Important Cycling Question - Please Help!!! ASAP

[Blaizze]

I was told by every pet store I went to that all I would need to do would be purchase the tank, I got a starter kit, and set it up, leave it running for a day or two, then it would be fine to place a few fish in it, then more the next week and so on.

I got the 29 Gallon, set the tank up, and put in 3 Java Fern and 2 Malayan Aqau Fern... then let the tank run a bit shy of 48 hours when I put the fish in.

I put in 4 Guppies and 2 Gold Gouramis.

Now I'm finding out about a proper cycling process and ammonia levels spiking etc... I'm worried I'm going to lose all my fish and they're going to die... One female now is "resting" on the bottom moving her fins but not swimming around, then occasionaly she wll swim around, and then rest again... She was also swimming around alone near the top of the aquarium earlier.

The rest of the Guppys are staying together aside from her.

I also added 3 Baby Tears plants yesterday.

I don't have a testing kit for anything other then PH which is reading 7... I can't get a testing kit for anything until tommorow.

What can I do to save my fish and help them through the cycling process. Should I be changing the water a bit tonight as well without even knowing the ammonia levels?

Please help me... this is my first tank ever purchased and I really want to get into the hobby and set up some beautiful aquariums.

Thanks for all the help and support here

[Lorazoo]

You can do a water change. Try about 30%. Some say 25, some say 50, so i say do in between. I would go tomorrow and get yourself a freshawter kit which has pH, Ammonia, Nitrite and Nitrate. Also get yourself a water hardness kit. Gouramis are a very sensitive fish to water quality and probably weren't the best fish to get to cycle a tank with. Water change and get the tests and then test everything tomorrow and post it. You can do another water change tomorrow if need be, but give it at least 12 hours in between. Post the results first. And don't listen to those fish stores any more. Most of them don't know what they are talking about.

Hopefully you won't loose any fish, but if you do, it will be a learning lesson. We all go through them.

Also, let us know the size of the tank and what kind of filter you have and what you have in it.

Hopefully you'kll have good news tomorrow.

[Blaizze]

Thanks, well currently its a 29 Gallon and I'm running an Aquaclear 30...

When I get the tests, and the ammonia spikes, how can you bring it down.. is it just dependant on how hardy the fish are and if they survive it or not?

[ggrowney]

I also experienced something similar. However, you will find the fervor on this site about cycling etc. to overstate the issue in my opinion. I had 3 tanks as a kid/teenager and never heard the word cycle. I did infrequent water changes and never had any noticeable mortalities. I suspect that I established a cycle and the fish simply survived the contaminants (no particularly sensitive species). I now have a tank that appears to have fully cycled and it does appear to create a more stable environment.

My advice is read everything you can on this site and don't panic about your fish (the gourami's might be a little sensitive and may warrant a temporary home elsewhere). Follow the advice of the experts (not me) and do perform some frequent water changes.

[twig]

I cycled with 4 Danios and everything went fine for me. The Danios didn't show any sign of woe and when I returned them they were fat and happy.

I didn't monitor my ammonia or nitrite levels at the time (No kit :o) but I did a 25% water change every 4-5 days .. Then I started introducing my cardinals. Six first, then 3 3 4 and only had small ammonia spikes (barely readable) as a result.

If you do water changes you ought to be just fine. *shrug*

Next time I will be cycling it with ammonia though. I didn't know any better at the time and just did what the lfs told me.

[Linden]

Hi buddy,
I'm only a few years into fishes too, but I was pretty slavish to the norm about cycling - the book said get a water test kit and only add fish when the nitrite level was zero - and even then expect to lose a 'hardy' fish. Fortunately, my (responsible) local fish store was firm with me when I wanted to jump the gun and add fish early.

I'm sorry but I dont have any ideas on how to make your fish live. They may still muscle through. The thing is, a colony of bacteria that eat the 'breathing' and excrement products of fish needs to built up in your tank. These bacteria have to coat alot of surfaces to deal with the fish byproducts. Maybe frequent water changes would replace that in a young tank - I don't know.

