Need fert schedule for 150 gallon

[Bmeasure]

I am in the process of setting up and will be maintaining a 150 gallon heavily planted tank for a customer. It will house 8 Discus, 40 Cardinal Tetras, 15 Corys, 15 Ottos, and 15-20 Ghost Shrimp. I may add 1 betta. Anyways, It's going with a 50/50 mix of Flourite/Eco-Complete, which I will seed with mulm and a bit of peat in the lower levels. I will be waiting a little while to add the Discus and Cardinals. I am going to be using pressurized CO2 and a ph controller. I will have 4x96w AH Supply CF kits for about 2.5wpg. This tank is 7'x18"x24" (LxWxH). I've got a good bit of planted experience, but haven't been doing a higher lighting or pressurized system in almost a year. I have only had to do minimal ferts in my own personal tank for this duration.

Basically, I've become rusty on my fert dosing knowledge. Especially since I can't use the Tom Barr method of 50% changes 1/week. While I will be doing weekly changes for the first month or two (to get it established), I will eventually have to cut back to every 2 weeks maintenance. I have auto feeders that I'm going to set up for the fish, but what do I do for my dosing routine? Also, just so I start out on the right foot, I wouuld like to get exact measurments of ferts to start with (ballpark figures) to save me time and testing the water 10 times each visit for the first couple of months. I have read the fert sticky, but I believe those assume a much smaller aquarium for those dosing measurements. For instance, when I had my own 150 planted, I was dosing about 80 drops of Enema (not 3 or 4 drops) every week with a smaller refresh mid-week. Her water is well water with no Phosphates or Nitrates measured. pH is around 7.7, KH is 6.5, GH is 6. No ammo, nitrite, etc. She uses a water filtration unit for her whole house that keeps things looking pretty good. Although the water is a bit alkaline and hard, it is similar to what I have at my house, and this has been fine. With CO2 dosing, the pH will hover around 6.8 (30ppm CO2) with those figures.

Please give some ideas for a dosing regimen and the amounts of each fert for this large of a tank to get me into a good ballpark. Thanks.

[plantbrain]

1/2-3/4 teaspoon KNO3 2x a week
KH2PO4: 1/8 2x a week
TMG: 20mls 3x a week

This is a fairly lean routine and assumes some from the bioload.

That ought to do it, maybe a little MgSO4, maybe 1/2 teaspoon once a week.
You'll have a an easier time maintenance wise and it'll actually cost less using ADA aqua soil FYI.

Regards,
Tom Barr

[Bmeasure]

Thanks for the info Tom. I assume that I can substitue Flourish liquid for the TMG, correct? I have almost a full liter of this stuff still and would like to use it up.

Although helpful, I still have the issue of the customer only wanting maintenance every 2 weeks! NOT SEVERAL TIMES A WEEK. While I have followed your schedule many times in the past, I cannot get inside this person's house often enough to dose so regularly. I will be using 2 separate fish feeders on this tank, so maybe I can dose the dry ferts in that way, but what about the micros? I cannot use liquid in the feeder. Do I really need to dose micros 3x/week with moderate lighting (2.5wpg)?

I guess I'm trying to figure out how the pros accomplish a beautiful planted setup and still maintain a reasonable maintenance schedule (not coming several times, or even 1/week). I was going to go with higher lighting, but purposely cut back for this very reason. Do I just have to figure this out as I go? Has anyone maintained a very large planted tank with lush growth without constant dosing of ferts? I need to get this to bi-weekly maintenance ASAP (I'm only able to charge for every two weeks). The first month or two I'm giving her "freeby" extra two maintenance visits, since it's a new setup, and I did the build, setup, stocking, and maintenance.

All input welcome. Thanks again.
-Mark

[Captain Hook]

4 x 96 watts of power compacts is pretty solid lighting.

Is it possible the client could add their own fertilizer? You could mix up a solution using about 500 mL of water and a whole bunch of KNO3 and KH2PO4. Give them a syringe and say add XX mL every couple days.

[Bmeasure]

4 x 96 watts of power compacts is pretty solid lighting.

Is it possible the client could add their own fertilizer? You could mix up a solution using about 500 mL of water and a whole bunch of KNO3 and KH2PO4. Give them a syringe and say add XX mL every couple days.

For the lighting:
Almost 400 watts is quite a bit of lighting, but I'm figuring over a 150 gallon (24 inch deep) Tank. They are a simply double CF 2x 3' long tubes over a 7' tank, also. I know that wpg ratios break down as they go into larger setups, so it may be the equivalent of 3wpg on a smaller sized tank.

As for the stock fert solution:
It's a slight possibility, but as you might guess, most clients prefer to have as little work themselves as possible, especially when they are paying me to do the maintenance. The biggest hurdle here is for me to learn how to mix up stock solutions. I have several different dry fert compounds from www.litemanu.com as well as other sources which I would like to use up if possible, first.

