good low light coverage on such a big tank would mean going with NO bulbs. Even coverage is the goal. 2 rows of CF (a 55 and a 96 in each row) would give you almost 3 wpg and guarantee algae problems without CO2. Three rows of NO would land you somewhere around 1.5 wpg.

4) What's the deal with all the 8000oK etc numbers?
Those are Kelvin temperature ratings. They're a description of the bulbs color. For plant bulbs you'll want to stay between 5000k and 7000k. The lower the number the warmer the color, the higher numbers are cooler. I use 6500s.

5) Electronic ballast is best? If so, how do you find such a light?
Is this for a DIY project or are you looking for a premade aquarium lamp? For DIY NO I'd go to a place like Lowe's or the Home Depot. For DIY CF I'd check out AH Supply (ahsupply.com).

If it were my tank, I'd go with more light (CF) and CO2. But you won't be able to do that for $250. You should have no problem getting roughly 150w of NO up there for less than $250 DIY. Don't know anything about premade lamps. Always seemed absurdly expensive to me. Went DIY right away.

HTH

[Heady]

Okay...

My tank measures 60" x 18" x 20" tall. I am thinking about getting 2 Coralife 48" dual fluorescent tube sets and staggering them 3" from each end to get the most coverage I can.

http://www.petsmart.com/fish/shopping/lighting/products/product_695.shtml

($188 total after 20% off coupon, not incl. bulbs)

I currently have 1 set like this on my 55 gal tank which measures 48" x 13" x 18" tall. It seems fairly bright but not glaring. I'm not sure if I will get the same brightness on the 100 gal using 2 sets of this same light or not.

I am not against getting CF but I don't get along well with electricity. I'd like to get something that's preassembled and ready to install into a canopy... plug and play. Anything more than that might be dangerous for me. Do they sell CFs as a completely assembled reflector/ballast retro set? I haven't been able to find one for less than $500 or so.

[superjohnny]

I have a 36" Custom Sealife 96w CF light I got from bigalsonline and it is really nice. No complaints what-so-ever.

I didn't know squat before slipknottin started helping me (http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3043&highlight=lights). Thanks again buddy :) I finally opted for the CS hood cause I didn't want to build my own. linkage (http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3820&highlight=lights) to that conversation.

Hope some of that helps

[slipknottin]

The www.happyreefing.com T5 kits are prewired also.

[Heady]

I read through that topic, and Slipknottin said he didn't like the quality of light from CF's.

Superjohnny, now that you have the 96W on your own tank, do you agree that the quality of light from CF's looks fake, or do you think it looks natural? If you needed lighting, would you choose CF's again? ... Maybe most importantly, what K-value did you get for the 96W bulb? 6,700K... 10,000K... ?

Slipknottin, do you still think the quality of light looks fake, or have you changed your mind since then?

Anyone else with input CF vs. regular fluorescent light output... does it look natural?

Anyone else put a CF kit together? How hard is it to do?

[superjohnny]

I don't have any experience with VHO lighting, but I was thinking very seriously about doing it before I made my decision. Some things that tipped the scale for me: CF lights last longer, run cooler (still very hot though), didn't have to make my own hood. The last thing that put me over the top was I asked 80gJoe and he uses CS lights. His tank is simply awe inspiring.

As far as the color of the light you can change that by getting a different temperature bulb. They make 4,000k-10,000k CF bulbs AFAIK (maybe lower I dunno). Lower temperature bulbs are more red while higher are more blue. Mine is a 8,800k and it looks nice IMO.

I have no complaints about my decision to buy the 96w Custom Sealife. It came in a nice sturdy hood with a reflector and bulb all put together ready to go. I'm not a very good source of advice for comparing VHO to CF though. slipknottin has much more experience than I do. I can only speak for myself when I say that I am happy with my decision and completely satisfied.

Good luck to you, let us know how it turns out :)

[slipknottin]

Its all about the bulb quality. VHO has the advantage over any other bulb as URI is probably the best fluorescent manufacturer in the world.

VHO and CF are about the same otherwise, similar usable life, similar output per watt. CF bulbs do cost more, and are much more fragile however.

My personal favorite, as they become more popular, are the T5 fluorescent bulbs. More light per watt than VHO and CFs, a useable life of over 2 years, and no dramatic drop in output in the first 100 hours. Not to mention the bulbs arent that expensive at all (54 watt 6500K bulbs are $20 each)

I find that T5s are about twice as efficient as VHOs. Meaning a 54 watt T5 bulb is about equal to a 110 watt VHO. Meaning you could either run the same wattages and get twice the light, or cut the wattages (and electrical usage) in half and get the same amount of light.