It sad if your current fish die. I would sugget going cheap and hardy and small for the first fish in a tank. Just pay attention to what will be happiest in your tank size. Fish were be the cheapest part of my getting started in the hobby.

[Blaizze]

Appreciate all the replies... No other option then to sit it out, change the water and begin testing levels.

This may sound like a dumb question, but how exactly should I go about changing the water?

I live in the city, so should I be filling up a bucket, adding the de-chlorinizor and letting it sit for a while before adding it to the tank? Or do I just add the water into the tank removing the old water and add the Aqua Plus into the tank?

[twig]

I use a Python. It attaches to the sink and carries the water from my tank down a tube to the sink.. It has a siphon to clean the gravel. When i've changed out the amount I wanted I just go to the sink, twist the dial, and the python starts filling the tank ...

:D Really neat and theres no buckets.. MwuahahHAHahhaha

I also add my aqua plus where the stream is hitting the tank.

When you treat for chlorine make sure you add enough for the whole tank and not the amount of water you're putting in the tank.

So, for your 29gallon, you should add three capfulls ...

[onepawnup]

I also use a python and highly recomend it

but i just add water treatment for the water im replacing.Is this wrong ??
anyone else >>??

[THEJRC]

Well I may not be the best source of info considering I havent had a tank set up in almost a decade (used to do a lot of brackish and cichlid tanks before). Buuuuutt.... In the real world not many people who first set up an aquarium ever hear the word cycle or understand it's need. You may have had better luck starting much much more slowly with adding your fish (one two three for the first few weeks is a good rule) and obviously your new dwellers are in shock. They may power through though with no problems.

I would definately do the water change, as far as conditioning the water if you have chemical use it, I got in the habit when I was first into it to keep 5 gallon jugs of standing water around (around 3-5 days old) just for my water changes, most times I would pre-treat but I found a long time ago that adding water @ room temp thats had time to sit tended to be a lot less stressfull for the fish. You may want to set aside enough pre-treated water for a 10-15% water change later tomorrow in the event that the first change doesnt lower your spike.

[D-Bak]

I am also currently fish cycling a ten gallon tank.... and i had just about the same amount of knowledge as you do now 3 weeks ago when i started....

Just rememeber to ask every question you can think of on this site and you will be amazed how much you learn.....

As far as the water changes... I have been doing 10 percent every day to try to eliminate a spike of any kind and it has been working very well.... so what i do is fill up a gallon jug of water.... treat it... and then the next day after i get back from work i use that water for the replacement... and as soon as i am done.... i fill it back up, treat it.. and wait for tomarrow to roll around... I have found that the water is almost the exact same temperature as the water I am taking out... which is a neccessity in order not to shock the fish...

I haven't swept the gravel yet, but just in case you dont know, you will need a python (mechanical) or just a regular syphon (non mechanical) to do this. Neither are that expensive and the syphon runs for about 5 bucks at the store. After you get that then you can kill two birds with one stone. You get all of the access waste off of the bottom, and remove as much water as you want....

Hope this helps and dnt forget to ask about anything else you are curious about... the inormation accessable on this site is truly amazing....

[Akysten]

If I were you, I would do at least a 15% water change(to be safe) and get test kits NOW! If you detect Ammonia higher than 2.0(assuming ph7 and 77degrees) do a 10-15% water change, but not more than once per day.

The good news is that at PH 7 and a 77 degrees, your fish can survive up to 3.0ppm ammonia.... not that you would want it to get that high but some news is good news. As PH and temps drop, ammonia is more tolerable, as they rise, it become less tolerable. See chart belowm numbers are Ammonia PPM(credit to thekrib.com). If your numbers approach these take Emergency action!

