Neon Gobie and Cleaner shrimp

[kreblak]

How effective a cleaner is the Neon Gobie and the Cleaner Shrimp when it comes to parasitic organisims? I am fighting an outbreak of Black Ich (Black Spot Disease), and would very much prefer to use biological cleaners due to the abundance of invertabrates in my tank. Are there any species of fish that the Gobie would fight with? Also, are there any types of fish that might eat the shrimp? I would very much like to replace my Yellow Tang as soon as possible, but with my tank brimming with parasites at the moment, I need something to balance the equation.

BTW, if you ever want to see something truely horrible, turn off the filter and skimmer for about an hour when you have a case of Black Ich. Under the proper lighting, you can actually see the parasitic worms swimming in the tank with the naked eye. Yuk.

PD

[OrionGirl]

In your case, a UV filter might be a better choice. Many shrimp will clean, but it can take a while for this behavior to develop (ie, the critter has to settle into your tank before setting up station). See if you can borrow one from a friend.

Quarantining new arrivals will help prevent future infestations. Check water parameters as well to make sure this isn't contributing to the stress levels and problems for the tang.

We dropped the salinity in out tank down to about 1.020 for 3-4 days last time we had black spot. The corals sulked a bit, but everything came trhough okay. Make sure to reduce salinity slowly--we replaced a gallon an hour until it dropped to that low level, and make sure all other parameters stay constant.

[kreblak]

Water levels all test just fine. My home testing kits showed everything was fine, so I took a water sample over to my local fish store to double check, and they confirmed my tests. The only thing that may be a bit off is the salinity. As of my last reading (yesterday) it was at 1.023, just above what I have read is the "ideal" salinity of 1.022. The Yellow Tang lasted 3 weeks against this Black Spot, and he looked healthy the entire time, save for the black cysts. It was only the day before he died that his color faded. He had a ravenous appetite the entire time, consuming frozen food as well as 3 in by 3 in sheets of seaweed within an hour of their being placed in the tank. He also actively grazed on the brown algae in the tank. If something were amiss with the water quality, wouldn't the Tang have succumbed much quicker to the parasite, and had more symptoms (like not eating)?

Is there something I could be missing?

[OrionGirl]

The parasite must be introduced before the fish can be infected, no matter what level of stress (ie, water conditions, size of tank, and tankmates can all cause stress problems for tangs). Tangs will usually display worse symptoms than other fish, though many fish can carry the parasite.

However, the parasite is doing damage internally well before the dots appear. The appearance of the dots indicates the parasite migrated, and inflicted serious internal damage in the process. Sometimes the fish can tolerate this, sometimes not. IME, a lot depends on the other stress factors and the quality of diet. What size is your tank?

[kreblak]

I have a 46 gallon tank. The previous inhabitants of the tank were nine damsels. One of them proved to be a MEAN s.o.b. and actively tried to kill the other eight fish within six weeks... unfortunately he succeeded. For the remaining four weeks he remained the sole inhabitant of the tank while it finished cycling. After ten weeks, my nitrate problems had finally cleared up, so I sold the remaining damsel back to my LFS and purchased four turbo snails and four red legged hermit crabs to clear up my brown algae issues, and a Yellow Tang. The crabs and snails are doing just fine to this day, hence my reluctance to use "Clout" or any of the numerous other anti-helminetic parasite medications that may harm my invertibrates.

[OrionGirl]

Uhhh...You know that when you cycle with fish, the bio-load is then perfect--for exactly those fish, no more? With just one damsel, you didn't have a very strong cycle, and changing the stocking level resulted in a brief spike, which is now no longer present, but likely contributed to the problem with the tang to begin with.

However, I can't advice you get another--that tank doesn't have the large swimming space tangs need to stay healthy. Anything less than a 6 foot tank is inadequate for long term health, IMO and IME.

However, if you are patient, just let the tank run for 3-4 weeks with no fish. Lacking a suitable host, the parasite will die off and your tank will be clean. Using a UV will hasten the process. I'd just look for a different fish than a tang--there are many fish that will be happy in that size tank, some with great colors.

[kreblak]

What will happen to the bio-filter during the three to four weeks I am without fish? If the cycle wasn't very strong after cycling with one fish, will I experience a dramatic surge in ammonia and nitartes as a result of adding fish once the worms have died?

Just out of sheer curiosity, what would happen if I introduced a neon goby right now? Would it eat the worms, or would they infest the goby? Also, have you ever experienced a damsel as aggressive as the one I had?

[OrionGirl]

The bio filter will go into decline. If you introduce fish slowly, one at a time, change water as needed (testing daily), use some macro algaes, and feed sparingly, you can stock the tank without serious spikes. If you add several fish, overfeed, ect, yes, you will have a spike. The other option is to return the inverts and fishless cycle the tank--a couple cocktail shrimp from the deli will work fine. Since you already have the inverts, you will have to remove them for fishless, or go slow with fish stocking.

Yep, damsels are little buggers. We had a 3 stripe who was such a jerk, we threw him in with an octopus, hoping she would turn him into a snack. Never happened--we eventually traded him for a large lion fish. Clowns (members of the same family) can be just as bad--we had a pair of perculas that were awful. They harrassed several fish before we had enough and traded them in to the LFS for credit. Beautiful fish, but very territorial.

I don't know if the gobie would consume the worms or not. Many cleaner critters (shrimps and such) will only eat the parasites in a specific stage of life--ie, the cysts, as opposed to the free swimming version. I don't think I'd risk it, personally.