How long should you light your tank?

[twig]

>.>

I've been an avid reader of these forums for a few weeks now. I've done various searches to further collect a growing knowledge of plants and fishcare.

I have two places where I buy my crap.

One is a place called Safari thats across the street from me. The place is located in a busy mall and because of that things tend to be a little more expensive. Furthermore, they do not offer a wide selection of fish and plants.

I tend to loathe going there because those who work there are generally young and I feel I know more about fishcare than them.

The other place is a wonderful place with a whole bottom floor dedicated to fishlife. They have seperate tanks for brackish fish and i've got a good relationship with the people who work there. It's called 'Nature" ...

I visited Safari today in to replenish my diminished PlantGRO Iron enriched formula.

Casually I asked one of them about the outbreak of blue-green algae i'm trying to figure out how to tackle. I stated I had my lights on a 10 hour timer. He laughed at me and said the lighting should be on no longer than 6-8 hours or else Algae will become a problem.

>.> I kind of laughed at him and shrugged off his attempt to sell me a filter that would remove phospirate 'mongst other things. It's a little cartidge that goes in the fish tank >.>

I'm not really sure why he'd try to sell me that but from what I gather phospate or whatever it's spelt is something i add to my tank to FERTILIZE my plants. Why would I want to remove it?

Anyways,
How long should the lights be on? 10-12 hours right?

[RTR]

I provide 12 hours light on most of my planted tanks. the figures you cite of 10=12 jhours is pretty much standard. Some folks run more specialized cycles, with some lights on during the middle of the light cyle amd a bit less light at either end. But the svarage hobbyist is likely to run within a couple of hours either way of equal day/night lengths.

As is common for pet store employees, they tank a much more beliveable game than they are capabler of playing. At my LFS it will not happen tp me - they know better as I consult for the owner - but it happens to me in other stores from time to time. I ask all the right questions as much as possible without sounding skeptical, including ferts, spectra, hours, intensity, and then I lower the boom on them. No wonder so many folks have problems with their plants. tanks, and fish.

[twig]

=(
Could you help me with this slime algae... it's going to destroy all my java moss.

[Aquabum]

Do a search on BGA. You'll find lots of helpful information.

BGA can be a pain to get rid of. Keep on top of it.


Lissette

[twig]

I looked :\
I didn't really find any specifics ..
They're like add eyratheme phosperate or something and I have no clue what that is :\ I've never seen it ..

[RockabillyChick]

what i've found in my tank is that blue green algae is caused by NOT ENOUGH light. it only grows in the sort of shadowy areas of my tank where some of the light is blocked off by tall plants. BGA is rather easy to rub off though, but it will probably come back.

normally i leave my light on for about 10 hours, but because i'm fighting hair algae, i've cut it back to 6

[twig]

This stuff is crazy. I've never seen anything like it. I'll siphon it up and not 20 minutes later little globs that god knows where came from land back in the substrate and triple in size ...

It's going to start covering everything soon =(

I'm going to have to do a 3 day black-out but I need to figure out how to prevent this garbage or it will be for naught.

[Aquabum]

You sure that you did a thorough search? There are a lot of threads regarding BGA.

Are you sure that it's BGA? Have you tested your water for No3? Make sure that your Nitrates are in order. Tom Barr has always said BGA is caused by low No3. He recommends the following:

Clean up everything in the tank. If your filter is dirty, clean it. Clean the glass, vacum the gravel and wipe off as much as you can. Prune your plants if needed.

Do a 50% water change. Dose No3. Turn off Co2, if you have any. Place an airstone in your tank, and then cover it with black garbage bags, sheets or whatever. Just make sure that the tank is completely covered.

During the blackout (3 days or 4), please don't feed the fish. No peeking of any kind. Your fish will survive, trust me. We've done this many times.

After the b/o, uncover your tank. Wipe the glass and do another 50% w/c. Dose No3 accordingly. Turn on Co2, if you're using it.

Keep No3 levels in order and continue wiping and cleaning it if it comes back. The important thing is to keep harrasing it until it goes away.

I hope that this helps.

Lissette

[twig]

no3 is nitrates? >.>

I've only been adding PlantGRO and PlantGRO Iron Enrichment >.>

What do I Need to add no3?

