55g Ich Explosion! Help w/ Chemical Solutions

[djblac]

Well, I didn't quarantine a pleco, and it gave my community all ich. My tetras and loachs are just covered, and there are some on my prized rainbows. My friend recommended a treatment of Malachite Green Hydrochloride, and i did one treatment today. I noticed I only have about one more days worth of med, so i went to my LFS and got a bottle of copper sulfate, not knowing the difference of chemicals at the time.

My friend ALSO gave me a bottle of sodium chlorite, which recommends NOT to mix with other chemicals.

I've already treated with the hydrochloride, but of these three what would you all recommend?

(I also raised my temp to 86)

[Cathy G]

I am not going to tell you about which med to use - I have no experiance with those. BUT, if I were you I'd get another airstone/pump into the tank to increase the oxygen content. (And/or lower your water level so their is more splash as it returns from the filter.) Also, you will find that most folks prefer to cure ich with salt along with heat.
Cathy

[rosita]

Check out daveedka's article on treating ich with heat and salt; many of us have found it extremely helpful (I eradicated 2 outbreaks following his directions!!) He really knows his stuff. Best of luck!!!


http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39759

[downloader]

I recommend you stop pumping all that stuff into the tank. Keep the temp and add a bit of salt. You can't get rid of ick in a day. Slowly but surely it will go away. Tetras and loaches are a bit more sensitive to meds. Good luck

www.bluewhippet.net

[Roan Art]

Please please please do NOT put copper in your tank!

Copper cannot be removed from the tank. It will bond on the molecular level with the silcone, decorations, you name it. It is toxic to all life and especially to invertebrates. There have been cases where people have used copper in a tank and thereafter have *never* been able to keep an invertebrate alive. Yes, it's that toxic.

Malachite green is toxic to tetrass, especially at higher temperatures. It is also toxic to catfish types as well.

I highly suggest you do the salt+heat treatment as well. The rainbows won't have a problem with either the salt or the heat, just make sure you add a bubble wand or some other aeration as they are very O2 intensive fish.

Roan

[djblac]

Ok so that was all day one, i woke up this morning and things have taken a turn for the WAY better!?!?

OK so almost ALL the ich is now GONE...just yesturday some of my tetras looked saltier than fries from micky d's, now it's hard to find any ich on them at all. Yey!! (?)

I have NO deaths yet, and although the melechite is working, i feel a little safer using the salt/heat method. In parts of my tank the temp got up to 90, so thats a bit scary. I turned the heat down just a tad to help with over heating, but otherwise day two looks great, and YEY for NO DEATH! :)

OK well i'm off for school, i'll treat with salt when i get back...

*My loachs are still the most infected, and they are acting VERY stressed...they bearly will come out from the back of the tank, i'll have to keep an eye on them

[Chickieepooh2u]

Big fan of the salt - heat treatment. But please don't add the salt directly to the tank. I use 1 tsp per gallon dissovled in new water I'm adding to the tank after a water change.

NOTE* There might not be any ich on the fish anymore but that doesn't mean its not still in the tank. The little ichs drop off the fish and hatch on the bottom. Darn things!!

[reiverix]

Just to reiterate on the above post....

The ich is not gone. It is just going through its natural lifecycle. The treatment didn't make the spots fall off your fish. They are in the substrate waiting to hatch, and it is only when they are freeswimming and looking for a host that they are susceptible.

[djblac]

thanks for all the advice. I'm still aware that there is a bit of ich left in the tank, there are still spots on my loachs saddly. Hopefully through salt treatments (thanks for the advice on premixxing that solution) we'll kick that ich out...i'll keep everyone updated. it's not over yet ;/

[djblac]

Here is a recap:
Day 1 - Noticed ich, raised temp to 86/ treated w/ malachite green
Day 2 - Ich has fallen off most fish, only left on loachs. Adjusted temp to even out tank temp (in some areas the temp was 90!) - Ok, so got my tank temp evenly to 86. Treated with salt.

For dosing salt i read does only 1tsp per gallon per hour...I slowly mixxed into my tank 20tsp total yesturday, and i would have done more but you could REALLY tell that i had added the salt to my tank, although i premixxed in a bucket before adding it to my tank, yesturday my tank was not as clear as it normally is...

Day 3 - 20tsp of salt is in my tank, but i can't just dump more salt/water into my tank without taking some water out.

