dieing platys

[jennypenny]

Over the past week I have had some very sad platy deaths. At first I thought it was do to a filter problem, but that no longer seems to be the case. I give you the whole story, then any suggestions would be helpful.

In May I had a health well established tank of three platys, one swordtail, one cory cat, and a few small platy fry. Then I went away for Memorial Day. Before I left I did a small water change of about 15-20% (I had done larger water change earlier I the week). I also gave the fish a hearty meal (there are also live plants in the tank). All part of my normal going away routine. I was gone 4 days.

When I returned my filter had been clogged by the leaves of the one fake plant in the tank. The fish must have broken them off somehow. The filter was down to the tiniest trickle. Obviously I am not sure when the clog happened. The fry and one platy was dead (She the meekest of all my fish and if any fish had some stress it was her). I tested the water and my nitrate was a little high, but the rest of my parameters were good. I have continued testing as have not had any sign of ammonia or nitrite.

Anyway I did a huge water change and decided to keep any eye on everybody. Since then my other two platy have had clamped fins and my other female (a very dominate fish) has bee porn to hiding. At first I was hoping that she was just getting picked on because I now had a 1:1 male, female ratio. But she started to loose color over the course of the week ad the male also had clamped fins. I have continued to do water changes and test. Yesterday the female was swimming around more and I saw her eating, so I was hopeful, but this morning she was dead. The male still has clamped fins, but is acting normal. The swordtail and cory have looked perfectly fine the entire time (Actually they are older fish the I inherited from someone else).

Well any thoughts or suggestion? I actually have some other fry that I would like to move into the tank soon, but not until I clear up whatever is affecting the other platys.

[tricksterpup]

Jenny,
I am not sure what this could be, what is your current temp in your tank? Sometimes live bearers get kinda picky on temp. But I have a feeling that it was stress that took them in. Many types of platies are just not healthy, plus going from the breeders then to the fish store and to you can cause the fish to stress out. The reason why those other fish did well for you is that they were at the previous owner's for a while before coming to you. They had time to relax and ease to being moved. I would just wait a few more weeks or a full month before adding any more fish. And then give them a try, go to your lfs and watch the fish and ask to see them feed. Also ask the shop where they got thier fish. If its a local breeder Bonus, those are pretty healthy fish over a fish farm.

[jennypenny]

I'm certain it isn't moving stress I have had these fish for months, they have bred interacted like normal platys. As far as temp. that might be a cause it did get warm recently, but the tank has only been a few degrees above or below 79* where I typically keep the tank.

[tricksterpup]

I'm certain it isn't moving stress I have had these fish for months, they have bred interacted like normal platys. As far as temp. that might be a cause it did get warm recently, but the tank has only been a few degrees above or below 79* where I typically keep the tank.
hmmmm.. have you checked your water hardness. I would go in and check and see what it is at.


A Livebearer aquarium, in the purist sense, would have a significantly hard/alkaline water chemistry (dGH 30 degrees/pH value 7.5 to 8.2) which is in conflict with the Tetra and Dwarf Cichlid species with which they are frequently housed. It is very convenient for both the industry and the hobbyist that some of these Livebearers are able to compromise in this regard and live comfortably in the medium soft water (dGH 5-12 /pH value 7) of a general community.

[mduros]

trickster, Couldn't something like this just have a snowball effect because of the filter episode last week? Meaning the fish got stressed and they are still stressed and will succumb to any stress related illness that they are vulnerable to?

jennypenny, I might do a water change and use prime to help promote their slime coat a little.
Take care,
Mary.

[tricksterpup]

trickster, Couldn't something like this just have a snowball effect because of the filter episode last week? Meaning the fish got stressed and they are still stressed and will succumb to any stress related illness that they are vulnerable to?

jennypenny, I might do a water change and use prime to help promote their slime coat a little.
Take care,
Mary.
That is true.. could have been from the filter issue.
but Jenny is doing water changes, so I am at a loss here. With out actually seeing the tank, I am not sure what is the culprit. (i am a hands on type of guy) But you know you may be right, it could be a combination of weak fish from poor genes along with the filter issue. I have seen weirder things happen.

