help with algae!!! (long one with Pict's)

[hmt321]

OK i did a fish less cycle on a 40 gal tank in Feb
at the time I had:

gravel substrate
this plant package:http://www.azgardens.com/habitats_easy.php
and 1 watt per gallon

4 months later some of the plants are dead, most are not doing very well

so i buy the following:

two 55 watt fixtures with 6500 lights
one 15 lb bag of fluorite
and 16 more Vals (plants)

I drain the tank (the fish camp out in a 30 gal rubbermade)
install the lights
remove the gravel
spread the fluorite out in the 40 gal (i wash it ST)
put my old gravel back on top of the fluorite
plant the tank

OK that was about 2 weeks ago

I have a bad problem with algae

Pict's
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c162/hmt321/IMG_0365.jpg

and this
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c162/hmt321/IMG_0366.jpg

last one

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c162/hmt321/IMG_0369.jpg


what do i do???

this is what i think i should do:

-do a black out, 5 day black out to kill algae
-then clean the tank out with a power head as a sprayer (to get the dead algae) and run my diatom filter on it

then i probably need to plant every square inch of the tank

then i need to figure out some sort of dosing schedule
(I bought some of this:http://www.kentmarine.com/freshwater/fwp.html )
( and this:http://www.kentmarine.com/freshwater/prp.html )

is this what i need to grow plants?????

I went to my lfs to get some advise but I do not trust them.

they told me to stop weekly 25% water change and go to 1 per month or every 6 weeks, and they wanted to sell me some algae killer, but they did not know if it would hurt the plants

questions:
is my black out long enough???
is this fertilizer what I need? if so how much should i dose??
what else should i do?

here is my test as of 7:30 pm June 30th

Ph 7.2
ammonia 0.0
nitrite 0.0
nitrate under 10 - it almost always tests like this

GH and KH i think they are under 1 ( it never changed color, no mater how many drops i put in)

any help would be appreciated

[fishcatch22]

well, I think a blackout would kill the algae, but it would also kill your plants, too. I think at this point it would be okay to take a gamble with the algicide.

[Aquabum]

You don't mention Co2. Are you injecting it?

I sure hope so. I believe that that is your problem. @ 2.75 wpg, your plants need co2 in order to use up the nutrients.


Lissette

[Hurley]

If you are not planning on doing CO2 then you might want to consider dropping your lighting down to a lower wattage. If you are many local fish stores carry replacement lights or you can order some online. Also, I don't know about those fertilizers but I would suggest ordering some from Greg Watson..it will be much cheaper in the long run. If you do buy from Greg I would suggest dosing using the EI (Estimated Index) method. Check out this link to read more about it... http://www.barrreport.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2062

Do you have any algae eating fish?

[gagaliya]

or you could just buy a dozen nerite snails from the same place. it will clean up your tank in a week and keep it spotless and algae free going forward.

http://www.azgardens.com/aquarium_snails.php

I really dont understand why everyone goes through those complex rituals of blackouts, nutrient balance, harmful chemicals etc.. when the most efficient, natural, and simple solution is right in front of you.



OK i did a fish less cycle on a 40 gal tank in Feb
at the time I had:

gravel substrate
this plant package:http://www.azgardens.com/habitats_easy.php
and 1 watt per gallon

4 months later some of the plants are dead, most are not doing very well

so i buy the following:

two 55 watt fixtures with 6500 lights
one 15 lb bag of fluorite
and 16 more Vals (plants)

I drain the tank (the fish camp out in a 30 gal rubbermade)
install the lights
remove the gravel
spread the fluorite out in the 40 gal (i wash it ST)
put my old gravel back on top of the fluorite
plant the tank

OK that was about 2 weeks ago

I have a bad problem with algae

Pict's
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c162/hmt321/IMG_0365.jpg

and this
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c162/hmt321/IMG_0366.jpg

last one

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c162/hmt321/IMG_0369.jpg


what do i do???

this is what i think i should do:

-do a black out, 5 day black out to kill algae
-then clean the tank out with a power head as a sprayer (to get the dead algae) and run my diatom filter on it

then i probably need to plant every square inch of the tank

then i need to figure out some sort of dosing schedule
(I bought some of this:http://www.kentmarine.com/freshwater/fwp.html )
( and this:http://www.kentmarine.com/freshwater/prp.html )

is this what i need to grow plants?????