I don't even have a test for no3 =( only no2 (which are 0 )

I did a thorough search but like you it just states some random thing that i've got no idea where to get or whatever :\

Ohya,
Can I run my co2 during the blackout? =-(
You said no but i have a yeast thingy and its all active and working and >.>

[Aquabum]

What's your current setup like, by the way? How big is your tank? How many wpg do you have?

Plants need food. The main thing that they need are macronutrients. This is N (No3), P (Phosphates), and K (Potassium). Then they need traces, which are micronutrients.

Your tap water may provide enough for your plants to live, but unless you test it, you won't know for sure. Test kits, although inaccurate at times, can give you an estimate on your water chemistry. It's important for you to test your water. If your lacking in something, say No3 (Nitrates), you can dose accordingly. If it's Po4 (Phosphates), you dose P. You can use this calculator to dose a variety of nutrients:
http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/fertilator.php Just enter the info needed, and the calculator does the rest.

There are test kits for No3, and Po4. There are also test kits for Ca (Calcium), and Mg (Magnesium). Ca and Mg can be a big factor if your gh (general hardness) is low. Test for gh as well.

HTH

Lissette

P.S. Turn off Co2. Your plants will not use this during a blackout, and therefore it's not needed.

[twig]

What's your current setup like, by the way?
I have geosystem substrate. Aquaclear 150, a heater, two peices of driftwood, a forest of corkscrew val, a nameless hydro(hydra?) and a pair of anubias. Two peices of driftwood. >.>

Ph was somewhere around 8.2 or so but since i've added co2 it's dropped to mid 7'ish.

0 ammonia, 0 no3, 8 Kh and Gh (>.<)
I've been adding 2 capfulls of PlantGRO a week and just started introducing iron enrichment plantGRO.

How big is your tank?
It's 20 Gallons ...

How many wpg do you have?
Low .... Only 15watt .. though i plan to get a new hood and get two 15 watters. Maybe.

[Aquabum]

Okay, you need a little bit more light.

You don't need Co2. You barely make 1 wpg. Co2 is really needed once you pass the 2 wpg mark, and even then it isn't necessary at that range. You can use Excell for carbon if DIY is too complicated.

I'd like you to go to this site:
http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/articles.htm

Chuck's website has a lot of informative articles which have helped me and a lot of other people starting out with planted tanks. It'll teach you the basics. He has a web page where you can measure Co2 levels more accurately. Here you'll also find a calculator for fertilization, which you can download on your computer.

In my opinion, you're adding a lot traces to the water and the plants are not going to consume the nutrients because you have very little light. Add just one capful a week for now, until you upgrade your lights. Remember, you need more than traces for your plants. N, P, K are also needed.

Your No3 is 0. That's a no, no. Your plants need this macronutrient. Even in low light setups. Try to get 5-10 ppm if you can. This is the reason you have BGA.

Get the other test kits I mentioned before and test your water.

A good place to buy Kno3, Po4, and other nutrients is:
http://www.gregwatson.com/ Greg is a great guy and will help you if have any questions about his products.

BGA can and will overtake your tank if left unattended. This stuff stinks like hell, I know, I had it for nearly 3 months, and it was very difficult to eradicate. If you want to get rid of BGA, you better get started soon.


Lissette

P.S. Two 15w bulbs will only give you 1.5 wpg. If upgrading your lights (which you say you are), try to get at least 2 wpg.

[RockabillyChick]

my suggestion if you want more light, build your own hood. then you can use about 4 of those screw-in compact flourecent bulbs (13-15 watts each) and that will give you about 2.6-3 watts per gallon. then you can use your CO2 and grow some amazing plants, and when the plants are happy, the algae ISN'T.

[twig]

I don't really have time to build my own hood. =(

All my plants grow in low light.

I'll drop the ferts but i disagree about the co2 ... I've added it about 4 days ago and i've noticed ever since my plants have been producing a lot more bubbles >.> Coincidence maybe?

Where can I get NO3 from like a local place =(
i don't really want to order online. I live in Canada and the whole duty thing can suck.

Like at a LFS what would it be called?

My plants are doing pretty good with the lighting i have now btw .. my Val is spreading like a weed.. my hydra(hydro? whatever) has been producing leaves all along the stem and one of my anubias has flowered and grown two leaves within a months time.

