CA/SA cichlid people chime in

[latazyo]

I have a pair of convicts
they are currently in a 10g, but I just bought a 75 g to which they will move to when it is cycled

I wish to make it a cichlid tank

how many, and what kinds of cichlids could I put in there with them

PS-the convicts are VERY small, like 1.5"

and if I am wrong and convicts are not american, please steer me in the right direction

I plan to have a sand bed, plenty of large rocks, driftwood and live plants in the tank...if that helps any

thanks in advance, I'm excited to plan a new community

another note: I am an experienced aquarist, but I have not had much experience with cichlids, so perhaps more difficult ones should not be suggested

[Co/\/vict]

Alright bud, here's your options, you could turn that ENTIRE aquarium into a one fish tank, or you could have smaller, less aggressive cichlids..... the convicts you have are from south america, so avoid any AFRICAN cichlids if at all possible. The convicts are very aggressive when breeding which people tell me is extremely easy. Plants won't live with convicts, not many cichlids tolerate plants, there are a few though. Some good choices for a 1 fish 75 gallon is a ......

Midas
Oscar
Jaguar
Trimac
Jack Dempsey
Green Terror
many others.......

and if you want smaller fish........

Convicts
Firemouths
Severums
Earth Eaters
many others........

and the main concern you want to have is that cichlids are very messy fish, so consider haven't sufficient filtration for them, a 75 should have at least 2 emperor 400's I would say.

Sand substrate is a good choice. Some cichlids really like it.
Make sure to have plenty of caves, and some cichlids really like driftwoods too. And most of all make sure before getting another cichlid that it won't kill every fish in there. It is pretty hard to find cichlids that will tolerate eachother.

Congrats on the 75,

Co/\/vict

[Mattimeo]

Actually, convicts are central americans, and prefer hard water unlike their soft water s.a. cousins.

convicts are WAY overrated in the aggression department, as are jack dempseys, the "green terrors" available in the hobby, and many others. If you want cichlids, I advise you steer clear of all but the largest of plants, as most cichlids do like to dig. Java fern, java moss, bolbitis fern, riccia fluitans, and java moss are a few examples of plants you can tie onto rocks or driftwood, and thus, will not be molested by non herbivorous cichlids. IMO a beautiful setup would incorporate some larger sized gravel (over 1 inch diameter granules), a bunch of rocks and driftwood with the various plants tied on. Inhabitants would include:

*breeding pair convicts
*breeding pair firemouths
*a shoal (10-12) rainbowfish (I think that red hued rainbows would look natural with the rocks and driftwood)
*a few anostomas sp. (max 3, avoid using java fern or other soft leaved plants with these guys as they'll eat em down in no time)
*a trio of jewel cichlids (watch out as they can be nasty when breeding)

that would IMO be a great setup.

[latazyo]

WOW guys, EXCELLENT advice

and I REALLY want a multiple fish setup, so an oscar wouldnt' really suit me very well

right now I do have one emperor 400, but not 2...

anyways...I am happy to hear that my ideas of large rocks and driftwood will please these fish, I've always wanted convicts and since I got my pair a few weeks ago I've been a very happy fishkeeper

Mattimeo-why would I want a trio of jewels as opposed to a pair or two pair, is there a reason for the trio?

another question: are these fish all goign to be 4-6" eventually, if so, I think that your suggestions will work BEAUTIFULLY in the 75, man I'm pumped

[Co/\/vict]

Central America DUDE?

http://www.fishprofiles.com/profiles/cichlids/convict.asp

not according to this.......

[perrito_blanco]

Originally posted by latazyo
I have a pair of convicts
they are currently in a 10g, but I just bought a 75 g to which they will move to when it is cycled
Quick question...

What else is in your 10 gallon tank? Are all of the inhabitants going into the 75 gallon?

If so, why not just put the filter from the old setup on the 75 gallon and you avoid having to go though the cycling period.

Just a thought.

[perrito_blanco]

Originally posted by Co/\/vict
Central America DUDE?

http://www.fishprofiles.com/profiles/cichlids/convict.asp

not according to this.......

