Fish Dying - Algae Problems - Temp/PH issues

Jolly,
First. Buy your own test kit, and test your own water. Get the Aquarium Pharmaceuticals kit that uses tubes and chemicals. Second, it sounds like you're new to this. Is that correct? Or am I making an assumption? If you are new, your tank has been cycling with some fish that are sensitive to water chemistry. I don't think this has anything to do with your ph, so stop using that junk. I don't know if you have any fish left, but if you do, start doing daily water changes 30 - 50 percent for a few days until you steady things in your tank out. Clown loaches will grow too big for the 55 gallon, pick out something that is smaller, such as yoyo or zebra loaches. I also believe that the bala would have outgrown the tank, too. Hopefully others can answer that. Typically tropical fish do well in mid to high 70s for water temperature. Can't help you with the cloudy water, probably due to a bacterial bloom. But we need more information to be of any real help, i.e. how long has the tank been set up for, when did you add the fish, etc.
Take care,
Mary.

Jolly Mon,

There is no need to add stuff to your tank to "manage" the pH. Unless you are really on the extreme side, fish don't care about pH at all.

What they *do* care about is everything else in the water -- including algae destroyer, Phos Zorb, pH modifying chemicals and anything else you throw in the tank that is not a simple water conditioner. All those things will change your water chemistry and make it difficult for your fish to survive. Fish have to change their bodies every time the water changes, or varies, in "thickness". Every time you add something, you "thicken" the water. When you do a waterchange, you thin it again. Then you thicken it. That's really hard on the fish.

The best way to keep a tank healthy is to keep it simple: don't add stuff to the water unless it's to treat for chlorine or chloramine or you are fertilizing plants et al. If your fish get sick, make sure you know what kind of meds you are going to through in your tank and what they may do to the fish or biofilter.

Now, can you tell me something about that algae destroyer? All those fish that you have indicated that died will eat algae from time to time. I'd like to know what you used so I can research and see if the algae killer may have killed your fish. I don't know if it would or if it's possible. I need to research it.

As for the temperature, 70 AND 75 are too cold for most tropicals IMO. Especially clowns -- they prefer warmer water of around 78-79*

BTW, the tinfoil barb will get too big for that tank. They grow to 14" and it won't be able to turn around very well in a 13" deep tank.

Roan

My clowns prefer the water at 82...their activity is dramatically different at 79. With temp and pH the important thing is not to make drastic changes all at once. When you alter pH, though you are only going up a point something, the jumps are actually exponential. So if you alter your water .2, it isn't that bad, but if you go from 6.8 to 7.4 chemically (which is almost instantaneous) you'll really effect your fish. I have link somewhere explainging this in detail if you want. It is easily googled though.

I agree with the other stuff about adding chemicals.

ALSO if you have an algae problem, make sure you find the source of the problem and fix it or you'll continue to have an algae problem...lots of natural light, over feeding, or some other imbalance caused the algae. A good non-chemical way to fix it in the future is simply to wrap the tank in a towel for a few days (5 or six I think). Plantgeek.net has useful info on identifying and erradicating algae.

take it slow, do your research and go for natural remedies and you'll find success! Good luck!

Thanks Jolly,
I looked up your previous posts before you responded and saw that you had some experience. Let me say this, when I set up my 55 gallon last summer, it was my first tank in 25 years. I had alot of problems cycling that thing but mainly because I didn't know what I was doing and had alot to learn. After the tank cycled, the water was cloudy and green for probably 2 months. And yes, I had an algae problem. I have included a couple of pictures from then a couple of more recent ones.

Circa Nov. 2005




And April (?) 2006




Granted, the tank looked terrible. The water was cloudy and green, I had algae all over the place, but after the cycle was done, my fish stopped dying on me. I didn't care how the tank "looked" just that everyone was healthy and happy. I added a couple of albino bristlenose plecos, bought some acryllic safe scrubbers, made sure I kept up the weekly water changes, never blacked out the tank and just waited out the cloudy water. Eventually it did go on it's own. I never used chemicals, thanks to this list! And most of the original plants from the beginning are still with me now. Also, doing just fine.

