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View Full Version : Is inbreeding fish ok?



Fishman37
06-20-2006, 12:59 AM
Can I breed fish from the same "litter"/"fry batch"?

Web Gazelle
06-20-2006, 1:10 AM
Several birth deffects can happen when breeding from the same. I wouldn't suggest it.

khombre
06-20-2006, 2:05 AM
i second that, in-breeding can cause some health issues for the resulting fry

i have a swordtail pond where unfortunately some degree of in-breeding does occur, some of the resulting fry grow up with deformities and others seem to have a weaker immune system as they are more prone to infections...

have a nice day :p:

Dunluce2
06-20-2006, 6:30 AM
the only class of animals that has no worries when it comes to inbreeding are reptiles. Yes you may not have strong genes and the odd deformity and weak immune system but they will normally die and only the strong survive. They're not mutants, just different. Its called evolution. You might just breed a superfish that will wipe out all humankind. Or some freakish hideous novelty creature that someone will pay crp lds for. Where did the sicko goldfish with the bubbles below their eyes come from. Or the lionhead goldfish with the humungeous melon heads. Or a balloon molly. I saw one today at the LFS and it looked like it had swallowed a rather large marble. A ball with fins. And i nearly bought some. The world would be indeed boring if nothing ever changed, have a look at some origonal wild specimens of the fish we keep. Some you wouldnt use for bait. Yet their distant cousins are sought after for their colours. Seen a wild guppy? not that colourful. cause they get eaten if their seen. so who did we keep and breed. the freaky mutants

Chickieepooh2u
06-20-2006, 8:30 AM
I've heard that guppies don't seem to have a problem if you inbreed them, something about no recessive gene. I haven't tried to inbreed so I don't know first hand.

TheMightyQueenPixie
06-20-2006, 9:20 AM
I do it all the time... You are good for about 4-6 generations before you have to outcross to a different line...

fishbreeder017
06-20-2006, 9:58 AM
Sometimes people inbreed the father to the daughter on purpose to get a certain gene. I haven't inbed my guppies yet but I might. Only inbreed if you've been breeding for a long time and know a thing or two about genetics. :hang:

Z Man
06-20-2006, 2:28 PM
Yes, inbreeding is done all the time in the hobby to acquire particular traits. Often father to daughter and mother to son.

Toirtis
06-20-2006, 11:17 PM
the only class of animals that has no worries when it comes to inbreeding are reptiles.

Not true...all animals suffer from inbreeding...reptiles included....they just tend to be more slow to show the effects of inbreeding.

Toirtis
06-20-2006, 11:18 PM
Yes, inbreeding is done all the time in the hobby to acquire particular traits. Often father to daughter and mother to son.

It is done all the time, but it is quite detrimental to the fish....serious breeders avoid it.

nerdyguy83
06-20-2006, 11:32 PM
Regardless of your stance on it, inbreeding for one generation will probably not have any dangerous effects. As a species, we consider inbreeding to be taboo, but that is a cultural trait that was passed down from our hunter-gatherer roots when mating/marrying outside the small group was essential so you had ties in other groups when food ran short where you were. This cultural taboo is what makes us resistant to the idea of it happening in the animal kingdom, especially in these types of situations because we tend to anthropomorphize our pets. The truth is that it does happen in the wild when necessary without mutant critters running rampant. Even with humans, if you had a kid with your brother or sister right now nothing would come of it because you (probably) have no long history of inbreeding in your family. Genetic mutations becomes more likely with inbreeding over a span of several generations. Inbreeding does not cause genetic mutation, it simply increases the probability that it will happen.

twig
06-21-2006, 12:05 AM
Sometimes people inbreed the father to the daughter on purpose to get a certain gene.

That's kinky in a wrong way.

pugwash
06-21-2006, 8:51 AM
Not true...all animals suffer from inbreeding...reptiles included....they just tend to be more slow to show the effects of inbreeding.

Agreed, cheetah's have had numerous genetic bottlenecks thoughout their species existance which has lead to inbreeding to survive the population crashes, and they're still here (but facing habitat destruction now).

I'm not a fan of inbreeding due to the physiological losses incurred as a result, but to the amateur hobbiest it's not vital unless it occurs over several generations or they wish to sell the offspring to fish shops.

daveedka
06-21-2006, 9:13 AM
My snails and guppies inbreed constantly. As for the guppies I try very hard to maintain one male, and get rid of the rest. About every six months I swap out males to try to refresh the gene pool. The inbreeding generations still do fine . Guppy inbreeding is very common both with breeders in the hobby and in the wild. Some folks blame the breeders for the relatively weak strains of guppies we have these days, I haven't had much trouble.
My snails and shrimp seem to show no sign of problems with inbreeding, and I know my snails are well past 20 generations. I started with only two snails, from whence thousands have been produced.

dave

NatakuTseng
06-21-2006, 9:30 AM
Inbreeding/linebreeding is perfectly acceptable with fish. Infact many of the aquarium fish we have today are the result of this practice. When you want a particular trait to reappear in the next generation or one or two down the road, spawning with siblings/parents does that.

For example. I spawn one fish normal colors with an albino fish..

The resulting fry will all appear to have normal colors, but have a recessive albino gene...so you would spawn siblings from this spawn, or with the albino parent....

then in the next generation you would attain Albino fry.

I could make a huge list for you of fish that have been inbred for colors, but here's a short one..

Angelfish, discus, guppies, bettas, dwarf gourami, platies, swordtails, goldfish, longfin/albino cories, three spot gourami (blues, yellows, reds), Koi.... and the list can just keep going.

Generally with fish, you can get 3-4 generations of line breeder before you run into genetic issues, so that means in the 3rd or 4th generation you would want to introduce new genetic material from another line.

Is it wrong...no

Web Gazelle
06-21-2006, 11:08 PM
Signs of inbreeding may not show in the first generation but as you inbreed more and more generations you will see some of the signs start to appear. I have never tried guppies, but my Mollies and Platies showed signs when I bought the mated pair from the same store. Things like stunted growth, poor immune systems and deformations of the body are all signs of inbreeding and I saw those in the fry.