Hehehe.. this is funny. :p :p :p

Did you read that carefully doood? :p :p :p

[latazyo]

the only other thing in the tank is a small pleco (like 2")

and yeah, he'll be goin into the 75 with them

the problem is, I have a whisper 10-20 in there

and the 75 has an emperor 400

can I just put the filter media in there with the 400?

[Frameshift]

From FishProfiles.com -


Origin: Southern Central America.

Convicts are from Central America dude.

[Arkady]

okay, I may sound stoofid for this, but wtf is the difference between an African, CA and SA??? I wouldn't really know how each cichild falls into one catagory or another, unless it has to do with their original habitat, like which part of the planet they're from... someone please enlighten me..

[Z Man]

Many African cichlids come from the Rift Lakes which are cool in some areas with hard water. South American cichlids are in mostly warm very soft water. Central American cichlids live in cooler water than SA's and the water is a little harder but not as hard as those from the Rift Lakes. Then people always confuse West African cichlids with those of SA because the also are in warm soft water BUT putting them together in the same tank may cause problems due to the fact that their 'fright' patterns are different. Some patterns are striped vertically and others are horizontal and the fish may not recognize which is which.Yes! I depends where each fish comes from originally! They may exist in each others conditions but won't be happy and may not be able to re-produce.

[perrito_blanco]

Originally posted by latazyo
the only other thing in the tank is a small pleco (like 2")

and yeah, he'll be goin into the 75 with them

the problem is, I have a whisper 10-20 in there

and the 75 has an emperor 400

can I just put the filter media in there with the 400?
Just throw the whole filter onto the 75 gallon tank. The only reason you need to cycle the tank is to establish the proper bacteria colonies in the filter. You're really cycling the filter, not the tank. Since you have a 10 gallon tank with an already cycled filter, just add the filter!

Then I'd take 6 gallons or so of water out of the 10 gallon and add a gallon of the water from the new tank to it every 10 minutes or so to get the fish acclimated. Then just net them and throw them into their new home. After a month or so, you can remove the smaller filter if you need it for the 10. The new filter will have been well seeded with bacteria by then.

[Co/\/vict]

Originally posted by Frameshift
From FishProfiles.com -



Convicts are from Central America dude.

Thank you for your comment frameshift, that was so needlessly added to a post that was already 100% none of your concern, congratulations!

And it is STILL South AMERICA!

[perrito_blanco]

:confused:

[Co/\/vict]

I forgot how on EVERY other forum you go to they have to remind you that the people from here are @$$holes, and you are not allowed to make mistakes. And if you do, around 30 people will come into the thread and flame you because they are all old people spending 300+ on a stupid fish. lol

[perrito_blanco]

You're over-reacting. No one is flaming you. Lighten up.

You're the one who has the name "Convict". :rolleyes:

[Anton Wernher]

Convicts hail from slower waters of Central America such as from Lake Atitlan in Guatemala. While they inhabit a large range I believe they are not found much more south than Panama.

The reason why mistakes get pointed out so quickly here is that there is a large number of experianced fish people who read these threads. I don't understand how this is a bad thing. It simply adds to the knowledge of everyone who reads these posts. Peronally I appericiate it when people point out mistakes to myself... sometimes it surprises me how long I have gone with wrong information in my head. In short this hobby is a full time learning experiance.. don't be upset when someone trys to help you.

[latazyo]

thanks for the men that are not hijacking...hehe...jk


ANYWAYS, I'll add MORE difficulty to the situation

right now the 10g with teh convicts has ICK, and it is being treated


SOooooooooooo....

should I still do the filter thing, or will that spread ick to my new 75g?

[Anton Wernher]

If you buy the fish from a LFS and the fish was tank raised chances are it has been exposed and is a carrier of ich. So I don't think this will cause a problem after it has been cleared up. Might want to verify that with someone though. Anyway I would treat the ten gallon with convicts until the ich clears up. After a month or so of no visible signs of ich then I would go ahead and move the filter.

[1 fish 2 fish]

I would suggest Blue Acaras, I think they appreciate sand also.

I hope you don't mean Colorado Avalanch by avs in your signature, as I am a Wings fan. :)

[Anton Wernher]

Is the pair of convicts a mated pair?

