Turtles

nerdyguy83

AC Members
May 11, 2006
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Erie, PA, US
My girlfriend had a small red-eared slider in a 10 gallon tank in her dorm room. I know everyone is going to yell because its growth is being stunted and whatever. I've told her that too, but she can't really buy a bigger tank and loves the little thing too much to get rid of it. So here are my questions. If she keeps it in a 10 gallon for a number of years (we're a less than a year from being engaged [but don't tell her] and both heading to grad school for long stints) what kind of damage will it do? If we move it to a suitably large tank in the future with fish too big for it to eat, will it resume growing? Will it munch on fins? Will fish that are almost the same size or bigger bother it?
 
The problem with keeping turts in small tanks is both stunted growth and bad water quality. Turtles usually need 2-4x the filtration that fish do. How big is the turtle? Is the issue space or lack of money for not being able to get a bigger tank? Best case scenario, you'll have a stunted turtle with shell problems that will never grow out to its full size. This is assuming you're providing a well balanced diet, don't overfeed, provide good basking/uvb lighting etc. Worst case scenario, it will get sick and die. Turtles are pretty hardy animals, and they'll put up with a lot of neglect and hang on. The question is, do you want a turtle thats barely clinging to life, or do you want a happy healthy turtle? As far as filtration goes, if that little guy is anywhere near or over 2-3", you're going to have to do water changes every other day or daily to maintain water quality. Rubbermaid tubs are great options if you can't afford a nice tank right away. 50 gallons for about 15 bucks.

Long story short, if you can't properly take care of any pet, you don't really have any business keeping it. There's no reason to make an animal suffer just because you think its "cute" or "cool" to have.

Oh yeah, anything thats in a tank with a turtle is fair game for food eventually. Check out www.turtleforum.com, its a great community and lots of information to help you out.
 
The problem is more space than anything. She doesn't take great care of the water and the filter is just a bio-bag rated for up to 15 gallons I think (she keeps the tank half full with a little shelf for it to climb on, so its more like a 5-6 galllon tank). I got into fishkeeping after she got it, or I would have stopped her from getting it. If I could talk her into a 20gXH with major filtration and frequent water changes (even if I have to do them), would that at least be an improvement?
 
my 2 cents, I keep tortoises which are land dwelling, so no help on the water area with that, but I second the suggestion of a rubber maid 55g. I have had 2 temp housing situations with them, though I allow the tort to rule the living room the tanks are kept in. They take up about a 2 ft x 3 or 4 ft amount of floor space and are a bit more humane than a 10 g. One of them has wheels on it, makes for very easy mobility. Plus it is opaque, which is also a bit more humane to an animal that doesn't "understand" glass- though that may be more of an issue with tortoises than turtles.

On the humanity of it all, you have a cute little guy/gal, but what happens when it succombs to the stress of an unsanitary, small habitat...knowing that you/her knew that the conditions were unsatisfactory? Not to lay a guilt trip, I am ashamed to say I have been there, and it is a horrible feeling. If a small home is going to be anything but very short-term, and you care about the turtle, you may want to have an alternate plan...maybe someone you know could take it for a while, etc.(You've probably thought of other alternatives). It is reassuring you're interested in bettering the turtle's condition though. Anything you do to improve habitat size and sanitation would be an improvement, but that is relative to the not so great conditions, and far from perfect.

Good luck!
 
I like the large rubbermaid container idea for now. I can't seem to find any larger sizes online. Can anyone reccommend a site just so I can look at them? What kind of filter would you reccommend for such a setup (assuming around 50 gallons). I know turtles need a lot of filtration. Would you do setup in such a container the same as a regular aquarium (gravel and whatnot)? Can anyone suggest a way to make a shelf for basking in such a container?

*Edit: Don't worry about the site for the container. I just looked at the rubbermaid website. *duh*

**Further Edit: Would it be ok to get just a 30 gallon for now until he grows more? This is partly a space issue and partly an expense issue. I would plan to run it on a Bio-Wheel 350B (I would cut the lip to make it fit over). Is this enough? I'm a fan of Bio-Wheel, and it is rated for up to 75 gallons, making it 2x the filtration for the size. Plus, he is still small and we don't know if he is stuck at that size or not yet.
 
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This is technically a rude thing to do. I did edits instead of replies, and my thread fell pretty fast into the graveyard that is the second page. So with apologies, I say: **bump**
 
loves the little thing too much to get rid of it.
if she loves it that much, she SHOULD rehome it. she's going to kill it in the set up she has now.

turtles almost always live an unhealthy and short life in an aquarium due to inadequate care. in my opinion and in the opinion of most herpetologists, turtles are not appropriate pets for those without a full understanding of the tremendous amount of care they require. The care and feeding is more complicated than is generally thought ---> daily maintenance of the enclosure, enclosure apparatus and feeding are alot of work. most people are dismayed to find that they can't just stick the turtle in a box or tank of water or let them loose in their yard, tossing lettuce to it once in a while.