I went to my lfs to get some advise but I do not trust them.

they told me to stop weekly 25% water change and go to 1 per month or every 6 weeks, and they wanted to sell me some algae killer, but they did not know if it would hurt the plants

questions:
is my black out long enough???
is this fertilizer what I need? if so how much should i dose??
what else should i do?

here is my test as of 7:30 pm June 30th

Ph 7.2
ammonia 0.0
nitrite 0.0
nitrate under 10 - it almost always tests like this

GH and KH i think they are under 1 ( it never changed color, no mater how many drops i put in)

any help would be appreciated

[djlen]

You have the same tank that I do. One of mine is a 40 with 2X55 watt CF over it.
You don't mention whether you are injecting CO2 or dosing Excel. Your tank will need one of them (a carbon source) to push the plants to grow, which will allow them to compete with the algae for nutrients.
Unfortunately your only option at this time is Excel because you have too little kH buffering your water to inject CO2.
Here is what I would suggest. Go here: http://www.gregwatson.com/DryAquaticFertilizers.asp
You will need all of the following: KNO3 (for Potassium & Nitrogen); KH2PO4 (for Phosphates) - or a bottle of Fleets Enema from your local pharmacy; K2SO4 (potassium), but you only need this if you have a heavy fish load.
CSM + B Plantex Trace Minerals.
Since you apparently have soft water I'd pick up some Calcium Sulfate.
If you pick up the Fleets at the pharmacy you can also pick up a milk carton of Epsom Salts to supply your water table with Mg (magnesium) or you can buy Magnesium Sulfate from Greg.
The reason you need these elements is because you have a relatively good amount of light over that tank and the plants are not growing fast enough to compete with the algae at this time. Grow the plants - get rid of the algae, but first you must find the balance between light, plant mass, and nutrients.
A blackout will not........I repeat, not kill your plants and will do wonders at getting rid of the algae, but it's useless until you have a carbon source and nutrients ready to start when you take the cover off the tank and let the light back into it.
Therefore you need to buy the nutrients and a bottle of Excel and have them ready. Then do a 3 day blackout before starting to feed and re-introducing your lighting.
I would also suggest buying some water sprite, Salvinia, or some other floating plants to shade the tank initially, until the plants can establish themselves and balance your tank.
None of the nutrients are expensive as you will see on Greg's site. A year's supply of Mg, and Fleets Enema can be bought at your pharmacy for less than $10.
When you went with the light, you pretty much sealed the deal as far as needing to balance it with the above.
Much of this probably sounds quite confusing, but it's easy to learn how to use all of the above. Don't be afraid to ask questions.

Len

[hmt321]

thanks for the advise

I do not have co2 injection

I will go with the Flourish Excel

ok I need a clarification on the dry fertz


will the fleets enema replace KNO3 (for Potassium & Nitrogen); KH2PO4 (for Phosphates)???

here is fish load

2 longear sunfish (they are north american natives, like a small oscar) (one will be relocated soon)
5 sailfin shiners (2" they get to 3")
1 madtom (a small NA catfish 2.5" now they get to about 3")
4 ottos
12 olive nerties (snails)

in short i need to aquire the following:

Florite excel
fleets enema or the (kno3,kh2po4)
CSM + B Plantex Trace Minerals
Calcium Sulfate
milk carton of Epsom Salts

I will get some floating plants help shade, (I am assumeing that I will be able to remove them later)

I will try this doesing schedule:

20-40 Gallon Aquariums
+/- ¼ tsp KN03 3x a week
+/- 1/16 tsp KH2P04 3x a week
+/- 1/16 tsp K2S04 3x a week
+/- 1/16 tsp (5ml) Trace Elements 3x a week
50% weekly water change

questions:
if i go with the fleets enema, how do i get the dosage? am i right in saying thet the fleets will replace (KNO3, KH2PO4, K2SO4)??
I should dose the Mg (or epsom salt) and Calcium Sulfate like trace ele?

