Making a Cave for Fish [Archive]

quick061

12-04-2002, 4:18 AM

i've got some nice basalt that i'm going to put into my new tank in the form of a cave and some other stuff. it works great, either buy some from your LFS or just go collect them from anywhere outside. just make sure that they're clean and if they have trace chemicals that you soak them well before you put them in (basalt should be soaked at least a week to remove all of the acids).

ctaylor

12-04-2002, 4:23 AM

I have always used rocks I find around my apartment complex to make caves. I scrub them down then I boil them or if they are too large to boil I pour a couple pots of boiling water over them. If you want you can silicon them togeather to make your cave. I have never needed to though. Good luck.

Chris

gaurang

12-04-2002, 4:25 AM

can any one provide me some url which explains the entire procedure of making a cave from different things..........:D

Skippy

12-04-2002, 5:04 AM

I have done this in a couple of my tanks.

I use the disposable gladware type containers they sell now.

Turn one upside down, cut an opening in one side.
set this on the substrate (you can use the sandwhich ones for a cave about 2-3 inches tall for instance)
then place flat slate or available rocks around it (to disguise it's plastic nature) and pour substrate on top to cover it.

I will post pics of some of these when I get home if i'm not too tired and go straight to bed.

MoJo

12-04-2002, 5:10 AM

Jurapari Man made a very nice cave out of gravel and sewer pipe. Maybe he will post a photo.

kveeti

12-04-2002, 8:09 AM

I have a similar cave to what Mojo mentioned. ABS tube, with gravel siliconed on, then planted with java moss:
http://members.shaw.ca/kveeti/cave.jpg

Hmmm it's hard to see, I guess, it's the thing in the very back, you can see a bit of the black ABS on the bottom.

TJcanada

12-04-2002, 8:40 AM

The PVC pipe works great..and easily covered for asthetics...Hope Jurapari Man does post a pic! Anyways, I know a guy that uses the clay drip trays for clay pots, he take 2 and silicons them together, puts a hole in 1 or 2 sides - his plecs love it. It looks good, been meaning to do it myself, and can easily be hidden with rocks/gravel...

JamisonBWolsh

12-04-2002, 9:07 AM

If you use anytype of plastics make sure its food or water safe.
What do I mean? The hardware sells the black pipe and the white Pipe. Black is for sewege and what not and is not made for drinkable water. This mean it can leach toxins into the tank. Go for the white PVC pipes that says it can be for dinkable water. These pipes are really cheap. I spent 3 dollars for 5 feet cut into 1 foot increments (no charge for cutting). You can buy LACE rock (a very common rock for tanks) at the fish store, but you can buy ALOT cheaper at a local construction site that sells ROCKS or hardwared store. SLATE is also good for tanks. Those are the FLAT Rocks you can make natural caves.

BTW, if you have cichlids, then lace rocks work great by hardening and raising your ph slightly. A very natural looking Cave.

Pipes and plastics.=Not so natural looking

morleyz

12-04-2002, 9:08 AM

I've been considering making some stuff out of "aragocrete" from GARF

http://www.garf.org

I know they're plans are to use it for live rock...but what the heck, I think some modifications to the formula could make for some good freshwater caves, rocks, etc.

ROLLIN

12-04-2002, 9:12 AM

If I were going to make some caves for one of my tanks, I would buy some flat rocks from the lfs and silicone them together. I would not use rocks I found outside because they could have a big vain of iron or some other metal or something in it that isnt good for fish.

Jurupari Man

12-04-2002, 10:59 AM

Thanks, Mo. I actually got the idea after seeing these clay pipes in both Mo's and Jeff Rapps' tanks. It's terra cotta sewer (or chimney) pipe. Bought at a masonry store. I siliconed pieces of slate & gravel to the outside of it. Here it is:
http://www.kpdevlin.com/Cave_1.JPG

TJcanada

12-04-2002, 12:11 PM

very cool cave Jurupari Man! :D

JamisonBWolsh - :confused: guess all my Koi should be dead then........:p In all fairness, I guess I should've mentioned ABS as well...chalk it up to a "blonde moment".