[O-man21]

I think some jewel cichlids would be great with them,


GO STARS!!!!!

[ScottoMacD]

Originally posted by Co/\/vict

it is STILL South AMERICA!

Convict. Give up man you are wrong. No big deal. It happens everyone makes mistakes. Geez. To carry on after being proven wrong?????

This is quoted word for word from the Lexicon of cichlids by Dr. Herbert R. Axelrod.


Herichthys Nigrofasciatus: This fish was originally described by Guenther in 1869. It is the most popular of Central American Cichlids and often is called the convict cichlid.

Central american my friend,

[Slappy*McFish]

Originally posted by Co/\/vict
I forgot how on EVERY other forum you go to they have to remind you that the people from here are @$$holes, and you are not allowed to make mistakes. And if you do, around 30 people will come into the thread and flame you because they are all old people spending 300+ on a stupid fish. lol

Now that was just uncalled for. So you were a little geographically "off", and were corrected, so what?..no one was being an @$$hole as you so eloquintly put it....and if this forum is so bad, then why stay? All these "old" people arent flaming you because you were wrong... but instead, maybe it's the aggressive, immature attitude thrown back in their face for giving correct information.

[latazyo]

alrihgt, some answers

thanks for the advice on ich, I hate the sh|t, but hopefully it'll be gone soon, it has infected TWO of my tanks over thanksgiving holiday

about the convicts- they are only 1.5", so I don't know if they're "old enough" to breed yet or not, but they have been behaving suspicisously and the female REALLY likes to be in her cave, so I don 'know if there is some breeding goign on or not, they seem to "flirt" a lot, and I know they aren't fighting

and YES, that is Colorado Avalanche, but I'd consider myself more of a Patrick Roy fan, have been since the old days with the Canadiens and the 1993 Stanley Cup
I just watched my first NHL game last Friday in MPLS Avs vs. Wild, excellent game might I add

ANYWAYS, back on topic

would this work?
4 convicts (they're my favorite)
2 firemouths
2 jewels

how would that fare in my 75 once it is up?

[1 fish 2 fish]

Originally posted by ScottoMacD


Convict. Give up man you are wrong. No big deal. It happens everyone makes mistakes. Geez. To carry on after being proven wrong?????

This is quoted word for word from the Lexicon of cichlids by Dr. Herbert R. Axelrod.



Central american my friend,

Or we could drop it and forget about it.

[1 fish 2 fish]

Roy is real good, I think the Avs will beat the Wings this year, if they meet in the playoffs. They aren't off to a good start with the new coach and Yzerman gone half the season.

How are the Stars this year, and who is their goalie?

As for the fish, Geo are a lot of fun, not very aggresive, but they spend most of there time, looking for food in the substrate, I've heard they have great personalities also.

[Zeb]

Hemichromis species are from the rivers of africa, so I would not suggest a jewel.

Normally I would heavily suggest a severum and blue acaras..I own both, and find the sevs to be my favorite of all my fish. I'm not sure how they would do with convicts though... I have a breeding pair of cons, and i think they are pretty mean.

Jack Dempsey may or may not be a good choice. I love the fish, and I've owned two. One was a lethargic psycho which cut a convict in half....but this was in a smaller tank. My current dempsey bothers noone, and is always out. Eats out of my hand readily, and even follows me across the tank....I think that has to do with the fact I bought it young, raised it in a 150 gallon tank, and has many hiding spots as well as dither fish.

Anyways, I'd ask around and get second opinions from other members about compatibility, as my experience is fairly limited.

Some fish I would consider though are:
Firemouths
Severums ( if the cons won't tear them up )
Blue Acara ( Same deal )
Jack Dempsey
Chocolate cichlid ( not sure how it would work out, though )

and I suppose there are alot of other fish as well.

I think if you had alot of hiding spots in a large tank ( 75 gallons isn't bad! ) with relatively few cichlids and dither fish, AND you purchased other fish larger than the cons, you could have some pretty good luck. That way the cons wouldn't be as likely to attach a larger fish, yet they could still stake out territory. The dithers would distract them as well, and hiding spots help everyone.