Ok my plan - I need to take out 15g of water....then add 10g of treated 'salt' water to my tank, enough to complete my salt dosing. i read that a recommened final dose of 2tsp of salt per g is recommened, but my tank is full and i need to take water out. How should i go about my final dose?

I can mix 2 buckets of 'salt water' for a total of 10g, should i mix them both @ 10tsp each , raising my total to roughly 40tsp of salt in my tank (20tsp each)? OR i could go for the 2 tsp per gallon and mix them both at 20tsp, adding 40tsp over the course of the day........getting my tank up to 60tsp total? Am i shooting for roughly 90tsp to correctly dose my tank? This seems real high............... (i figure my 55g's water is really around 45-50g)

Ok i hope i didn't confuse anyone, but i just want to do this right the first time...i am using a link from above for all my refernces to salt treatment

[TheZoo]

You can do a regular water change, just adding enough salt to your new water to get the levels of the whole tank to where you want it to be....

[djblac]

Ok i did another water change today, with a bucket of 5g that had 20tsp of salt mixxed in. I had to take 10g of water out of my tank, which had 20tsp from last night already mixxed in. After adding the 5g of mixxed water, i should be about give or take 40tsp of salt.

Almost ALL signs of ich are gone, my loachs are starting to come out more and there are NO DEATHS at all, i'm very very thankful. From what I understand is happening in my tank, the ich has fallen off of my fish and is starting it's life cycle over again in my gravel. Either the raise of temp or salt treatment should eleminate the ich before it can grow and reattach to my fish, if i have done everything correctly. So basicly it's a waiting game, i have my salt just under 1 tsp per gallon, but I would preffer to stay at this point because of the ill-effects salt has on a tank longterm. So i guess i'll just wait and see if the ich comes back, it looks like it's being defeated!! So far so good..........

[djblac]

Day 4 -
Again almost all Ich gone, but signs are still on 2/3 loachs. I think i may have spotted some on my pleco too. The ich that is left is in less than 10 "grains" of ich total on all fish.

New Question - My biggest loach, who was effected the worse from the Ich, now has tiny spots of darker coloration where I think the ich used to be, will these 'sores' heal up?

...40tsp of salt, 86 degrees, no deaths!

[Roan Art]

IMO you don't have near enough salt in the tank and it could be why you are seeing new spots. 1 tsp per gallon is the minimum to kill ich and most of us go to 2 tsps per gallon.

If you do not kill the ich with the dosage you are using, you will have to do it again and subject your fish to even more stress of heat + salt, or meds if you decide to retreat with those. That's even harder on the fish than going to 2 tsp per gallon.

Kill it now and kill it good :)

Roan

[cyberbeer65]

Just READ this article and you won't have ich anymore.

http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39759

[djblac]

Just READ this article and you won't have ich anymore.

http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39759

yup thats where i have been using as refernce, but it doesn't really go into detail on what to expect while doing that treatment. this thread is just a log of me doing that treatment, but i'm going to take Roan's advice and up it to 2tsp of salt, i'd rather be safe than sorry.

[Zeromason577]

well I hope everything goes well.
Make sure to keep us posted on the condition of everything.

[djblac]

:thm:

One Week - Well i still have my temp at 86, and I really think it's starting to get to some of my fish. Saddly all of them just arn't behaving as lively as they once were...but I am thinking it's just the added heat. I only added 40 tsp of salt to my tank, I have a 55g. I have not seen any ich on any of my fish since day 4, except one of my plecos...well I'm not sure. It's a sailfin pleco, and it has two identical white spots on either side of it's head...i can't tell if it's like a spike of his, a hair/brissle or ich. There are only these two spots on both sides of his head, yet they seem to stick out a little, i'm still unsure.They are identical on both sides, and seem to start a line of other spikes down his sides, but those arn't the same white color as the front-most spots. Because of that, i keep a careful eye on my tank for any other spots. I'll just keep a look out and continue my heat treatment until i'm convinced those white spots arn't ich (by no ich infection within a few days) OR if i spot any ich, i'll know i've added too little of salt and i'll just have to kick myself...but let's all hope for the better!

Soo to sum all that up, 40tsp of salt, 86 heat treatment, one week, (most likely) no ich. Waiting to make sure that there are no trace infections, going to take it day by day for a week or so. NO lost fish =)