JamisonBWolsh

12-04-2002, 1:14 PM

I NEVER said it cant be used. I SAID if you use it, toxins from the plastics and "anti-build up" chemicals were added. I researched this in the USENETS and 100 percent said that if you use the PVS pipe only use pipes made for Drinkable water...The black pipes are not made for that and can contain toxins..

latazyo

12-04-2002, 1:28 PM

GREAT DIY CAVES THAT LOOK AWESOME (http://www.duboisi.com/diy/BNdiytank/bndiytank.htm)

there ya go!

quick061

12-04-2002, 8:02 PM

i think its supposed to be http://www.duboisi.com/diy/BNdiygrotto/bndiygrotto.htm

O-man21

12-04-2002, 8:28 PM

that's the place I get my tunnel ideas

latazyo

12-04-2002, 10:28 PM

Originally posted by quick061
i think its supposed to be http://www.duboisi.com/diy/BNdiygrotto/bndiygrotto.htm

haha...oops....I thought I had the cave one saved...but no

JamisonBWolsh

12-04-2002, 10:32 PM

VERY NICE!! Thanks...

slipknottin

12-04-2002, 10:34 PM

ABS is perfectly safe in an aquarium. (the black piping)

ArkyLady

12-04-2002, 10:38 PM

Wonder where a person could buy quantities of rock such as lava rock that's aquarium safe? I'd guess maybe a garden center or stone yard of some kind, but nothing like that in my town. Anywhere online that sells this in quantity?

I've found quite a few places to buy ready made items made of lava rock and various rocks, but I'd like to get my hands on some just rocks so I could build something of my own.

JamisonBWolsh

12-04-2002, 10:41 PM

Not to disagree but the black is made for sewege. that means the pipe is coated with a special chemical or plastic additive to stop buildup fom the sewege. The black pipe is Not drinkable safe, which means that it is not safe for fish eithor. The white pipe is used for drinkable water, so it is safe for all fish. When your at the hardware store look on the inside of the pipe and you will see that there is something coated as it is MUCH more shinier then the outside. I would use only food safe or water safe plastics in MY tanks...

Many poeple have used it with no faults..yet..I am not going to risk it myself. I would love to, black being better then white,...but I dont need the extra worry that it could cause the death of my fish..

slipknottin

12-04-2002, 10:41 PM

www.fellerstone.com used to sell direct, not sure if they do anymore.

in any effort, call them, dont email them, they wont respond.

slipknottin

12-04-2002, 10:43 PM

Originally posted by JamisonBWolsh
Not to disagree but the black is made for sewege. that means the pipe is coated with a special chemical or plastic additive to stop buildup fom the sewege. The black pipe is Not drinkable safe, which means that it is not safe for fish eithor. The white pipe is used for drinkable water, so it is safe for all fish. When your at the hardware store look on the inside of the pipe and you will see that there is something coated as it is MUCH more shinier then the outside. I would use only food safe or water safe plastics in MY tanks...

Many poeple have used it with no faults..yet..I am not going to risk it myself. I would love to, black being better then white,...but I dont need the extra worry that it could cause the death of my fish..

black pipe (ABS) is potable. it is pretty inert, and is not coated with anything. It is comparable to PVC in everything but rated pressure, its not a good choice for a return from a sump with a decent sized pump or any other high pressure application.

JamisonBWolsh

12-04-2002, 10:43 PM

Did you try your local LFS? they sell it more expensive..but it is still cheaper then mailing it. Try www.bigalsonline.com

morleyz

12-04-2002, 10:48 PM

http://www.reefcentral.com/vbulletin/archive/3/2001/10/4/35413

A nice debate I found about PVC, ABS, etc.

slipknottin

12-04-2002, 10:50 PM

I think RC is down... temporarily anyways...

alot of things we have in our tanks are made of ABS.

bulkheads, overflow boxes, and id bet those penguin power filters are made of ABS too.

edit- its not potable huh? only the glues are?

isnt food grade higher up on the scale than water is?

morleyz

12-04-2002, 10:54 PM

Originally posted by slipknottin
I think RC is down... temporarily anyways...

alot of things we have in our tanks are made of ABS.

bulkheads, overflow boxes, and id bet those penguin power filters are made of ABS too.

edit- its not potable huh? only the glues are?

isnt food grade higher up on the scale than water is?

Well darn it...that link works...

slipknottin

12-04-2002, 10:55 PM

only once in awhile...

RC is annoying me lately, but i guess thats what happens when you consistently have 700+ users on at the same time...

here are two more threads i found on the same topic.

http://reefcentral.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=91686&highlight=ABS+pipe

http://reefcentral.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=73930&highlight=ABS+pipe

JamisonBWolsh

12-04-2002, 10:59 PM

PVS is 100 percent safe because its made for drinkable water and Most people use this for filtration methods (white)

The ABS (black) is used for sewege. many poeple in the usenet uses it and someone who breeds discuses says everything is fine so far ( a few years). I cannot find anything saying its 100 percent safe for fish. It is for sewege. Im not going to risk it. You can if you want

slipknottin

12-04-2002, 11:02 PM

its used for sewage because it cant do pressure applications.