Good luck...

[latazyo]

alright, one question, wo uldn't a dempsey get huge?
and I didn't know jewels were african...I am looking at:
4 convicts
2 firemouths
2 watever we decide on for the final pair, perhaps acaras or severums, but I dont' know anythign about either of the two, don't even know what they look like

as for hockey

yeah, I am not sure who their golaie is after Belfour left, but the western conference is always tougher (just a joke to that Devil's fan guy)

I hope the Avs do well, but after seeing them at the Excel Center, I think the Wild are straight up a better hockey team this year, and the Avs need to get their sh|t together

[Mattimeo]

Why not hemichromis? They require pretty much the same water conditions as chocolate cichlids, severums, and acaras. Majority of jewels you find in the lfs' are captive bred several generations, and thus would most likely have been raised quite a few generations in neutral ph water. I have kept jewels with centrals many times without qualms. As a matter of fact, I have a hemichromis payeni in one of my tanks, and am purchasing h. fasciatus and 6 h. frempongi (both are excessively aggressive and will be kept alone, as any c.a. partners I try will most likely end up shredded).

I still stick with my beliefs in these fish:

*4 convicts (try for 1 male and 3 females, 2 breeding pairs may be a bit much)
*3 jewel cichlids (mated pairs are hard to come by)
*pair firemouths (make sure that upon introduction, they are initially larger than the cons and jewels by an inch or 2)
*6-8 rainbowfish (maybe 10 if you want, like I said, red variety would look best with the cichlids IMO)
*3-4 anostomas or small leoporinus sp. (again, no large species and watch out for soft leaved plants)

[Ronne]

"about the convicts- they are only 1.5", so I don't know if they're "old enough" to breed yet or not, but they have been behaving suspicisously and the female REALLY likes to be in her cave, so I don 'know if there is some breeding goign on or not, they seem to "flirt" a lot, and I know they aren't fighting"

You may want to check the cave she REALLY likes to be in, she may have eggs in there. My convicts first bred at 1.5" and they're on their second batch of eggs in the last 5 weeks!

[latazyo]

Originally posted by Ronne
"about the convicts- they are only 1.5", so I don't know if they're "old enough" to breed yet or not, but they have been behaving suspicisously and the female REALLY likes to be in her cave, so I don 'know if there is some breeding goign on or not, they seem to "flirt" a lot, and I know they aren't fighting"

You may want to check the cave she REALLY likes to be in, she may have eggs in there. My convicts first bred at 1.5" and they're on their second batch of eggs in the last 5 weeks!


ok...get this

this morning I went to feed them, and as you probably know,t he second the light comes on and the lid is open they are up there waiting for food, this mornign I coudlnt' even see them, I put the food in their tank and waited, no sighting of them at all, then I began to panic and think they were dead, so I started lookin around, and sure enough, they are in fine health, they were just hiding in their cave, it was really bizarre, I hope they are breeding, this would be exciting for me

[Ronne]

If there are eggs in the cave and the temp is around 80 degrees they should hatch in 4 days. They will spend another 4 days or so on the cave b4 mom brings them out for a tour of the tank.

[latazyo]

I just checked my temp, it is about 75, shoudl I raise it?

[Anton Wernher]

your temp is fine

[Ronne]

I agree that your temp is fine too. If you indeed do have eggs, they will hatch a little faster in warmer water big it won't hurt them at all to be in cooler water.

Good luck and keep us posted!

[Zeb]

oh, I've seen cons breed at 1.5 inches.....it can happen.

And I still wouldn't go with Hemichromis, just because it's my personal preference not to mix fish from different areas. It's true they probably would do fine in the same water, and the same diet...not sure how their "body language" differs though.

About the severums -- all the pics I found online didn't look too great, but seeing them in person made me love them. Now I own two and I think they are GREAT. They can stand up to fish such as firemouths and cons,....but I'm not sure how blue acaras would do.

If I were you, I'd either pass on the cons or keep two females, or two males. But I certainly wouldn't do TWO breeding pairs. Seems like trouble to me.... from what I've read if you have two breeding cons in a community situation, they may try to kill all other tankmates.

