5gal Tank - Too small for 4 Odessa Barbs?

[neilmack]

I have a 5gal tank with 2 male and 2 female odessa barbs.
I have a sponge power filter running on max.
Gravel, bridge (6cmx2cmx4cm) and 2 plastic plants rising up 60% of water level and the odd pebble.

Is this environment wrong/too small for the barbs?

[echoofformless]

Not by fish size, but by type of fish I would say you're running small.

Barbs are very active and thrashy - they require lots of room in general, and thus I would recommend moving up a few sizes if you plan to keep these fish perfectly happy.

Naturally I assume the small tank police will chime in on this thread eventually, but I'm going to say that I think they're okay for the time being while you invest in a good twenty or thirty gallon tank for them.

[neilmack]

It has been suggested (on another thread - "Barbs - hiding under bridge") that the tank is too small. Yes they do swim fast and thrash about and did think perhaps I needed a bigger tank. But I have no room for a bigger tank at the mo so it'll have to do for now. Maybe I will remove all obstacles (except the bridge where they like to hide) to give them more room.

[echoofformless]

Barbs tend to like lots of plants as well...you might consider increasing your plant load if possible.

[neilmack]

In that case, I may remove the 2 fake plants and buy one or two proper plants... but I heard although plants oxygenate the water in the day, during the night it does the opposite. And would I have to do more water changes if I had real plants, as they would make more mess, wouldn't they?!

[echoofformless]

Actually you do less water changes with a well planted tank, so long as the plants are healthy and thriving. They remove nitrates and phosphates.

They do breathe oxygen at night - but your filter provides more than enough surface agitation to keep the gases exchanged.

One thing of course is that plants aren't something you just jump into - read up and research if you're planning on planting the tank.

But the rewards are well worth it.

[dorkfish]

In that case, I may remove the 2 fake plants and buy one or two proper plants... but I heard although plants oxygenate the water in the day, during the night it does the opposite. And would I have to do more water changes if I had real plants, as they would make more mess, wouldn't they?!

Live plants are not like fake plants at all, they need specialized lighting, specialzed nutrients/dosing, and in some cases specialized substrates. It's probably best to stick with fake plants, until you can further your research into live plants.

Live plants gennerally do need a bigger minumum weekly water change of aprox. 40-50%, to keep unused nutrients (nutrients that bad algaes can use) at bay, verses the bare minmum of 25% weekly for a fish only tank. Personally, I think it's best to do 50% weekly changes in all freshwater tanks, so that extra bit of mantenence is removed for me. Yes, they do create more of a "mess" if they are not in good health or they get damaged, but for the most part, there as "clean" as fake plants (btw, after having tanks and fake plants for years, I can assure you that fake plants can shed there leaves just like live plants, if they get shaken about too much and are old).

[dorkfish]

Actually you do less water changes with a well planted tank, so long as the plants are healthy and thriving. They remove nitrates and phosphates.

I'm sorry but that simply isn't true. the plants don't remove the dissolved organic compounds(DOC's) from the water, only water changes can do that. This is the same reason why easybalance and similar products don't work.

[echoofformless]

I'm sorry but that simply isn't true. the plants don't remove the dissolved organic compounds(DOC's) from the water, only water changes can do that. This is the same reason why easybalance and similar products don't work.


There's a reason why people have to add nitrates to their water with things like stump remover - plants absorb them. Same for phosphates. Not only do I know this from reading and studying but from experience - all of my heavily planted tanks have readings of 0 for nitrates until I do water changes with my slightly nitrate-ified Philadelphia tap water, and within a few days all of the nitrates are gone.

There are many very experienced plant keepers who post on this amd other forums who maintain highl;y advanced planted tanks with very little and sometimes no water changes at all. Now while I am not anywhere near that level of attainment, I would be hard pressed to say something in disagreement with these people. And the fact that they say they have to add nitrates to their tanks to keep up with their plants demand for them kind of shows that the plants just might...just might be consuming nitrate.

In addition to this, EasyBalance has absolutely nothing to do with the actions of plant matter. Its claim is that it contains the bacteria which eats nitrate. Therefore the assertion that plants and EasyBalance don't or do work for the same reason is beyond my understanding.

EasyBalance is liquid snake oil crap from tetra. Plants are living organisms which consume nutrients. Entirely different entities. :read:

[dorkfish]

There's a reason why people have to add nitrates to their water with things like stump remover - plants absorb them. Same for phosphates. Not only do I know this from reading and studying but from experience - all of my heavily planted tanks have readings of 0 for nitrates until I do water changes with my slightly nitrate-ified Philadelphia tap water, and within a few days all of the nitrates are gone.

There are many very experienced plant keepers who post on this amd other forums who maintain highl;y advanced planted tanks with very little and sometimes no water changes at all. Now while I am not anywhere near that level of attainment, I would be hard pressed to say something in disagreement with these people. And the fact that they say they have to add nitrates to their tanks to keep up with their plants demand for them kind of shows that the plants just might...just might be consuming nitrate.

In addition to this, EasyBalance has absolutely nothing to do with the actions of plant matter. Its claim is that it contains the bacteria which eats nitrate. Therefore the assertion that plants and EasyBalance don't or do work for the same reason is beyond my understanding.

EasyBalance is liquid snake oil crap from tetra. Plants are living organisms which consume nutrients. Entirely different entities. :read:

I know that plants consume nitrates and phosphates, and that they have to be added in some cases. I have done my research. however plants do not consume dissolved organic compounds. Nitrate is only a good indicator of dissolved organic compounds(wich are harmful) and nitrate in itself is not harmfull. When you remove nitrate and not the DOC's it indicates, via plants, your still not stopping the tank from eventually going into old tank syndrom.

My easy balance comparison is valid. plants consume nitrate and not DOC's, and easy balace suposedly does the same.

[echoofformless]

I know that plants consume nitrates and phosphates, and that they have to be added in some cases. I have done my research. however plants do not consume dissolved organic compounds. Nitrate is only a good indicator of dissolved organic compounds(wich are harmful) and nitrate in itself is not harmfull. When you remove nitrate and not the DOC's it indicates, via plants, your still not stopping the tank from eventually going into old tank syndrom.

My easy balance comparison is valid. plants consume nitrate and not DOC's, and easy balace suposedly does the same.


True about the DOCs but we weren't talking about those...just nitrates. So that's pretty much just a syntax issue.

Only thing is, if you read your post's wording - "the plants don't remove the dissolved organic compounds(DOC's) from the water, only water changes can do that. This is the same reason why easybalance and similar products don't work." it sounds indicative that both EasyBalance and plants work on the same mechanism. In other words, they don't fail to remove DOCs for the same reason. But yeah....still true.