PVC is much stronger at withstanding pressure... and when the citys water lines are running at 70psi+ you need something that can handle that.

Many large public aquariums use ABS for their plumbing. Many reef keepers do also... and if there not having problems keeping some of the most sensitive creatures on earth, i doubt anybody keeping FW fish will either.

oh- and just about every LFS in the US is using ABS for the bulkheads they use in their tanks.

JamisonBWolsh

12-04-2002, 11:07 PM

I have been researching this on the net as well as usenet. Some poeple say its ok..some people say its not. Some say there is a "fungicide" coating the abs black pipe (im not sure what that is). But i couldnt find and evidence that says yes or no on this subject.

I know I see alot of the White piping (pvc) on the tanks at the aquarium musuems (aquarium of the pacific= to much to get in 18.00!!!!). But I have not once seen it at any lfs or at that musuem (only white). So will I use it? No... Do I want to use it? Yes! black is a better color.

But if its not safe for us human to drink from...then I am not going to subject my fish to that.. Not taking any chances because of a white..black issue..

just read that last statement you made.....I NEVER seen any black piping in ANY LFS here in Los angeles EVER. Just the white...

ArkyLady

12-04-2002, 11:08 PM

Originally posted by JamisonBWolsh
Did you try your local LFS? they sell it more expensive..but it is still cheaper then mailing it. Try www.bigalsonline.com

We have one private owned, small LFS (town is only 5k population). We do go to a larger town regularly to buy things we can't get here, such as beer :p

I live in Arkansas, so there are literally rocks EVERYWHERE, but I'm a bit uneasy to just start grabbing up random rocks from the creeks/woods and using them in my aquariums.

JamisonBWolsh

12-04-2002, 11:11 PM

Arky: then try bigalsonline.. they will sell it to you and you will be getting VERY good Rocks from them.. they have like 8 different kinds..I have their catalog. What you can do is when you go on vacation someplace..you can lugg it in your suitcase :) now that would be one HEAVY suitcase :)

You can see if your local hardware store can do a special order?

Yea.. same here. I need to know that if I am going to add something to my tank..it should be 100 percent safe..and since your not a geoligist (misspelled) you dont want an error to occur.....

slipknottin

12-04-2002, 11:14 PM

your already using plenty of ABS... in the form of that Emperor 400 you have.

the only reason ABS isnt listed as potable is because it doesnt handle the pressure. Has nothing to do with chemicals or leaching.

there are a couple very good links in this thread showing that. Id trust the experts at RC before the people on a usenet.

JamisonBWolsh

12-04-2002, 11:18 PM

Naw...not that type of plastic....The plastic made for the abs SEWEGE types are totally different..just because the plastic is black on the emperor 400 (not sure the emperor uses abs plastic?) doesnt mean its the same as the abs SEWEGE pipe.

I mean..would YOU put anything in your tank that has the word "made for SEWEGE" on it? I wouldnt. besides...what about the "anti-fungicide" coating on the sewege pipe?

slipknottin

12-04-2002, 11:23 PM

lol... its the same thing. made of the same material. just because its pipe or a filter doesnt mean its different stuff.

ABS is as stable as PVC, possibly more so. If it does have a coating on it, it would say on the pipe itself with a special marking.

no ABS tubing has a marking "sewage" on it. Thats just what it is commonly used for. Low pressure applications where it comes in contact with nasties. It needs to not leech or allow anything to leech into it, and it needs to be inexpensive...

you could use PVC for waste water too, and ive seen it done. It just costs alot more in the larger sizes (4" OD)

morleyz

12-04-2002, 11:37 PM

http://www.epa.gov/owm/mtb/pipe_construction.pdf

A nice link the compares the different types of pipes...

Also, Jameson, here's something to think about. If they were coating the insides of pipes for chemical, biological treatment of water, don't you think that would only be effective for a short time? Additionally, most wastewater treatment depends bacteria processes to breakdown our waste. I think they'd be a bit ticked if we were injecting bio-cides into the waste water system.

I agree with slip...the different compositions of plastic piping exist because of different needs in pressure requirements and flexibility.