Don't you think two 15 watts would be enough for these plants? (I don't have room for more =P)

PlantGRO has:
Nitrogen: 0.6%
Phosphate: 0.3%
k2O: 2.4%

PlantGRO Iron enrichment has:
Nitrogen: 0.15%
Iron: 0.25%
Manganese .05%
zinc: .005
copper: .0005%
Mo: .0007%

>.>
Just one cap of both or ...?

Ohya .. I ment N02 not 3 .. typo >.> Nitrites or whatever the bad one is =P

[twig]

oh hey =P
that guy is Canadian...

Looking at the site what do you think would be best for me? Is that dry fert alright or should I spend the extra buck?

Theres no more excel left btw =(

[Aquabum]

If your plants are doing well with that wattage, then by all means, continue using it. Although, I'm sure that they would do much better with a little more light.

As far is Co2 is concerned, continue using it if you feel that it's been helpful. It can do no harm, that's for sure.

You should first test your water. What's the point in adding anything if you don't need to. With your current setup, you don't need much anyway.

Using dry ferts is easy. Just refer to the websites that I've mentioned above to calculate how much to dose. The Fertilator is my favorite.


Lissette

[twig]

So you think i'm getting blue-green algae because of like ... my ferts? >.<

[Aquabum]

BGA is caused by low No3 (Nitrates), not the fertilizer that you're using.


Lissette

P.S. PlantGro is a fertilizer for traces (micronutrients). It will contain No3, but very miniscule levels of it. No3 is a macronutrient, which should be dosed independently to reach the adequate levels that you need.

[grch36]

BGA is more a bacteria (cyanobacteria sp.?) than an algae and will thrive in aquariums with low nutrient levels. There are a few things you can do that don't really require a WHOLE lot of work.

1. I suggest doing manual removal of the BGA. It is not very difficult as BGA tends to stay as a film substance and comes off plants relatively easily.

2. Immediately do a large water change, if you use a python to get the water out, try to vacuum any floating BGA.

3. Do a complete blackout. If its a bad case like mine was, turn off your lights, cover the tank with blankets or black garbage bags for 3 or 4 days. Although your plants may sag a bit, they will be fine within a few hours of turning the lights back on.

4. Discontinue dosing nutrients and ferts during the black out.

5. Continue with manual cleaning everyday and small 15 to 20% water changes while the lights are off.

6. In the mean time try to increase your WPG. It simply CAN'T hurt.

7. If you don't have a power head, add one and aim the current at the BGA (it ABSOLUTELY HATES water current.)

8. Inject CO2 and try to maintain co2 levels at 15-20ppm. (there are many charts that will tell you what co2 levels are by comparing pH and KH)

9. After your black out, before turning the lights back on, clean any left over BGA followed by another large water change. While replenishing the water, dose with a product called Nitrogen by SeaChem for a 10-15ppm NitrAte reading. As Aquabum mentioned plants need macro nutrients and NitrAte is one of them. With low levels, the BGA outcompetes the plants and actually feeds off the nitrogen from the atmosphere (due to water surface/air exchange). Don't go crazy with the Iron Enriched stuff. And be careful when dosing Phosphates as decaying food matter can increase phosphate levels.
SeaChem sells a lot of macro/micro nutrients that many swear by, I say check em out, read the dosing recommendations.

10. Limit the amount of time you keep the light on. I keep mine at 8 hours a day. (1400-2200)

I had the worst case of BGA a few months ago and have done exactly what I listed above. The BGA was gone within 4 days and I have yet to see any return. I wish you luck and if you have any other question about the above don't be shy bud.

[vidiots]

I had a similar problem not too long ago. Fortunately I have collected quite a number of different test kits over time. I measured everything and posted my measured conditions. RTR was nice enough to look them over and point out that for my light level I did not have enough CO2 and my phosphate level was way too low. I added another bottle of DIY CO2 and dramatically increased my dosing of phosphate. The algae growth slowed considerably but still persisted, however the plant growth improved dramatically. This took place over about 3 weeks, then I got my pressurized CO2 system and cranked it up to the proper levels. The BGA vanished within a day or two.

Just posting this to show an example of the algae being cured by raising levels of things other than just nitrate to get the levels into the correct balance.

[justintoxicated]

spectracide sump remover from Lowes is a great source of KNO3

I heard grants stump remover works as well.