Red-eared Sliders are unfortunately one of the most common types of turtles sold in pet stores here and abroad. These fresh water turtles spend much of their time in the warm waters of their native habitat. While they are strong underwater swimmers, these sliders spend much of the warmer hours of the day hauled out on logs or rocks (or, when very small, on marsh weeds and other aquatic plants) basking in the sun.

All sliders are omnivores, eating both animal protein and vegetable/plant matter. Younger turtles need up to 40% of their food from protein sources; adult turtles feed more heavily on vegetation. In the wild they begin by eating tiny fish and amphibian larva, water snails and a variety of plants growing in the water and on land.

It is illegal in the U.S. for pet stores to sell turtles less than four inches in length (this is problematic for those species whose full adult size is 4" or less!). The ones sold legally will be at least four inches long from the neck end of the carapace (top shell) to the tail end of the carapace. If male, it will be somewhere between 2-4 years old and already sexually mature. Wild females reach maturity later, between 5-7 years, and will then be over 5 inches in length; in captivity, females may reach maturity at about 3 1/2 years. You will be able to tell male from females: males are smaller than females in overall body size but have longer tails.

As with all wild-caught reptiles, the animals found in pet stores have been under stress for some time. As a result, they are most likely suffering from protozoan and bacterial infections, including Salmonella which is easily transmitted to young children. Additionally, they are usually emaciated and dehydrated due to long periods of time without food or water or being held in areas too cold to stimulate the appetite; many of these turtles will not eat when they are stressed or frightened and cannot eat when they are too cold.

All Sliders need both a warm, dry area and a large pool of warm water. In the wild, they choose water that warms up quickly in the sun each day. The water must be kept clean; rotting bits of food mixed with feces will combine to make an unhealthful habitat and a sick turtle. Turtles are messy eaters and defecate in their water, so cleaning needs to be a daily routine.

for juvenile turtles, at least a 30 gallon aquarium is necessary to start with to allow room for swimming. clean aquarium rock and gravel to build a slope up from the wet end (the pool) to the dry end (the land). Rough rocks should not be used as they can scratch turtle shells which allows bacterial and fungal infections to get started and penetrate into the turtle's body.

The water must be at least as deep as the turtle is long. If your turtle's carapace (the top shell) is 5 1/2 inches long, the pool that the turtle needs to swim in must be at least 5 1/2 inches deep. This will enable your turtle to swim around naturally. This also means that you will have to continue to increase the water area as your turtle grows.

Proper water filtering systems are necessary to keep the water fresh between your weekly changes. If you have a powerful filter system and you feed your turtle in another tank, you may be able to get away with replacing 25-50% of the water each week for two or three weeks, emptying and cleaning out the tank thoroughly every third or fourth week. Remember to replace the water with warm water.

The water temperature must be maintained between 75-86 degrees F. If you buy a submersible pre-calibrated heater, test it first and make sure the water is the proper temperature before you put your turtle in the water. Too cold and it won't eat; too hot and you'll cook it. Buy an aquarium thermometer and monitor the temperature regularly.

If the room the turtle is being kept in is always over 75 F, then you will only need to heat up a basking area. Using an incandescent light or spot light, allow the area closest to the light to reach 85-88 F. Make sure there is absolutely no way for the light to fall into the water or for the turtle to come into direct contact with the light bulb. Be aware that the light will heat up the water to a certain degree so be sure to monitor the water temperature. Young sliders, and any sick turtle, should be kept warmer (water temperatures between 82-85 F) than the average healthy adult. Sustained low temperatures (between 65-72 degrees) will cause turtles to stop feeding and respiratory infections may result.

If the room is not warm enough to provide the turtle with the proper air temperature gradient, you will need to supplement the heat, providing another source of heat which may be used day and night in addition to the basking light. One alternative is to use one of the new ceramic heat elements; these screw into regular incandescent sockets (preferably porcelain sockets), come in a variety of powers, and last a very long time.

Full-spectrum light is an essential part of the calcium metabolization process in turtles, and calcium deficiencies are very common in captive turtles. Many herpetoculturists use full-spectrum lights as, in addition to their importance in mineral metabolizing, they may have subtle psychological benefits such as improved appetite.

To ensure proper nutrition, strong growth and a healthy long-lived turtle, feed a varied diet to both adults and juveniles. remember that adults eat less animal protein and more vegetable matter. Juveniles must be fed every day; adults can be fed once every two to three days. Do not feed more than they can eat; the excess food will go to waste and foul the water.

Feed a combination of the following foods:
Commercial diets (No more than 25% of total diet): Trout Chow, commercial floating fish, reptile or turtle food (pellets, sticks or tablets). The pellets and sticks have the advantage of being formulated specifically for reptiles and don't decompose in the water as fast as other foods.