Jewels are harder to mate as well, but i've heard they are MEAN when they do.

I've also read somewhere that to truly make rainbow fish school, you need a large tank with 10-15 fish and something to make them feel threatened. But I have no experience with that, it's just what I read.

And a Jack Dempsey would be fine, IMO...better chances of it with the cons, too. Females are smaller, usually 8 inches...and the biggest male I've seen was 12".

[Co/\/vict]

not allowed to have fun at this forum eh?

[latazyo]

excellent to hear Zeb, I've always wanted a Dempsey, but the Petco thing says "up to 15inches" so I dind't h8ink it would fit,b ut your information gives me new hope

alright, I have also heard from a friend that when you have 2 pairs of convicts, one of the pairs becomes dominant, and I wouldn't want that either

so here is the updated plan:

3 convicts (they are a must)
1 dempsey (sex to be determined)
2 firemouths (I like the way they look, but I will also take your other suggestions and look at severums to see if I like those too)
10-15 small schooling fish
and I'll try to get a bottom feeder, but I don't think anything will survive in that warzone

[Zeb]

I think you're wrong.... get an ancristrus/rubbernose plec. They can handle it, and their bristles have been said to protect their eyes from attacking fish.

As for the dithers, I'd suggest Silver Dollars. They're common, cheap, and I find mine to be quite enjoyable....

If you MUST get cons, why not just get your pair and leave it at that? You'll have the best chances that way, IMO.

And I'm certain a JD would be OK in the tank, IF and only IF you get one that isn't a terror. Sometimes they are shy, sometimes they are killers. I think if you get the fish at one time and raise them from when they are young you have a much better chance. Plus, other cichlids and dither fish will surely make the dempsey less reclusive.

[Co/\/vict]

bad idea man, 3 convicts, if they breed, can get mean, a jd is said to need a 55 to themselves, and I can vouch for that seeing as I own one, severums get 8"and can sometimes be aggressive, and convicts and firemouths fight eachother quite often (I have experience there too)

[Qsmon]

I see once again looking through this thread that the main point is lost at times because of lurkers .....this over some geographical dispute . The question was what could he put in his tank not whree it came from. All the expericenced thread watchers jump all over the bad advice .... Their knowledge no doubt is there but misdirected into some battle with someone who may think they know, rather than engaging someone who is looking to know.

I Think the Mods should move that stuff over to a new forum for battle royales...
for those who know and those that think they know!!!!:confused:

[latazyo]

alright....I think I can handle only having my original 2 convicts

CO/\/VICT-- you say the firemouths and convicts fight...is there another type of fish you'd suggest for this tank?

[undertow]

Sorry to go back to the topic of hockey,but the goaltender for the Dallas Stars is Marty Turco. Go BLACKHAWKS

[Number2]

Originally posted by Mattimeo
Why not hemichromis? They require pretty much the same water conditions as chocolate cichlids, severums, and acaras. Majority of jewels you find in the lfs' are captive bred several generations, and thus would most likely have been raised quite a few generations in neutral ph water. I have kept jewels with centrals many times without qualms. As a matter of fact, I have a hemichromis payeni in one of my tanks, and am purchasing h. fasciatus and 6 h. frempongi (both are excessively aggressive and will be kept alone, as any c.a. partners I try will most likely end up shredded).

I still stick with my beliefs in these fish:

*4 convicts (try for 1 male and 3 females, 2 breeding pairs may be a bit much)
*3 jewel cichlids (mated pairs are hard to come by)
*pair firemouths (make sure that upon introduction, they are initially larger than the cons and jewels by an inch or 2)
*6-8 rainbowfish (maybe 10 if you want, like I said, red variety would look best with the cichlids IMO)
*3-4 anostomas or small leoporinus sp. (again, no large species and watch out for soft leaved plants)


Just out of curiousity, and completely unrelated to the main thread , can you have any support fish (algae eaters, bottom feeders, ect) with Jewels or CA cichlids? Had a pair of Jewels once for a couple of weeks, and they had completely mauled my precious Kuhli Loaches. :mad: Had to give them away before I ended up flushing them down the toilet. 'Twas not a good day. :(

They're in a good home now, but I still miss that kuhli loach. <sigh> I did really enjoy the jewels when I had them though, and wouldn't mind someday setting up a tank for hemichromis. Thinking Dwarf Rainbows for dither fish.