I think im starting to get my head around this

gagaliya-- thanks for posting, i have tried the snails they realy do a great job of clearing stuff, but it grows back so fast that they cant keep up, I have had 12 of them in the tank for about 10 days or so.

thank so much for taking the time to help

[djlen]

thanks for the advise



will the fleets enema replace KNO3 (for Potassium & Nitrogen); KH2PO4 (for Phosphates)???

No, the fleets enema is a liquid to supplement PO4. It's all you really need for P.
KNO3 is the element that will supply your N-nitrogen and K-potassium so the fleets and KNO3 supply all of your macro nutrients. You have a relatively light fish load and IMO, don't need any extra K.

in short i need to aquire the following:

Florite excel
fleets enema or the (kno3,kh2po4)
If you get the fleets you don't need the kH2PO4
CSM + B Plantex Trace Minerals
Calcium Sulfate
milk carton of Epsom Salts
Yes, pick this up at the pharmacy with the fleets enema.

I will get some floating plants help shade, (I am assumeing that I will be able to remove them later)
Yes, as the plants fill in you can gradually phase out the floaters if you like.

I will try this doesing schedule:

20-40 Gallon Aquariums
+/- ¼ tsp KN03 3x a week
+/- 1/16 tsp KH2P04 3x a week
+/- 1/16 tsp K2S04 3x a week
+/- 1/16 tsp (5ml) Trace Elements 3x a week
50% weekly water change

questions:
if i go with the fleets enema, how do i get the dosage? am i right in saying thet the fleets will replace (KNO3, KH2PO4, K2SO4)??
I should dose the Mg (or epsom salt) and Calcium Sulfate like trace ele?

Here is a calculator to help you determine dosages for fleets and calcium:
http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/fertilator.php?
Save a shortcut to your desktop for easy access.

I dose 8 mls./traces daily, but I have a huge plant mass. If you can, take an over all picture of the tank and let's see what you've got in there.


thank so much for taking the time to help

Hope this clears things up a bit.

Len

[gagaliya]

hey html, are you sure they are nerite snails and not something else? ONLY this specie of snails are effective against larger algae problems.

[SIMSSEGA]

Do you think ciclids will eat those snails?

[hmt321]

thanks djlen

here is the pict of the whole tank
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c162/hmt321/IMG_0370.jpg

i will check out that calculater
thanks


the snails I have are Olive Nerites, I collected them myself out of the tensaw river delta, there are hundreds of thousands of them, very easy to collect. I cant get a close up pict to come out clear ill monkey with my camera and post it later


the sunfish that i have is small right now, (2") but perhaps when it gets bigger it may try and eat one, will have 2 wait and see.

the snails will completely clean off a large plant leaf or a piece of drift wood and then 2 days later the algea is back, they just cant keep up.

[rrkss]

The algae you are showing is hair algae. It is caused by a buildup of organic nitrogen wastes (like urea). I would increase plant density with lots of fast growing stem plants (ludwigia, cabomba, elodea) and add a school of 6-7 Rosy Barbs and within a matter of a day or two this algae will be gone.

Make sure you maintain steady EI dosing and crank the CO2 up and keep it stable. If you have access to some mulm (The solid part that comes out when you syphon a mature tank) I would throw some into the filter and your substrate to get some bacteria into the tank responsible for removing organic nitrogen waste.

[hmt321]

ok new set of questions lol

I am playing around with the fert calculater

what should my target ppms be?

also what for my magnesium, what is epsom salt (is this it? MgSO4 + 7H2O )

ok so i start to play with the calculater using this doseing schedule
20-40 Gallon Aquariums
+/- ¼ tsp KN03 3x a week
+/- 1/16 tsp KH2P04 3x a week
+/- 1/16 tsp K2S04 3x a week
+/- 1/16 tsp (5ml) Trace Elements 3x a week
50% weekly water change

I know that i will not be using KH2P04 or K2S04 (because of fleets enema)
right now im just trying to get a base to work off of

this is the result of that dose ppm

NO3 = 5.27
PO4 = 1.61
K = 5.17
Ca = .2
Mg = .2
Fe = .2

is this what i should shoot for?

now to get the same ammount of PO4 with the fleets I need 2 add about 3/8 of a tea spoon, but that lowers my K from 5.17 to 3.32 is this acceptable?

I guess what i realy need is a reccomdation as to what my PPM should be for these:
NO3 =
PO4 =
K =
Ca =
Mg =
Fe =

in the results box are those good numbers to use? if so then it seems that the doseing schedule is way off
to get closer to those numbers the doseing would look like this

+/- 1/2 tsp KN03 3x a week
+/- 3/8 tsp KH2P04 3x a week
ca would be 3 3/4 tea spoon 3 times a week
Mg would be 3/4 teaspoon 3 times a week
iron would stay the same

and a big water change to cap the week off

I will look for a good ppm table to go off of

thanks again

[hmt321]

The algae you are showing is hair algae. It is caused by a buildup of organic nitrogen wastes (like urea). I would increase plant density with lots of fast growing stem plants (ludwigia, cabomba, elodea) and add a school of 6-7 Rosy Barbs and within a matter of a day or two this algae will be gone.

Make sure you maintain steady EI dosing and crank the CO2 up and keep it stable. If you have access to some mulm (The solid part that comes out when you syphon a mature tank) I would throw some into the filter and your substrate to get some bacteria into the tank responsible for removing organic nitrogen waste.

my tank is cycled, it has been since i did the fishless in feb, my tests results are as follows

Ph 7.2
ammonia 0.0
nitrite 0.0
nitrate under 10

I will take the rosy barbs into consideration, I do not want to over crowd the tank and i think 8 more rosey barbs would do this.

[djlen]

If you look at the bottom of the fertilator, the numbers under each element are considered to be optimum values for each. Keeping that in mind, here is what I suggest for each as a starting point. You may need to tweak them from there:

"I guess what i realy need is a reccomdation as to what my PPM should be for these:"
NO3 = .75 tsp. yields 15.8-N & 9.96-K
PO4 = .50 milliliter yields approx. 2.21ppm/P - There are approx. 16 drops of Fleets Enema equaling 1 milliliter, so .50 = 8 drops which would be your starting dosage.
K = 0 - No K+ needed at this time.
Ca = 3 tsp. yields 9.52ppm/Ca
Mg = 2 tsp. yields 6.31ppm/Mg
I am more comfortable dosing light on Ca and heavy on Mg because of less than satisfactory results with CaCl. You will however be using Calcium Sulfate which is what I'm now using as well and should get nice results dosing the amounts recommended above, of Ca and Mg.

"what is epsom salt (is this it? MgSO4 + 7H2O )" - yes. Very inexpensive and a good source for Mg. Get it and the Fleets at your pharmacy.


Fe = 0 - Different folks will tell you different things about this element. I will tell you that dosing extra Fe is not necessary and can cause algae issues if over-used. I dose my traces daily to keep the Fe in the trace mix available to the plants and find that this works well for me. Therefore I suggest no extra Fe at this time.

All dosing is done in conjunction with a weekly 50% water change followed by dosing the above amounts of these elements. This water change is crucial for re-setting the tank each week.

In addition I would start dosing your Plantex daily, starting the day after water change day, at the rate of 5mls/day. 30 mils/week is a good starting point and should be increased as the plant mass develops and expands.

You mix the Plantex in a clean, well sealed jar a the rate of 2tbsps. in 500mls. of hot water and stir the heck out of it until you see no residue in the container. Then store the main container in the refrigerator taking out only enough for dosing a few days at a time in your tank. Or you can dose directly from the main container. Plantex will develop a gunky residue if too much is left at room temp. for too long. Mixing more than 500mls. is unnecessary for dosing one tank. It will last a long time.

I would hold off on doing any blackouts until you have all of the elements including the Excel (I think that's what you said you'd be using) ready to go.

Len

[hmt321]

thanks a ton,

I ordered everything i need last night and i will do my black out once i get everything here.

thanks you so much

[rrkss]

Fe = 0 - Different folks will tell you different things about this element. I will tell you that dosing extra Fe is not necessary and can cause algae issues if over-used. I dose my traces daily to keep the Fe in the trace mix available to the plants and find that this works well for me. Therefore I suggest no extra Fe at this time.


I agree that you should not supplement extra Fe right away. Watch your fast growers. If the growth tips start to yellow then add some more Fe. I need to add 3 mL of Seachem Iron daily since my tanks use a lot of Fe (Mostly because most of the plant mass is fast growing stem plants). I don't agree with the Iron causing algae though since that has not proven true in my situation and my tests.

The cause of hair algae is from organic Nitrogen wastes. Organic Nitrogen wastes are different from Ammonia and the stuff from the nitrogen cycle. These molecules are much more complex and require more work to break them down. An easy way to reduce them is to use Seachem's Purigen or add mulm from a tank that has been up for more than a year.

Rosy Barbs are some of the best algae eaters I have. They will eat anything furry from Spyrogira to hair algae. They will even nip at BBA once you get the CO2 high enough to weaken it. Very active but greedy fish. They are some of my favorite fish.

[rrkss]

thanks a ton,

I ordered everything i need last night and i will do my black out once i get everything here.

thanks you so much

While you wait, quarantine the Rosy Barbs so that they can go in once you have all your stuff ready. I bet you that the hair algae won't return with these greedy buggers in there. They are also very friendly and active fish if you keep them in a school of at least 7 fish.

[hmt321]

ok my Ph and GH/KH results were wrong.

about 6 months ago I bought a hagan master test kit and I misplaced it, i went rooting through my closet and found it.

ok my ph is 7.8 (way off from the 7.2 from doc fishwell)

I checked the other stuff and everything was the same except gh/kh

GH = 3 drops = 60 ppm (# of drops * 20)

KH = 3 drops = 30 ppm (# of drops * 10)

here are some other tests i ran

PO4 = 0.0-0.25

Ca = 2 drops = 60 ppm (#drops * 20)

Fe (free) = 0 - .01

Fe (cleated = .25

Question:
- how does this effect the products I sould use (i think C02 inject is doable now but I may just use the flourish excel)


thanks

[djlen]

ok my Ph and GH/KH results were wrong.

about 6 months ago I bought a hagan master test kit and I misplaced it, i went rooting through my closet and found it.

ok my ph is 7.8 (way off from the 7.2 from doc fishwell)

I checked the other stuff and everything was the same except gh/kh

GH = 3 drops = 60 ppm (# of drops * 20)

KH = 3 drops = 30 ppm (# of drops * 10)

here are some other tests i ran

PO4 = 0.0-0.25

Ca = 2 drops = 60 ppm (#drops * 20)

Fe (free) = 0 - .01

Fe (cleated = .25

Question:
- how does this effect the products I sould use (i think C02 inject is doable now but I may just use the flourish excel)


thanks

Hobbiest level test kits are notoriously inaccurate and vary so much that I put little credence in the results. I use AP for most tests and only to check
to see if a parameter has gone up or down after altering something. For instance I use the pH test if I've adjusted CO2 injection to get a rough idea about how much I've changed the CO2/ppm.
Bottom line is this - don't worry too much about the results of your test kits. Go with what we've discussed.
I would watch your kH though if you decide, in the future to inject CO2. Test it yourself and then have a sample tested at a reliable LFS. If it's hovering in the 3.0°kH area it needs to be raised for safety.

Len

[rrkss]

a kH of 1.0 or higher is safe for CO2 injection. Here is a quote from Tom Barr who is probably one of the biggest experts when it comes to planted tanks.


Read up on KH.

You do not need it to be high, anything from 1-2 degrees is fine, adding more serves no purpose.

Raising the pH is bad for fish if you add lots of Baking soda all at once.
Lowering it or raising it with CO2 is not.

Ask yourself why this might be.........

If you place a fish in a high salt tank and then back to low salt tank, is that bad?

Yes.

Baking soda is a carbonate salt.

This shocks the fish.

CO2 does not.
We do weekly large 50-75% water changes with low pH CO2 enriched water with plain tap that's 1 full pH unit above. Never any issues nor anyone for the last 20 years.............due to pH changes and CO2.

Baking soda? Folks have killed their fish adding 4-6 degrees all at once.

If you want more CO2, the obnly way to do that is well.............add more CO2.

Lowering, raising KH, monkeying with strong acids, and other hairbrained ideas to get that pH/KH combo you seek are futile and waste time, $, and brain cells.

Plants want CO2, so if you want better conditions for the plants, only add CO2.

GH and the rest are nutrients(as is CO2).

Regards,
Tom Barr

[djlen]

'You do not need it to be high, anything from 1-2 degrees is fine, adding more serves no purpose.'

Tom and I are old friends. I gotta come down on the other side of the coin on this one however. I've heard too many horror stories around people who's pH crashed from lack of buffer in their water. You people will do what you like. I will always recommend pushing kH to a minimum of 3.0°kH. It's easy to accomplish (without baking soda) and hold, and safer for the fish, IMO.

Len

[hmt321]

ok here is my projected dosing schedule

KNO3 = .75 teaspn (once a week - or WC)
Fleets = 8 drops (once a week - or WC)
Calcium sulfate = 3 teaspn (once a week - or WC)
MG = 2 teaspn (once a week- or WC)
Plantex = 5ml (per day or 30 ml per week - WC)

I assume that you disolve the dry powders in water before you dump them in?

once again thank you so much

[rrkss]

Break your KNO3 and Fleet dosing to every second day. Same with Plantex. Dose Plantex and your macros on opposite days. Calcium and Magnesium get dosed after a waterchange once per week. Good luck!

[hmt321]

ok so

KNO3 = 3/8 teaspn (twice a week - or 3/4 teasp per WC)
Fleets = 4 drops (twice a week - or 8 drops per WC)
Calcium sulfate = 3 teaspn (once a week - or WC)
MG = 2 teaspn (once a week- or WC)
Plantex = 15ml (twice a week or 30 ml per week - WC)

[djlen]

Here is an example:
If you do your W/C on Sat., add back your macros THAT DAY.
The following day start your traces and dose them EVERY DAY skipping zero days. Fe has a shelf life of 1 day in the water table. Keep it available by dosing daily.
The Wed. after W/C test your N and P and dose half of W/C dose if necessary.
This is a very simple plan and easy to follow. The only day after day constant is the traces; no change in dose size except if you want to dose at mid-week. It keeps things consistent.
If, over time you find a steady need for P+ or N+ on Wed. just dose them at 1/2 dosage automatically on Wed. No need to test if you find, over time that the tank needs them, and you're going to be doing your W/C the following Sat. to remove any overages.

Len

[hmt321]

OK my black out was done last night,

I did a 75% water change and ran my DE filter to get the water clear, tank looks great,

what i dosed

kno3 = 3/8 teaspoon
fleets = 4 drops
cal sulfate = 3 tsp
MG = 2 tsp
excel = 20 ml (as per instructions)

I also mixed up 250 ml of the plantex (1 table spoon to 250 ml)

OK I basically got some tank water really hot in the microwave, and dumped all the above in and I had some clumping, (my fish are currently grabbing the small white pieces and spitting them out)

next time i will dissolve the powders into separate containers

on Monday i will re-dose the kno3
and starting tomorrow i will dose ml per day of the plantex

question,

some of the new ludwig's are growing out of the water, should I trim them below the water line or let them emerge?

thanks tons

[djlen]

'OK I basically got some tank water really hot in the microwave, and dumped all the above in and I had some clumping, (my fish are currently grabbing the small white pieces and spitting them out).'

All of the above What!!!!???? You don't mix up the macros with the micros.
kno3 = 3/8 teaspoon
fleets = 4 drops
cal sulfate = 3 tsp
MG = 2 tsp
This is dosed after water change....once a week.

'I also mixed up 250 ml of the plantex (1 table spoon to 250 ml)'
This is mixed an stored in the fridge. You dose 5 or 6mls. a day skipping WC day.

Len

[grch36]

that stuff looks a lot like a cyano outbreak i had. hey hmt321, does it seem like your algae eaters aren't touching the stuff? if they aren't it may be a case of bacteria and not algae, you should start injecting co2, with a 40 gallon tank you'll get by with DIY as long as your get a good way to diffuse the co2. You can make a DIY diffuser to run aside your filter or a ceramic diffuser (http://www.aquabotanic.com/abstore/contents/en-us/d3.html) (scroll to the bottom of the page) Anywho, let me know on the previous question, like I said it looks like cyano that i had a problem with, it's fairly easy to destroy without algicide... and a five day black out WON'T kill your plants

I also agree with djlen, keep your KH at a minimum of 3deg, else you risk crashing the pH

[attack11]

cyanobacteria would slime the plants (or anything) it eventually settles on; that looks like thread algae. speaking of cyano, that stuff is kinda interesting to watch as it moves around in water.

[ops959]

I'm a novice too but my 2 inputs:

1) choose a plant growing substrate such as Eco-complete or Flourite

(the next time - or replace the gravel - although the plants will grow either way, this will provide more nutrients for a fully planted tank (and help your plants grow faster to outcompete the algae)

2) do aggressive 50% water changes with RO/DI H2O

(this water contains nearly no algae growing trace elements - you can now use the suppliments to add the nutrients that the plants need to grow and regulate the amounts contained within the aquarium water)

3) more aggressively clean your tank weekly

4) yes, the surface plants will cut your algae (like mine) by I'll venture 70%

*disclaimer - yes, I'm still struggling but have learned from these forums a great deal - going to kick up the CO2 and do more water changes

[hmt321]

I'm a novice too but my 2 inputs:

1) choose a plant growing substrate such as Eco-complete or Flourite

(the next time - or replace the gravel - although the plants will grow either way, this will provide more nutrients for a fully planted tank (and help your plants grow faster to outcompete the algae)

2) do aggressive 50% water changes with RO/DI H2O

(this water contains nearly no algae growing trace elements - you can now use the suppliments to add the nutrients that the plants need to grow and regulate the amounts contained within the aquarium water)

3) more aggressively clean your tank weekly
4) yes, the surface plants will cut your algae (like mine) by I'll venture 70%

*disclaimer - yes, I'm still struggling but have learned from these forums a great deal - going to kick up the CO2 and do more water changes

I have about 1.5" of florite under roughly 1" of gravel

my water changes and gravel washes are fairly aggressive, i try and vac the whole bottom (there is never any fish food left over, just poo) I change 30% or so at a time (i will be doing 50% to keep from having nutrient build up) I usually gravel vac the tank and use the inc water to kick up any thing else into the water column, then i run my DE filter for about 3-4 hours, the substrate is very clean looking and the water gets very clear.

I have some surface plants now

my Otto's and snails, seem to be getting ahead of the algae, they were eating it before very well (they were always grazing) but the stuff grew so fast that they could not keep up.

some of the plants already seem to have new growth, and I would say that they all have "perked" up a tad, the algae growth is not so bad, I think i will get more duckweed and water lettuce (i can get them 4 free) i can always pull it out later.

thanks again