Animal Protein (No more than 25% of total diet). Live feeder fish -- do not feed frozen fish; they are deficient in thiamin and excess consumption will cause a thiamin deficiency in your turtle. Earthworms -- buy them from a reptile or aquarium store; do not feed the ones from your yard as they may contain bacteria, parasites and pesticides against which your turtle has no immunity. Finely chopped raw lean beef, beef heart and cooked chicken; raw chicken is too often riddled with salmonella. High quality dog kibble can be offered occasionally --dog and cat foods tend to be too high in fat and additives and so should not be used as the main source of protein.

Plant Matter (50% or more of total diet).
Offer leaves of dark leafy greens such as collard, mustard and dandelion greens. Offer shredded carrots (and carrot tops), squash and green beans. Thawed frozen mixed vegetables may be used occasionally, but care should be taken as some frozen green vegetables develop thiaminase which destroys that all-important B vitamin. Fruit can be offered raw; shred hard fruits like apples and melons, chopping soft fruits such as berries. To help keep their beak in trim, let them gnaw on pieces of cantaloupe with the (well washed) rind still attached.

Vitamin Supplements should be added twice a week. Use a good reptile or turtle multi-vitamin. Turtles must also be supplied with additional calcium; they often enjoy taking bites out of calcium blocks and gnawing on cuttlebone, so always have some available to them.

Watch your turtle for any signs of illness: cloudy, closed or swollen eyes; swollen cheeks; open mouth breathing; bubbly mucous around the nose or mouth; runny stools; loss of appetite; listlessness; spots appearing on plastron (bottom shell), carapace or body; soft shell or excessive shedding. Newly acquired turtles are under a lot of stress and may be riddled with bacterial or parasitical infections that may be passed along to you or your kids. Always take a sick turtle to a reptile veterinarian. Always take a sick turtle to a reptile veterinarian, and have your children checked out by their physician if they begin to exhibit any signs (nausea, stomach aches, vomiting).
 
One of the issues with rubbermaids is you can't really use a HOB filter without some modifications, since the sides dont support the weight all that well. I had two 50-gal rubermaids side by side for a pair of RESs, they were both about 5" long. I built my own filter. I basically bought a pond pump from Home Depot (~$40-50), filled a 5gal bucket with lava rock, and got a hose to run into the bottom of the bucket. I cut a notch out of the lip of the bucket for the flow back into the tank. If you're goot at DIY projects, you can save a ton of money over buying ready-made store stuff. A 30gal might last a year to 18 months, with good filtration, depending on the size of the turtle now. If its a hatchling (1-1.5") you might get 18 months out of it. If its 3" long now, maybe 6 months of use. Generally speaking, I tend to push turtle owners into buying the biggest tank possible now. It will cost more, but you'll save money over the long term by not having to upgrade 2 or 3 times. Also, the sterilite containers (sort of a cloudy-clear plastic) seem to hold up better than rubbermaids. They sell those at walmart.
 
Wow live2padl, what a contribution! It's nice to see people who know their stuff:)

You are bette off getting the 55g and getting the set up going. They aren't that expensive over the 30g I don't think, and if you are headed there anyway...why spend more money? I don' tthink they have larger...we tried to find a larger set up and ended up having to build a 4 X 6 foot tortoise table. The next best thing would be kiddie pools- big and cheap, but maybe not good for your situation or for a water turtle. Then there is the big ponds they sell at home depot, but they are REALLY expensive. There is another terrarium site I know, I have to find the URL though. They are custom made things that look really cool.

The one witht he wheels on the bottom has an internal ledge that you could get a basking area going over. It also has more durable sides then the ones with out wheels. We have 3 heat and or sun lights attached to it, and it doesn't bow like the one without wheels. also we have cut the top in 1/2 and in 1/4 so that it keeps the tempreature a bit more stable when there is a breeze. It also keeps the cats out. The only issue is that you might have to work around the higher sides being close enough to the turtle ot give it adquet heat/light- making sure it is close enough to the basking area. BTW if you go to a hardware store, you can get light domes for much cheaper than the pet store.

You probalby don't want a substrate on the floor of the wet part, it will just make it harder to clean.

here is some info you might pick though:
http://www.tortoisetrust.org/Downloads/Surfaceponds.PDF

though there are a lot of tortoise things, it covers a lot on health and nutrition. A.C. highfiled is a great resource.
www.tortoisetrust.org
also www.russiantortoise.org has a forum where you can get turtle info and possible in their site as well.
 
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liv2padl posted a great comment. Turtles are a big responsibility and need a lot of care. I have a pair in a 55 gallon tank and have atleast 30+ gallons in there for them to swim around. They are about 5 inches in length. I change the water atleast once a week but I mainly do it twice a week. I have a huge filter on that tank to maintain the water quality.
But yeah, everyone is right you need a large tank for them. They will get about 9 inches long.
So how big is this turtle? is it a hatchling? Did she buy it from a petstore? If this did happen, I am not upset with your girlfriend but the petstore, its illegal to sell any turtle in the US that is under 4 inches.
 
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