[beviking]

I hope I don't confuse anyone, but thought I would put experience in.
My 90 gal is 48" X 18" X 25" for reference. I built a hood and installed 2 shop lights (room for 4 bulbs). I tried phillips brand ultra daylight bulbs (6500K) and everything looked washed out - too blue? Just previous to this, I tried GE sunlight bulbs (5500K) on my 55g (2-20W bulbs) and it looked way too yellow (note: I had green gravel in the 55 and now have natural in the 90). So I went with Zoomed's T8 (b/c they use less energy than T12) bulbs and ordered an Ultra-Sun (6500K), Flora-Sun(8500K) and Tropic-Sun(5500K), plus a standard GE bulb. Once again, the 6500K was too blue but the 5500K looks good (b/c different gravel?) and the 8500K bulb (advertises more red and blue for plants) looks awesome! I returned the 6500 and ordered another 8500.
I think the color you see and the overall effect the light has on the tank is affected by the colors in the tank. I think the two fixtures with 4 bulbs will work great! You may have to try differnt colors (K ratings) to get the look you want. Good luck!

[Heady]

I am on the fence between 4-40W normal fluorescents and going compact fluorescent. My CF options as I see them are: 2-96W or 4-55W or 4-36W. That would mean a total of 160 watts normal fluorescent, or compact fluorescent 192 watts, 220 watts, or 144 watts respectively.

Can someone help me here? ...Please? :confused:

[BumBumBee]

I just filled my 45 gallon tank today. I built a hood and put 2 shop lights I bought at Lowe's. $18 each. I have 2 Coral Life colormax bulbs, 1 zoo-med 10,000K and 1 zoo-med Flora Sun. The coral lifes were $11 and the zoo-meds were about $16 each. The hood is trimmed with pine and looks awesome.(all mirrored on the inside, $2 plastic wrap from a hobbie store)

It was very cheap, very fun, looks awesome and the light is even across the whole tank.

Seems like unless you just want other kinds of lights or have no space normal fluorescents are the best. IMHO

[125gJoe]

I think Compact Flourescents last longer and are a bit brighter than regular flourescent tubes. Here's a link that may help.... Lighting Your Aquarium (http://petplace.netscape.com/Articles/artShow.asp?artID=1266)

Here's another good link.... Compact Lighting (http://www.versaquatics.com/compact_lighting.htm)

[OCSupertones]

I had a similar problem because i didnt want to spend $100's of dollars on lights. So i went to lowes and bought two dual 4' shop lights for $6 and then bought 4 6500 bulbs ($2 each) and installed it into my hood with some screws i bought ($3) and then a power strip.

total cost was about $40 with some other misc stuff.

160 watts for $40 is pretty cheap

$.25 cents per watt.

Then again, if your planning on spending $250, you can get much nicer stuff than i did, i was on a tight budget, and didnt care too much about quality...the lights are just for me to see my mbuna...:)

msg me if you have any question about my setup

[Heady]

Thanks for the links 80gjoe. I am leaning toward compact fluorescents but don't want to have so much light the algae goes nuts.

Any other advice would be greatly appreciated (thanks to those who already responded!! :) )...

[Gumby7]

Originally posted by Heady
I read through that topic, and Slipknottin said he didn't like the quality of light from CF's.

Superjohnny, now that you have the 96W on your own tank, do you agree that the quality of light from CF's looks fake, or do you think it looks natural? If you needed lighting, would you choose CF's again? ... Maybe most importantly, what K-value did you get for the 96W bulb? 6,700K... 10,000K... ?

Slipknottin, do you still think the quality of light looks fake, or have you changed your mind since then?

Anyone else with input CF vs. regular fluorescent light output... does it look natural?

Anyone else put a CF kit together? How hard is it to do?

The color rendering index (CRI) is more important than the temperature (K) in determining how "real" the light looks.

You want a bulb with a very high CRI. A 5000-6500K bulb with a CRI of 90 will look so "real" its not funny. This bulb specification is what is used by professionals to work on photographs and other precision graphics.

Gumby

[125gJoe]

Originally posted by Heady
Thanks for the links 80gjoe. I am leaning toward compact fluorescents but don't want to have so much light the algae goes nuts. ....:) )... I think you will enjoy the CPF's.. :)

[Ranger]

WAIT A MINUTE !!!

There is some great info here to start with but I disagree with the idea that compact Florescence are as efficient as standard or VHO. Compact florescence are about 1.8 times more efficient then standard, VHO. What that means is that one watt of electricity in a CF produces almost twice as much lumens as SF, or VHO. Look at some of the comparison charts found around www.thekrib.com/Lights/ or take a 55w CF and look at it next to a 40w SF and you can see the difference.

Heady: The "average rule " is 2 watts of "standard florescence" for every gallon BUT if you don't want to use CO2 you might want to consider less light to avoid algae.

[slipknottin]

Your link shows no proof of CFs being more efficient. It shows a very slight advantage over T12s, but shows them to be less efficient than T8 bulbs, which most NO bulbs are.

Saying "1.8%" is just ridiculous.

T5 bulbs are only 2 times as efficient as T12 bulbs, and they are not bent and are smaller diamteter than CFs.