Random notion: Cycling a new tank with a betta

[Hereford]

No, I don't plan to do this but thought I would solicit comments on the notion that bettas and other labyrinth fish are noteable for surviving in water where ammonia would kill another. Suppose you were setting up a tank and had no other source of bio-media. Suppose you installed a male betta. (Again, I am not suggesting that anyone do this.) He would likely be happier than he was in "the cup" and normal biology would eventually produce the organisms needed for ammonia depletion.

...Just thinking out loud...

[fIsHy13]

OMG is that avatar pic real?

[Ms.Bubbles]

Sure you could cycle a tank with a betta. However, it's not only the breathing of a fish that is affected by ammonia. In poor water quality (high ammonia, nitrites) bettas can develop fin rot and popeye.

If a person must start up a new tank with a betta, adding a lot of fast-growing plants such as anacharis and hornwort would help a lot (they consume ammonia, and help to 'filter' the water).

[Hereford]

fisHy13: I have no idea if the photo is authentic. It has be reproduced in magazines for quite a few years. Could be though.

Ms Bubbles: Not to argue, but fin rot and popeye are not to my knowledge associated with NO2-(3/4) concentration. I am really only curious about how the betta and presumeably other labyrinth fish do survive so well in the presence of such environments as we see them in the store. What made me think of this is that my elderly sister has moved to a 'retirement' complex and asked me about fishkeeping. I thought that a small tank with a betta and perhaps a few platys added later might not be too taxing. This lead me to ruminate on 'easy' ways to start a tank.

[mooman]

The pic is real, but the shadow is some kind of whale or dolphin. Note the shape of the tail and dorsal fin.

[Ms.Bubbles]

Bettas aren't as hardy as you are suggesting. High ammonia can kill them just as it kills other fish, and if it doesn't kill them it leads to the fin rot &/or popeye. The betta's labyrinth organ allows them to breathe AIR (NOT AMMONIA), so that it can survive in small containers with limited amounts of oxygen.

[Hereford]

The pic is real, but the shadow is some kind of whale or dolphin. Note the shape of the tail and dorsal fin.
I can't say. The curvature at the rear of the dorcal fin is suspiciously un-sharklike but then again the refraction of light through water can be confusing. I can't make out the shape of the tail even though I have the larger image here. It could be a 'doctored' photo but then again it could be real. It's just an avatar, not meant to dissuade anyone from swimming or fishkeeping.

[dysfunctionaljd]

according to snopes its a real photo, of a bottlenose dolphin

http://www.snopes.com/photos/animals/surfer.asp

[mandimoron]

I don't think using a betta would be any easier or safer than using any other fish for cycling. Bettas are still harmed by high concentrations of toxins, just like any other fish, and, setting aside pop eye and fin rot for the moment, are still susceptible to having their gills burned by ammonia. This may not seem a critical issue, since, as you pointed out, a betta can simply breathe air from the surface if its gills are rendered useless from scarring, but I personally think its still rather cruel to permit such disfiguration to happen. To put things in terms of a more familiar situation, consider that humans really don't need arms to survive... but you probably wouldn't allow someone to tear yours off, since arms certainly come in handy, don't they? That's not to say that a betta couldn't ever be used to cycle a tank (if it were done RESPONSIBLY), I just don't think bettas are necessarily more tolerant of high ammonia concentrations than any other kind of fish.

[shaunakadub]

If I were going to do another cycle with fish, I would probably choose a betta. I'm not saying thier immune to those toxins or anything, but everyone knows they can put up with those little cups for some time.

So, if your doing a fish cycle the way its meant to be done (Constant water changes, daily testing, ect.) he should be absolutly fine, if not better then when you picked him up in the cup.

[daveedka]

Actually the beatta's don't put up with those little cups all that well. While a fish without the ability to breathe air w might not last as long in an uncirculated cup, a fish such as a danio would last must longer in that amount of ammonia. Either way the fish in the ammonia would be damaged.
Run a search on threads for Beatta's with fin rot, fungus, and so on. The numbers are astronomical. Ammonia burns weaken and stress fish, Beatta's are not really that hardy to begin with. So while they may survive for a few days or even a couple of weeks in a cup, they usually end up dead pretty quickly when they go home.

A decent LFS will provide a slightly larger environment for them, and additionally will provide Frequent 100% water changes. Those beatta's will seldom have issue with Fin rot, or other fungal and bactrial ailments.
So in a nutshell, Ammonia does not cause fin rot, but it throws the door wide open and the end result is a dead or permanently damaged fish.


Have you ever wondered why people don't view Gourami's in the same light that they view beatta's in this discussion? It is only because gourami's will live together in a tank. If beatta's could co-exist we would see the eventual death of the beatta cups and some of the beatta myths.

In answer to your original question, Beatta's would be less useful for fishy cycling than many other fish. The advantage of the labirynth organ doesn't help them with ammonia issues only with low oxygen issues.

Dave

[Alestro Bakai]

Why wouldn't you cycle using Bio Spira?

I cycled my very first tank 'traditionally' and it was a pain in the ...

Ever since I found out about Bio Spira, I've been using it and it works every single time.

[tonytheboss1]

:cool: Agreed I'm a confirmed BioSpira fan also http://fishstoretn.com/bio_spira.html but if I was to go for 'traditional cycle', I'd probably use gouramies (another labyrinth) they're tough as nails & then add the more delicate beatta. Never worked w/ them before but they are attractive. Good Luck

[stingray4540]

I kinda agree with davedka here. If you want to do a fish cycle, giant danios are probably a better way to go. Plus, most lfs will give you store credit if you bring the danios back after the cycle.