[jennypenny]

My test strips are not supper accurate, but my water is a little alkaline. My best guess is that there has been some underlying problem that the fish were healthy enough to avoid until the filter wet down. I just do not try and treat something before I know what it is. It is just frustrating.
:confused:

[jwddboy]

id advise that you get a proper water test kit not strips.

Secondly I would say dont worry about the hardness, most fish will be absolutely fine if you adjust them properly.

Trird: try getting a general tonic ehile your fish are weak, to keep the background levels at bay.

Lastly: Keep up those changes and remember to dechlorinate the water

:)

[tricksterpup]

id advise that you get a proper water test kit not strips.

Secondly I would say dont worry about the hardness, most fish will be absolutely fine if you adjust them properly.

Trird: try getting a general tonic ehile your fish are weak, to keep the background levels at bay.

Lastly: Keep up those changes and remember to dechlorinate the water

:)
Actually hardness matters to Live bearers, its the akalinity that doesnt matter.
Plus Tonics are bunk, and a waste of money. She has done most of the things right as with doing water changes.

[jwddboy]

I use a very effective tonic actually. I have never got a single infection in the tank i use it on, even when tranferring fish from a "not quite recovered from ich" tank.

also... you say they will like hard (agreed) but will live fine in medium/soft water?! Surely that means that they aren't that picky... like I said...

[jennypenny]

I should have been clearer, my ammonia, nitrate, ad nitrite test are great, it is only the ph ad hardness tests that are test strips. And the water is on the hard side.

I know meds can further stress fish if you give the wrong one, so I think I'm left with few options other than water changes. (Plus only the platys have had any signs of disease). On the plus side my male is looking lively now.

[CJC]

All I have ever owned is Platies, and I recently went through the same thing that you did, all at once they were dying and I couldn't figure out to what I did wrong or what was wrong w/ my tank. I lost all of my females, all the fry, and all but 2 males.

I did water changes, checked the param's on a weekly basis. I took water to the LFS (very reputable might I add, not like the petco's or petsmarts) and they checked my water....everything fine. And still my platies were dying. I got so frustrated that I couldn't see strait, and when I came here I got some wonderful advice and even some of the members made me rethink some of the things that I was doing.

Now, when and where did you buy your platies at? The reason I ask is b/c if you did purchase them from the LFS (like a Petco or Petsmart) then they very well could have a weak immune system, and since your filter wasn't working correctly then that would cause them stress, which will lead to thier death. My platies were dying b/c of old age-plain and simple.

Of course, I am no expert in the regards to everything that there is to know, and there may be somebody out there that knows a million times more than me! I would keep doing the water changes, adding the declorinator, and watching them very closely. I hope that they pull through it!
Charity

[twig]

its pretty hard to kill a platy imo ... >.>

My uncle was given one as a kid and he threw it in a fish bowl and put it in the shed and then forgot about it all summer ...

When he finally went back in there near the end of summer the platy was still alive and kicking even though there was only an inch or so of water left...

O.o

[CJC]

Oh I very much agree that a platy is hard to kill, they are hardy and lively! However, it doesn't keep them immune from old age or weak immune systems, let alone any other type of diseases that could enter an aquarium. I've had some of my platies for years and then again, I've had some that only lived for a few days b/c of reasons unknown! And it wasn't anything that I was doing wrong, it was b/c of the way that they were treated and handled before I recieved them.

Now to throw one in a fish bowl and then leave it in a shed for the whole summer just goes to show that the particular platy your Uncle was given must have been one heck of a survivor!
Charity

[jennypenny]

I have had the fish for about 7 months (one a little less because I did have a origial female die from soon aftter I bought her, she was small and got stuck i the filter), ad from the best fish shop i town. So, I really do not think it is an issue of old age, but anything is possible?

It is nice to know that someone else has had similar problems. Thaks for the suport.

[Marinemom]

Try adding aquarium salt. Livebearers like salt in thier water especially if the water is a little on the hard side. How long has the tank been set up and how big is it? Do yourself a favor and go get another testing kit. Aquarium pharmaceuticals makes a freshwater master test kit that is pretty reliable.

Marinemom

[tricksterpup]

Try adding aquarium salt. Livebearers like salt in thier water especially if the water is a little on the hard side. How long has the tank been set up and how big is it? Do yourself a favor and go get another testing kit. Aquarium pharmaceuticals makes a freshwater master test kit that is pretty reliable.