I guess my point is... Don't use any chemicals in the tank. Your problem is ugly, but not permanent and harmless. I hope this helps.
Take care,
Mary.

Did some reading.

Algae Destroyer, made by AP, contains Simazine and several people have reported fish loss that they feel is due to this stuff. What is consistant is the types of fishes they've lost. Everyone has lost the same types of fish after using Simazine:

catfish (includes loaches), minnows, barbs (reports of rosy barbs, however Odessa barbs are rather "rare" and hard to get), cichlids

Genus and specie within the families and orders varies.

From the Skeptical Aquarist on Simazine:

[Simazine is a] pre-emergent herbicide that doesn't bind to sediments nor evaporate; in fact it's persistent for "a few months to a few years,"​

http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/algae/algcont.shtml
Couple hits from more "visible" sites:

http://badmanstropicalfish.com/mb/mb47.html
http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Algae/simazine.html
http://parrotcichlid.com/article.php?sid=1255

This is not "proven", but IMO could be very real in your tank.

Roan

oh yeah. I would do like 50% every day or so for a couple weeks to get that out of the system.

for what it's worth, I've read that the best way to handle an algae bloom (which is what it sounds like the original problem was) is to just do lots of water changes until it goes away. personally it sounds like a lot of work as opposed to squirting in some herbicide, but you really don't want something like that in your tank and I think you'll find that it's worth the extra effort to use water changes instead of poisons. herbicide is a fancy word for poison as far as I'm concerned

LunchBox said:

oh yeah. I would do like 50% every day or so for a couple weeks to get that out of the system.

Click to expand...

If you can, I would go with what LunchBox is suggesting.

As I said, it's not proven and there's not a lot out there, but then again a lot of people don't use algicides.

From The Krib on Simazine being tested on aquarium fish rather than native bluegills et al:

"A study performed in India where some of their local fish were tested is
probably of more interest to aquarists. They examined Punctius tico (rosy
barb) as well as Tilapia mossambicum and Heteropneustes fossilis. The study
found increased hyperactivity, measured by opercular beats per minute, and
mortality at concentrations around 1 mg/l; it suggested a safe limit of 0.1 mg/l
for Punctius tico and Tilapia mossambicum. In my own experience, I lost adult
Geophagus steindachneri and newly hatched convict cichlid fry in within days
of treating with simazine. Collectively, this information suggests that simazine
toxicity will be highly variable among fish species and or aquarium conditions."​

The clincher to me is that the fish you had die match what others have had die, although the genus, and species, differ.

It's not that I'm not convinced. My instincts tell me that this probably the crux of your problem. I just wish there was more information available on the toxicity in aquarium fish so that I could advise on a course of action.

The Skeptical Aquarist does say that it does not bid to sediments. He also says that it kills the algae "from the inside out" <-- my phrasing. In other words: are the fish dying because they are ingesting leftover algae that contains Simazine or are they dying because it is in the water?

Again, all the fish that I've read that have been suspected as poisoned by this are algae eaters.

I would, at this point, recommend the following course of action:

1. Remove all your decorations, wood, ect.,. and scrub them thoroughly to remove any algae that may be left or any leftover algicide. Don't forget the heater and thermometer and scrub the outside of the filter as well as you can.

2. Scrub the tank walls throughly with algae pads and leave the filter running so that most of anything floating around gets sucked into the filter

3. Wait at least 30 mins for stuff to settle and do a 50% water change with INTENSE vacuuming of the substrate to pick up anything that falls off the walls of the tank while you are scrubbing.

4. Clean your filter pads as thoroughly as you can and you will probably have to use tap water. Old tank water will contain what we are trying to remove. Prepare for a mini cycle.

I would repeat steps 2, 3 and 4 daily for at least 3 days and you'll probably have to keep up water changes until the tank is back on track with the bacteria. Make sure you test the water daily.

If anyone else has any comments, suggestions or insight to add, please post.

Roan