Fish die for no reason?

[bobandfiona]

My dwarf gourami started becoming very lethargic and floating at the top. I quarantined him in hospital tank with 50% water from existing tank. (I keep temp and water parameters the same as community tank for easy acclimation). Color was great, no spots, no apparent disease or parasites, and everyone else in community tank is fine.

He died last night...could it just be old age?

I've lost a few other fish out of this same tank the same way (no apparent problems) over the past year.

[dorkfish]

We need more info:

all your maintenence routines?

water params, amonia, nitrite, nitrate and PH, as well as the PH of your tap water?

What were the other fish that died like his?

[Web Gazelle]

Could be internal bacterial infection. But we do need those tank specs.

[TheZoo]

If you put him in an uncycled tank, no media of anykind form the original tank, that may hav done it. Especially since he was already stressed from whatever the original problem was. Adding water from the original tank wont do much, you need gravel or maybe some filter media.
Seems to be a LOT of D. Gourami problems....anyone know of any research on D gouramis diseases? Or studies on their problems from being inbred?

[bobandfiona]

Sorry it took so long for reply - was out of the house.

This is the same tank I've always posted here about. I do weekly water changes and gravel vacs, water is the same that it has been for the past year - 0-.25 ammonia (depends on the day I test...but even my tap has .10 ammonia); 0 nitrites, 0 nitrates (sometimes it goes up to an orange color, but the water change puts it right back down); ph is 7.2-7.5 here in Dallas...tank stays the same as the water I put in.

I use Amquel to detox tap water for changes and because its been so hot here, the tap water is actually the same 80 degrees as my tank. (can't be healthy for humans!)
Like I said, all the others are fine. This particular fish has been in my tank for 6 months or so and been the alpha fish (see others below). I just added a pearl gourami that is full grown (same size as my dwarf was approx 1.5") three weeks ago. The pearl hid for 2 weeks and recently started swimming and being part of the community. I have never seen the two of them fight, but it did cross my mind that happened since now the pearl is the alpha fish and rules the tank. I did not see any fins nipped on the dwarf that died or any spots or scars. He did have a small curl to his back end like if we were to hunch over while sitting down, only side ways for a fish.

The other fish that died like this was my last gourami addition. I added a flame and the dwarf that just died the same day. The flame did the same thing only more severe (like hers was a swim bladder type illness laying on the bottom of the tank) a month after I got them.

Just a sad loss, and I want to be sure I don't lose anymore!

I also lost a black phantom tetra much the same way (floated on the top of the tank for a few days then died with no apparent disease) 9 months ago. :help:

thanks

[bobandfiona]

oh - my hospital tank is fully cycled - it is the one with a betta, snail, and 2 shrimp in it. It's parameters always match my community tank almost exactly. (tends to get alittle ammonia here and there) fully up and running for 8 months. and when I hospital a fish, I put them in a separator so they are by themselves and my betta can't get to them.

[denali1234]

I have had the same luck with gouramis lately. My own personal opinion is that they are harbouring a bacterial infection, which eventually kills them. I Have not been able to keep one for more than 4 months, while the rest of my healthy, established, well-taken care of tanks thrive. They seem to get lethargic after a while, hang at the top of the tank, and just die. I have had no other problems with any of my fish, so I do not think it is neccesarily transferred between fish. I have read on this site that there is a problem with gouramis related to some sort of bacterial infection.

[rosita]

I recently lost 2 of 3 dwarf blue gouramis, to either bacterial or parasitical causes. Did meds for each, but no response. I talked with someone on another website who said he'd stopped buying the dwarfs because of breeding problems causing just such problems and deaths. They seem to be much more susceptible or prone to any kind of thing that comes along like this . . . one of mine swelled up tremendously without any pineconing, had normal behavior for 2 weeks or so, then got very lethargic and finally died.

Maybe looking into who's doing the breeding, and what their practices are? I know I won't add any more--and just pray that this last one lives out a normal life. :huh:

[bobandfiona]

sorry to hear about both of your losses...its a shame to hear that because they are such beautiful fish. I've used them as my main tank focal points. Now I don't know what to get that is as pretty - any ideas for a main fish?

[TheZoo]

and when I hospital a fish, I put them in a separator so they are by themselves and my betta can't get to them.

So you put a potentially sick fish in the same tank as your betta and co.?

[Web Gazelle]

My one guess for what it might be is Hexamita. I had a Dwarf Gourami go through some of those symptoms before it died. No other fish of mine have had problems like that.

[Star_Rider]

Hexamita aka HITH (hole in the head disease) caused by a flagellated protazoan in the digestive tract(it exists in healthy and not so healthy fish)..this lil guy will cause loss of appetite but is treatable with metro and water changes..every other day.

the best method is to deliver the meds via food.but a bath has proven effective .

it is a good idea to clean out the filter and a good vac of the gravel is recommended.

oddly I had an angle get this in a tank that get regular 20-30% water changes every week with a heavy vac..however..I use an ac 70 in this tank with an extra sponge..I was rinsing the sponge one one week then one the next..I will now make sure it get rinsed every time I clean.

bte, it gets the name HITH due to lesions that usually accompany this disease..they usually cause anerosion of the tissue around the face of the fish.

clean water usually helps and some use pimafix and melafix

[Chickieepooh2u]

Is that a common practice using an occupied tank for a hosp tank? Mine sits empty until I need it. Some diseases are water born and even if you put it in a little box, the tank itself can be effected, thus harming the other fish.

[Web Gazelle]

I found this stuff called General Cure. It contains metronidazole which is used to cure Hexamita. I used it in my tank right after the Gourami died and I have had no other fish show any symptoms of the disease. General cure can also cure fish of other parasitic diseases.

[bobandfiona]

With the hole in the head disease, wouldn't there have been some visible sign of illness? I mean, the three fish I have lost all looked perfect. Beautiful coloring, fins perfect, scales perfect.

As to my hospital tank, I have so few times that I've used it and my Betta is perfectly fine. I also separate with separate filtration (I have a double filter) that it works fine for the purpose intended. But, no, I would never put a visibly ill fish in there...the only other illnesses we've had have been swim bladder type issues, so I have never really had a communicable disease to worry about.

Also, this is a Newbie forum, so being rude does no one any good for the poster who said, "so, let me get this straight...you put a sick fish in with other fish." Better wording to help might have been, "its not normal to put..." "Here are some other ideas to keep a hospital tank running..."


So, back to the post...why is it a gourami problem lately, and why are there not visible signs of an illness for us to know what it is? Is there any other illness that would cause a curvature of the body, lack of swimming, and floating?

Thanks all for your helpful replies.

[TheZoo]

So you put a potentially sick fish in the same tank as your betta and co.?

I wasnt sure if I may have misunderstood your wording as to your q-tank...Sorry that I sounded rude! I honestly didnt think I was being an a**, just asking a question.... Anyway: A quarantine tank is used to seperate a potentially ill fish from the others in order to minimize contact in case of contageons, to minimize stress on the sick fish and to allow you to treat if necessary in a more contained tank. You should quarantine all new arrivals for a week or two. Many people keep a fish or two in their q tanks to keep them cycled, but move those fish to another tank so that the q s now empty. A divider will still allow for some water exchange, not good in case of contageous diseases or parasites, and having seperate filters wouldnt change that. Also, if you had to treat for something, youd be exposing the original fish to that unneccesarily.

As for the lack of swimming, floating, curved body, Id think abut swim bladder problems... if you catch it early, several good water changes may help.

[Web Gazelle]

If kept with lots of active tankmates, a Dwarf Gourami may tend to be shy and hide a lot. May stop eating and as he goes days without eating he will become inactive and just lay around till he dies. Dwarf Gouramis are also more susceptible to illness and will not tolerate poor water conditions.

[bobandfiona]

Thanks for the info and clarification, the Zoo. No hard feelings...your second explanation definitely helped!

Maybe I am losing these fish to swim bladder problems. What I've read on the other posts archived is the concensus that swim bladder is caused by diet and wateras you said earlier.

Ok, I'll admit I am not the best water changer...I try 30-50% changes with python gravel vac and amquel as the water comes back in weekly, but sometimes it goes 2-3 weeks if water parameters test ok.

I feed flake variety with shrimp, potatoe, cereal and algae. Also, I'll feed frozen brine shimp one feeding per week and tetramin granules that are thicker than flakes. I'll also drop an algae wafer in once a week for the shrimp, snails, cory cat, and baby pleco. I feed approx 1/2 teaspoon daily. Very little food hits the ground as the community comes right up when I come to the tank and gobble all the food from the surface.

What (besides changing water more it sounds like) could I do differently on feeding? Am I giving too much protein causing the swim bladder issue?

[TheZoo]

Only thing Id suggest is more frequent water changes...make it part of your routine, dont wait for water parameters to indicate a problem. I recently brought my pepperd cory back from a swim bladder issue with wc's. I did 2 on that first day then 1 a day for the next 2 days. Now hes back to normal! I did put in some melafix, panicked, but I think the water changes alone would have done it.

[bobandfiona]

Thanks, Zoo...your advice has been great. Hopefully I won't have any more issue,s but I will committ to weekly water changes and if there ever is a problem, I will do more rather than quarantine with less water changes. (who knew?!?!?! learn something new every day!)

From your signature it sounds like your household is alot like mine! We live in north Dallas...sweating our skin off! I have a 2 1/2 yr. old son, a husband that is very much like my fish...swimming his own way until I bring food! (ha,ha,ha!) a 6 yr. old Husky, a 10 week old Basett hound, (just put my 13 yr. old cat down...sad sad day...she's seen me through alot!) and 2 fish tanks. The Zoo is definitely the right description!

Thanks again, and take care!