Marinemom
Sorry Marinemom, this is actually one of the biggest Myths in our hobby. Most livebearers need hardness not salinity added to their water. People use it as a tonic but it will cause more problems with captive bred fish in the long run. Wild Mollies may see salt water but most don't. And where Platies are found there is no access to salt. They are not fish that live in most estuaries, they tend to be found in streams in central America.

[CJC]

If you bought the fish from a reputable fish store in town and you trust that thier fish aren't weaklings, then perhaps they could help you diagnosis the problem. I know that there have been numerous times I went to my LFS and they have helped me tremendously! That is just a thought!

How is everything going today? Are they still acting funny? Another question for you: before you left did you add anything to the tank out of the normal routine you usually do?

[jwddboy]

Sorry Marinemom, this is actually one of the biggest Myths in our hobby. Most livebearers need hardness not salinity added to their water. People use it as a tonic but it will cause more problems with captive bred fish in the long run. Wild Mollies may see salt water but most don't. And where Platies are found there is no access to salt. They are not fish that live in most estuaries, they tend to be found in streams in central America.

However salt will kill parasites in the water to an extent that they will not harm fish any longer but, as always, will often still be present. A small ammount of salt will not harm them.

[jennypenny]

The one platy left is actually behaving much better. Although, the swordtail is being a little more aggressive toward him than usual. It is not uncommon for them to display to one another. My guess is he will make it though. My biggest concern now is that I don’t want to introduce my healthy fry to the tank not knowing what was wrong.

No I had not added anything unusual to the tank. I suppose if everything is looking up in a few weeks or so, I will consider adding the growing fry. I may have to chalk this one up to an unsolvable mystery (but I’ll still take any of your educated guesses).

Thanks for all the help.

[jwddboy]

glad to hear its getting better. Sounds like you have got everything under control though. Well done.

[tricksterpup]

However salt will kill parasites in the water to an extent that they will not harm fish any longer but, as always, will often still be present. A small ammount of salt will not harm them.
But healthy tanks do not have parasites and you only want to treat for parasites when you have them. So why treat for ick when you dont have it?? Again this is all part of the Great Myth. These fish do not need salt but hard water



I use a very effective tonic actually. I have never got a single infection in the tank i use it on, even when tranferring fish from a "not quite recovered from ich" tank.

also... you say they will like hard (agreed) but will live fine in medium/soft water?! Surely that means that they aren't that picky... like I said...
.


Where do you find your advice?? I never had any infections in my tanks cause my fish are not stressed and healthy. There is never a need for any tonics or anything like this.

[jwddboy]

(i was simply stating what salt would do in a tank. P.s. all tanks have ich in small doses, it is because of this that weak fish allow it into their body and the amount of ich in the tank increases)

where do i find my advice? I use years of keeping and breeding fish as my basis if thats what you are asking. There are obviously cases when fish do become stressed and unhealthy and those cases (I find) can be much less frequent. The tank i use it on is a hospital/quarantine tank and all fish moved into there are fully recovered within from a day or two to a few weeks. If you do not want to use them then that is absolutely fine but I find that saying all brands of it do not work is simply a bit of an oversight. It may however be the case that some brands are not effective at all. It may also be the case that you rather use other chemicals in larger doses than a few drops per water change. In any case I believe that for me, it works and I am happy to carry on using it.

[CJC]

It sounds like perhaps things are leveling out for you, which is good. I am just sorry that I couldn't offer you some more advice or even a solution to the problem that you were expierencing.

Good luck!

[dockwats]

Platies are pretty hardy fish. Even with the water being slightly hard it shouldn't have caused them to "die off" so quickly imo. My guess would be that the stress of the filter being blocked and having more stagnant water (who know's what type of microorganisms sprouted) allowed a system where the platies immune systems may have been comprimised (by a specific microbe).

Someone mentioned Petco or Petsmart having platies with weak immune systems. This may be true. I bought several some months ago from Petsmart and had two die from similar description in the OP. Clamped fins and one began to fade in color and hover around in a cave. They both passed while the 3 others (including some from a no name lps) remained in better health (1 actually pretty robust).

[khombre]

(all tanks have ich in small doses, it is because of this that weak fish allow it into their body and the amount of ich in the tank increases)

r u sure about this? :look: