Foggy Eyes?

[ViperGTS19801]

Our Plecco, Balas and Angel have kind of this foggy thing over their eyes, almost like cataracts. They are worse on some days, and the plecco and angel have only had them since today.

Interestingly, the plecco was found upside down this morning, and when we flipped him over, he seemed fine.

He was found upside down again this evening as well, but when flipped over again he seems fine (aside from the foggy lenses so to speak).

[liv2padl]

cloudy eyes in fish can have many causes including velvet, Ich, fish tuberculosis, corneal edema, cataracts, nutritional deficiency, bacterial infections, fungus, or on rare occasions digenetic flukes such as Diplostomum. trauma and hereditary factors can also be causative. in the vast majority of cases however, water quality is the issue. have you checked your ammonia, nitrite and nitrate levels?

[Dangerdoll]

I agree with liv, and in addition to that post, it is also very very difficult to treat with meds. The only tried and true cure is to practice religious water maintenance schedules and getting that water into pristine shape. Unfortunatley though, I would say you may lose at least 1.

[khombre]

I don't know I would be talking about the same thing but Tinfoil Barbs sometimes have this "hazy" looking eye when the water quality is poor. This happened to me once and what i did was to do alot of partial water changes. The cloudiness of the eye disappeared on its own after about a week since good or "pristine" water quality was restored. Yours, might be the same thing, or maybe not but the first thing I'd do right now is test the water parameters. If you have ammonia and/or nitrite > 0, do some water changes immediately.

By the way how long have you had these fishes? If they are relatively new did you cycle your tank? :dive:

[ViperGTS19801]

We really have to start doing consitent water changes anyhow. We haven't done any since we got these fish about a year ago.

[joylynn]

OK, hold on, don't do major water changes to start off. Change out about 5% of the water daily. You most likely have Old Tank Syndrome, where Dissolved Organic Compounds, hormones and all kinds of other fishy bi-products have built up. Your water has probably become "thick" doing a massive water change will "thin" it and can cause shock to your fish. For more information google "osmoregulation". Once you have changed 5% of the water daily for 2-3 weeks, then you can start doing 40-50% weekly, but please take it slow to start out or you will kill your fish.

[plah831]

yes, follow joylynn's advice. if you haven't done water changes in a year, that is most certainly the cause of the cloudy eyes and loss of fish. i'm sure you've got a full -blown case of OTS. and yes, at this point, a large water change could stress the fish to point of death. it's seems backward, since good clean water should be better for your fish, but like she said, your fish have become accustomed to living in their bad water. so follow her advice, start off gradually to get your fish used to better water again. then be good about your water changes. 25% weekly is the minimum recommended by most folks on this forum. i used to be bad about water changes, too (50% a month), and it led to all kinds of health problems in my fishes that i'm still paying for. now i do 40-60% EVERY WEEK, in each of 4 tanks, and my fishies love me for it. they've never been healthier or happier.

[Toirtis]

Agreed with the previous two posts....as well, the OTS probably has your pH around 4.5-5....and sudden, large partial water changes would increase it drastically and suddenly....which would also likely be fatal to most of your fish.

With no regular water changes, have you also been negligent on filter maintenance as well?

[ViperGTS19801]

About the 5% water changes...what should I use to treat the water before it goes into the tank?

[Dangerdoll]

a chlorine/chloramine remover if you get your water from the city. I don't think you need to use anything with well-water.

(chlorine remover is a water conditioner)

[ViperGTS19801]

We stopped at the local pet supply store today and picked up a few testing kits; ammonia, pH, and nitrite (they had no nitrate testing kits).

The numbers are as follows:

pH: 6.25
Nitrite: 0.25
Ammonia: 8.0+

The ammonia kit goes from 0 to 8, with dark green being the indicator for eight. Thats what color the test tube water is.

We're also going to treat for bacterial disease. Any other reccomendations?

[psilo]

Your ammonia is at lethal levels and is almost certainly the cause of the murky eyes in your fish. I had a swordtail with a totally white eye recently but as two fish also had a mild dose of ich i treated them with meds and they all were cured fine.
I would hazard a guess that if you dont do water changes then you also dont vaccum your tank. HIgh levels of ammonia like yours are very harmful to fish. Ammonia levels should read 0 but in your case as suggested above you cannot rectify this straight away with hefty water changes.
When doing your small water changes use a gravel vaccum and start to get some of the fish feaces out of the gravel as this will also help to bring your ammonia levels down.

[plah831]

agreed. your ammonia is shockingly high. i worry when ANY registers at all, but yours is off the chart! be prepared, though, that after you take care of ammonia (through frequent water changes) your nitrites will start to climb because the bacteria that convert nitrite to ammonia had to "wait" for the first step (ammonia to nitrite) to establish.

because you have old tank syndrome, though, a large water change is probably out of the question. maybe use Amquel Plus or some other ammonia-detoxifying product until your water changes can get large enough to make a difference? those products cannot REMOVE ammonia, but they just change it to the less harmful ionized form. therefore, it's not a miracle cure that makes water changes unnecessary.

what does anyone suggest for dealing with toxic levels of ammonia while dealing with OTS?

[ViperGTS19801]

Well, we replaced the lightbulb in the lid (the old one was dying, and this new one is REALLY bright), cleaned the front of the tank with windex, and cleared off three of the four insides with that fun magnetic brush thingie.

We administered the first dose of Ich treatment as well, and took psilo's advice and use the gravel vacuum to clean out some of the fish poopy. We'll add a half gallon of treated water tonight and another gallon in the morning to get the level of water back towards the top of the tank. Both bottles of water are sitting right now to balance overnight.

(edit) thanks to everyone for being so understanding and helpful. I had a bad experience before where everyone just told me to get rid of the fish because I was a bad owner.

Also, I noticed something interesting...every fish (both Balas and the Angel) have only one foggy eye, and they're all on the right.

[TheZoo]

Did you see signs of ich? Its generally not a good idea to treat for random things, its just putting more cr*p into your tank. I assume this was an ich tretment you bought at the LFS? Read this, its long, but worth the read.
http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39759
Stick with the slow water changes, and keep an eye on those parameters...

[TheZoo]

Oh, when you vacuum the gravel, make sure to push the siphon into the gravel, instead of just skimming the top. Youll get lots of poop and crud out that way. And, take out one of the "inserts" from your filter and rinse it in the old tank water. Just do one per wc.

[psilo]

My fish only had it in one eye too and looked really bad, you could barely see the eye but then i could see ich in my fish.
Glad you used your vac. Hopefully you should see a difference in the health of your fish soon :)

[Dangerdoll]

I wouldn't add anymore ich stuff either unless you see ich on the fish. It doesn't help with this infection so all you're really doing is adding chemicals to the water which adds to stress the fish. Water changes is all the cloudy eye calls for.

[Zen4t5]

Well, we replaced the lightbulb in the lid (the old one was dying, and this new one is REALLY bright), cleaned the front of the tank with windex, and cleared off three of the four insides with that fun magnetic brush thingie.
Just use a paper towel and water/vinegar when cleaning the outside of the tank. I just use water and some elbow grease. Any ammonia based cleaning products should not be used on any part of an aquarium. Ammonia can seep through the glass and crystalize on acrylic. This can be fatal to your fish.

[Dangerdoll]

Just use a paper towel and water/vinegar when cleaning the outside of the tank. I just use water and some elbow grease. Any ammonia based cleaning products should not be used on any part of an aquarium. Ammonia can seep through the glass and crystalize on acrylic. This can be fatal to your fish.
seep through glass?

[Zen4t5]

That's what I've been told. I am no scientist. What I was told was that glass is porous and that glass is actually an extremly slow moving liquid. I am a home inspector so I have exp with window glass. Don't know if there are different grades of glass for aquariums. In old windows, the glass becomes thicker on the bottom than the top. That is the glass very slowly following gravity. I have told that certain chemicals can seep through the glass. Chemical molecules can be much smaller than water molecules. I don't personally know if that is true, but it makes sense if glass is a liquid. Also all aquarists make sure that there is no cross contamination with any form of cleaning products. Why would Windex be ok?

I have added a couple links that also back this.

www.nutricraze.com/Article_about_How-to-clean-an-aquarium-a-3982.html
http://www.ehow.com/how_3260_clean-aquarium.html
http://aquaria.net/articles/glass/cleaning/

[TheZoo]

I think theres a bigger danger of overspray or other contamination, rather than seepage. Im no scientist either, but even though glass is technically a very viscous liquid, I doubt that its so pourous that things will seep through it. Ive never seen anything go through glass without breaking it. But, prove me wrong, someone!

[Dangerdoll]

I know that over time, if you clean glass with a colored cleaner, the glass itself with begin to show a tint of that color but I've just never heard of ammonia seeping through it. I would think it would take a lot of time if it were to happen but who knows... if people warn against it, it can't hurt to avoid it.

[Zen4t5]

I think theres a bigger danger of overspray or other contamination, rather than seepage. Im no scientist either, but even though glass is technically a very viscous liquid, I doubt that its so pourous that things will seep through it. Ive never seen anything go through glass without breaking it. But, prove me wrong, someone!
I agree, overspray is a much bigger danger. I try to look at it this way, regular glass cleaners are definetly toxic to fish. I personally don't want it anywhere near my tank. I only use water and paper towels. I don't have any smudges, streaks, or cloudiness on my glass. It is crystal clear. If I can keep my glass clean without any toxic cleaning product, I just don't see the need to endanger my fish. No matter how small the risk. Not to mention, water is much cheaper. For tough smudges on the glass, just add a little vinegar.

I don't think glass is so porous that it can be seen immediatly with the naked eye or in a long sitting period. It is something that happens on a microscopic level and over a long time period. I would not bet my house on this though. I just don't think it can hurt anybody in any way by not using regular cleaning products to clean their glass.

[TheZoo]

Oh, I agree! Vinegar for me (whole house, basically!), its got wonderful properties without all the extra grossness. But I am still interested in this idea of glass allowing chemicals through...would plexiglass (acrylic) or bulletproof glass do the same?