Water Temperature
pH (68F) (77F)
_________________________________
6.5 15.4 11.1
7.0 5.0 3.6
7.5 1.6 1.2
8.0 0.5 0.4
8.5 0.2 0.1




Also, Bio Spira can help jumpstart the process. Ideally, if you add this with your fish, dangerous spikes are averted as the bacteria will start the cycle AS the ammonia is being produced. Since you already have a substantial amount of ammonia, your benifit will be in jumpstarting the nitrite AND nitrate portions of the cycle, cutting down total cycle time.. possibly by weeks. Results to vary, but in your situation, it may be worth it. For a 29g, a 1oz pack should do, but you can't overdose! It will work, but remember, if needs to be handled properly... so keeping it refrigerated is important, and do not use it along with any ammonia detox products... other than the initial use of a dechloriator such as BioSafe or Prime.

[Blaizze]

Well I don't have a ride to the pet store today... now I'm worried

One guppy didn't survive the night... the one staying close to the bottom... the rest of the fish look fine so far.

My pump is pumping in two hoses with air right now for oxygen.

Problem is I don't have a marked bucket to tell how many gallons I'm removing and I need to purchase a syphon and testing kits. I tried to put some water in last night and remove a bit, but only put in half of what I removed because it was too difficult to tell. It also appeared to drive the fish crazy when I changed it, they were frantically swimming around afterwards along the windows etc.. for awhile ... I put aqua plus in both it and the tank.

Worried for my fish if I can't get a ride today... I know tommorow I will have one but that might be too late? They look healthy currently... :/

[TheZoo]

do another water change. Id do it after somehting dies, for sure. Do you ave anything you can use as a siphon? A longish flexible (clean) hose? If not, just scoop out water, but get a siphon for sure for poop removal. Scoop into a bucket/bowl/plastic container, dump, refil container however many times you filled it - use your water conditioner, try to have temps very similar. You can eyeball the amount youre removing, look at your tank and draw an imaginary line at the halfway mark. If you remove water down to there, thats about a 50% water change.

[Akysten]

Did we forget to mention that the water needs to be a similar temp to what's aready in the ttank?

It's save to guess in this scenario... do you have a measuring cup in the kitchen? 2 cups? It will take a while, but 8 of these would be a gallon. Refilling is the EASY part.. fill it up to wherever you want. You can also eyeball what you're taking out. Guestimate about 1/5th of the tank.

Items like Prime or other dechlorinators often detox the ammonia... into a form not harmful to fish. This can hurt your tank cycle though.

[Goatman]

Prime and Amquel do not alter how a cycle works. NH3 (the bad ammonia), and NH4+ (the not-bad ammonia) are both consumed by the bacteria that reduce ammonia to nitrite.

[Roan Art]

I also use a python and highly recomend it

but i just add water treatment for the water im replacing.Is this wrong ??
anyone else >>??
Treat for the whole tank if you are using a Python.

Roan

[Lorazoo]

Treat for the whole tank if you are using a Python.

Roan
Is there any reason why? I have a 120. Treating the whole tank every time i do a water change will get a bit exspensive. I have been treating for just the water replaced and haven't seen any adverse reactions so far.

[Roan Art]

Is there any reason why?When you add the dechlor to the tank it becomes dilluted with the existing water. If you treat for the whole tank then there is enough there to ensure that there is enough dechlor in the water to handle the new water you are putting in.

AND. . and the instructions on my bottle say so ;)


I have a 120. Treating the whole tank every time i do a water change will get a bit exspensive. Ugh. What kind of dechlor are you using that you need that much? I have a 1 gallon bottle of Prime that I use for all my tanks -- 3 75gs, 65g, blah it's all in my sig. I've had this bottle for at least six MONTHS and it's not even half gone. I do 2 x 50% water changes on all my rainbowfish tanks per week and 1 x 50% on all the other tanks. 1 capful of the 1 gallon jug treats 100 gallons.


I have been treating for just the water replaced and haven't seen any adverse reactions so far.It probably depends on how much water you are replacing. I do 50% or more every time.

Roan