What I have on-hand:
-Spectracide Stump Remover
-Generic brand Enema
-Mono Potassium Phosphate
-Triple Phosphate (seems very potent)
-Potassium Sulfate (getting low on this)
-Magnesium Sulfate
-Potassium Nitrate
-Epsom Salt
-Calcium Chloride (Kent Turbo-Calcium
-Flourish Liquid (about 1 Liter)
-Flourish Iron (rarely use this)

How would I go about mixing a stock solution to leave with the client? I would be most appreciable if I could get a mixture list of which of my dry ferts to add to a specified amount of distilled water to produce the "snake-oil" for such a large aquarium. I know that gram measurements are more accurate, but I'd rather stick with tsp,TBSP, mL, and the like if possible, since I'm familiar with and have the equipment for such measurements.
Again, thanks.
-Mark

[Bmeasure]

By the way Plantbrain, thanks for the heads-up to the ADA Aquatic Soil. I'm sure I'll try this in the near future. Anyone have any idea how much is needed for say a 10 gallon or 55 gallon aquarium (to have 4" depth)?

[Bmeasure]

Please someone give me a good link (not too much chemist's language and easy to read) to a good PMDD or Stock Fert dosing instructions. I want to be clear about how to create a bottle to suit my needs.

Another idea I had was to use a 2-week auto feeder with individual compartments out of which I could dose all the dry ferts I need, then get the client to dose the liquid micros. Sound reasonable? This is interesting me because I can dose phosphate one day and iron (traces) on another. I've heard that phos binds up the iron and makes it unusable or difficult to use, and therefore to dose them on separate days. True?

After a couple months of testing and tweaking, I could get it down to exactly how much to add of each fert for each day, to keep levels of all the ferts very low, yet very stable. Any perceived problems with this approach?

[dipan]

then get the client to dose the liquid micros. Sound reasonable?

I can't help with the dosing schedule (not enough experience yet), but the Eheim Liquidoser may be useful to you to automate the micro dosing if the client is not interested in doing anything themselves.

[Captain Hook]

Try the Fertilator at APC or Chuck Gadd's nutrient calculator program.

http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/fertilator.php
http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_aquacalc.htm

You can tell both of them how much of KNO3 and KH2PO4 you have in the solution and the size of the tank. I just realized you will have to mix a very highly concentrated solution to make a small amount of mL equal to the amount you want in that size of tank.

[plantbrain]

I dose the macro nutrients dry myself, you are not going to gain anything with a liquid pre mix on a 150 gal.

Just add a 2-3 things 2x a week is all and then 2-3x a week for the traces.
2 week water changes are fine, try and do over 50% if you can, it'
ll make working and pruning on the tank easier and you do that while the tank drains and refills.

Should be in/out in 90 minutes or less.


Regards,
Tom Barr

[Bmeasure]

Great replies everyone, Thanks again. I think I'll go with adding the dry ferts from a auto-feeder 2x/week, then get my client to dose the liquid ferts 2x (maybe 3x if I see some problems happening) and they can feed the Discus with some frozen foods at the same time!

Plantbrain, do you think 60% waterchanges is enough every two weeks? I'd hate to throw the pH (from having CO2 injected) off too dramatically so as to stress the fish. I will be pumping in CO2 to drop the pH from 7.7ish to around 6.8 (6 dKH). I'll be using a controller to keep it between 6.8 to 6.9. Of course I'd rather not have a nutrient build-up either so I'd like to do as large a change as possible. Input?

[plantbrain]

Well, let's dispell the pH myth right now.

Folks, I mean everyone darn near from Amano to the newbie does large frequent water changes with tap/RO etc without any issue and have done so for well over 15-20 years now.

So don't fret.
pH change from osmotically driven sources such as salt content change, that's what will destroy fish etc.

Once 50-75% every two weeks ought to do it.
It'll take some observation to get it just right, but some autodosing pumps, 2 of them will solve the dosing issue fairly easy.

The ADA soil will make it easier for maintenace folks hands down, there is no doubt, both Jeff/Mike, David and myself all use it for a good reason there.


Regards,
Tom Barr

[Bmeasure]

Very interesting about the pH. I'll do large 60-75% changes then! I was not given enough in the budget for an auto-doser so, I'm going to try it as I said before with the autofeeders and get the client to dose micros. I wanted them to give some frozen foods anyways, so they can do at same time.

Again, thanks for the ADA soil info, I'll certainly try it on the next planted setup. Unfortunately I've already purchased all the substrate for this tank and it's waiting to be put in the tank tomorrow.

Tomorrow and throughout the next week is gonna be my favorite part: Layout of the tank. I love to design layouts, and even set up equipment. I'll post some pics when I get it up and running.