Oh, and Go Vancouver Canucks!!! The 1 in 12 year run at the cup is approaching!! :D

[latazyo]

Originally posted by Number2
Oh, and Go Vancouver Canucks!!! The 1 in 12 year run at the cup is approaching!! :D


hahaha...I felt the same way with the Canadiens

[Co/\/vict]

good match now that I think about it, firemouths will easily survive, unless the cons breed, then it is over for it.

[Mattimeo]

I'd leave the dempsey out... with a max size of 10-12 inches, 2 cons would be hard pressed to take a fish that size on... they'd get stressed.

A 75g is ALOT of space, convicts use very little compared to alot of other cichlids. I've had breeding pairs of cons in a 35 community withouyt qualms... the other fish just gave them some space and that was it.

Provided the territories are defined, a breeding apir of jewels, a breeding pair of cons, and a breeding pair of firemouths can all live in a 75 with some targets. For example, I'd put a rock pile w/ cave in 1 corner, a rock pile with cave in another corner, and a bigger rockpile with 2 caves in the centre. Between each cave, I'd use large obstructions to block the views of the fish from other pairs; large pieces of driftwood with plants attached do nicely. also, if you'd like, to even the tank out, on each corner cave/pile you could stack it reasonably high and attach some plants so the corners don't look so low in comparison to the obsrtuctions.

Yes, bottom dwellers can be kept with breeding pairs of fish privided they are tough and stay well clear of the pair's territory. Khuli loaches are like worms, they'd get slaughtered after 2 bites. However, I'd rather not use any as at night, when the parents might be taking a quick rest, they'll eat the eggs and get killed by the pair. Many bottom dwellers are persistant and keep going back for eggs, each time taking a beating, until eventually you're left with no eggs and a beat to near death bottom dweller.

For targets/dithers, I'd use rainbows, as they are more colourful, won't eat plants, and aren't as big as silver dollars. With cichlids, I wouldn't use more than 4-5 silver dollars (and that's pushing it), whereas if you go rainbows, 8-9 isn't unreasonable and leaves space for a little something extra (not another cichlid though).

[Mr.Jingles]

Guys, I dont think it was necissary to flame Convict after he was told once why people correct eachother. Im sure he wasnt feeling too great about it, as his post suggested, so why highten the tension by being aggressive towards him. Your post may have sounded gentle to you, but certain words or phraises can easily be misenterpreted as flamming. Anton Wernher did a nice job of explaining it and Convict didnt fight back. So be warry of when and what you post.

I personally have blue acaras and find them to be cool fish. I havent had them long enough to know them, but I would recamend (sp?) them for any semi-large tank. They arent too agressive and they look nice as they get older.

Ive heard jewlels can be very aggressive fish when breeding. Convicts, ive heard, will kill other convicts, if not other fish, in the tank while they are breeding. Firemouths dont have a reputation of being too agressive. I havent tried firemouths before, but my bro has and the one that he kept was fairly nice to the inhabitants of the tank.

so, yeah...you could also go for a ton of Dwarf Cichlids from SA. Or just make it a cool African tank. Or a CA. I recamend going one or the other, but dont mix. You could also do a search on central american cichlids and save yourself the trouble of waiting for replies.

hope your tank turns out great.

[latazyo]

well...I already have the pair of convicts and I REALLY like them, and this will be their new home, so I just need some suggestions of fisht to add with them

I am very into natural lookin tanks, so I have plenty of large rocks and slate, etc so I think the fish will have plenty of places to make territory

ummm.....so
2 cons
2 fires
2 jewels
2 acaras, hemichromis, or 1 JD

the last line is the line in question


ALSO...I plan to move the common pleco that is in with the convicts into the 75, do you think I should move him in BEFORE the cichlids to better his chances of making it, etc, because then the convicts won't think he's invadaing their tank

[Mattimeo]

Ex the last line... cons, firemouths, and jewels can all get upwards of 4 inches, and if you have 2, I assume you'll have breeding pairs, and the remaining unpaired fish will be constantly beaten down.

IMO for this tank to work, you'd need good sized quick target fish. Trust me on this and get some nice rainbowfish, they do great in natural tanks and will provide a distraction to keep the cichlids away from each other's throats.

[Mr.Jingles]

cons, fmouths, and jewels all get upward of 6 inches. blue acrackheads arent as aggressive as them, but I think they can fend for themselves, although my females bicker and the smaller of the two gets a little tattered from running, so I dont know how much they will fend themselves.

jewels are africans arent they? wouldnt it make more sense to get another type of CA cichlid? maybe a platy...

how bout something like a Salvini?

[latazyo]

I am only learning about cichlids, my choice to get jewels was based on teh advice of above posts, anyways, I'm not really sure what some of the suggestions look like or what they are like as fish

and by good sized target fish....what do you guys mean...do you mean fish like neon tetras, or fish like german blue rams?

if anyone can offer their opinions or even pics of hemichromis, salvini, or blue acaras, please let me know


ALSO- I was thinking of this the other day...if I make an area about 1/2 inch tall and kind of wide, do you think my kuhli loaches would survive since they'd have a place to go where the cichlids couldn't get in?

[Mattimeo]

By target fish, I'd use rainbowfish (the red ones IMO would look best) or giant danios. IMO rainbows are quicker and more resistant to depth charges by cichlids.

here's a hemichromis lifalilli (red forest jewel cichlid), BTW I'm not taking credit for this photo/fish as it's not mine:
http://arofanatics.com/members/jamaicanflo/assortedpredators/image36.jpg

Here is my show male salvini (most sals don't have this much colour):
http://arofanatics.com/members/jamaicanflo/assortedpredators/image34.jpg
http://arofanatics.com/members/jamaicanflo/assortedpredators/image22.jpg

I would definately not reccomend salvinis for a 75g community. They will terrorize and kill off the other cichlids in there (they are small guapotes). My show male is only 3.5 inches, and he rules a 90g, keeping a 4.5 inch texas and 4.5 inch jack dempsey in the corner. When they breed, they go absolutely berzerk. I had a 6.5 inch male breed with a 4.5 inch female in a 55g, and they killed every single tankmate over the span of 1 night. IMO best left for species tanks or with larger, more aggressive fish.
Even if you get 1 sal, it would still most likely dominate. I had another 3.5 inch male sal who was in another 55g with a breeding pair of cons that were 4 and 3.5 inches. They were about to lay eggs (just finished cleaning the slate) when the salvini came along, beat them both down, and had them up in the top corner all ragged in under 10 minutes. I had to remove him becuase of aggression.

Leave khuli loaches out. As soon as they come out (for food, etc.) the cichlids will catch them and devour them.

[latazyo]

alright, the salvinis are out...I've seen the red forest before and they are a good looking fish

I have not seen rainbows for sale around here, but when I looked on liveaquaria.com they were about 15 dollars each...

isn't there a target fish I can get that will not be about 6 times more expensive than my cichlids??

I already have a school of neon tetras, but would they be too slow/small to avoid being eaten?

[Mr.Jingles]

i dont know much about central americans, that why i suggested the salvini.

anyways. tetras are way to small a fish for larger cichlids. giant danios are large enough and fast enough. and cheap.

[CyberDrgn]

Neon tetras wouldn't last long at all. Giant danios are fast and too big for smaller cichlids to eat, but you could probably use the 50 cent danios(zebra?) also. Just buy more if they get eaten.

[inxs]

Matt - when you have had problems with aggression between cichlids , especially the salvinis, was that fish that were raised together from smaller size?

Or did you add an adult fish to other adult community?

Also do you have a lot of structure? I mean a LOT.

One way to minimize aggression ,IMO , when adding adult fish is to rearrange some of the decorations to break up the terratory lines and add some new ditherfish to take the cichlics minds off each others.

However adding adults to other adults, adding fish into an establiched tank with established borders and adding together mated pairs can often lead to serious fighting and it may not be the instigator that emerges victorious.