Cycling a new saltwater tank

[beckham0237]

I think I read that Damselfish can be used to spped up/aid in the cycling process of a new tank, what is the best kind of damsel to get?

[dorkfish]

I think I read that Damselfish can be used to spped up/aid in the cycling process of a new tank, what is the best kind of damsel to get?

No kind of damsel or fish for that matter should ever be exposed to the toxic water conditions that will apear during the cycle. The amonia will burn away at the fishes gills, unless your doing daily (most likely something you can't afford) water changes to keep amonia close to zero. Also, damsels aren't that hardy in my expierience, or not in good health, probably becuase of all the ammonia they have been exposed to (my old fish store was an advocate of the "you can't kill a damsel" movement - my first three damsels died in three days).

If you really want to speed up the cycle, and cost is not an issue, get all live sand for substraste, and *quality cured rock(see note)* and you may be able to do a 14 day cycle. Or, you could purchase some garf (http://www.garf.org/) grunge (scroll down the page to see links to different kinds of "grunge"), and possibly do it sooner, but I would wait atleast 2 weeks following either of these methods before putting fish in, regardless if the tank cycles before then; if it doesn't cycle before then wait longer.

note: most "cured" live rock is not cured at all, and a lot of die off (what causes live rock to not be "cured") will occur during shipping between where the rock was cured and your local fish store. It's best to either buy uncured live rock, so you get more benificial micro - fuana and flora, or to buy live rock form other hobbyists who are taking a marine/reef aquarium down.

[beckham0237]

Ok thanks for the info, I was thinking about seeting up a 12 gallon nano cube with a pair of occelaris or percula clownfish to live in it. How many pounds of live rock should I use, and what kind of live sand is the best? Thanks for all the help.

[dorkfish]

10-15 ilbs of live rock is good. If it's available to you, the garf grunge plus is best according to what I've read on there site (they don't just say this kind is best, they explain why it's best.), but I'm not sure on actual "live sand" that you would get at a local fish store. You could probably do a 4-6 week cycle with "cured" live rock you get from you local fish store, so use aragonite sand instead of live sand if you want. Remember, nothing good happens fast, so it's best to take it slowly to make sure that there isn't anything wrong.

Oh ya, this is how you would cycle your tank with live rock, if you don't know this already:

You need to cycle the tank with uncured live rock, wich can take over a month, before adding fish to the tank. Purchase 15-20 ilbs of live rock, and monitor amonia and nitrite levels (with an accurate test kit, I recomend you purchase an aquarium phamicuetical's slatwater master test kit). You should see a spike of amonia, followed by that dropping back to zero, then the same for nitrite. Once nitrite drops back to zero after a spike, you are ready to add your first fishes, preferably a pair of the clowns.

Please note: during the time period in wich you are monitoring amonia and nitrite, watch out for any pest hitch-hikers that may have came in on the rock. Some pests are cpable of eating your fish and anything else that moves (mantas shrmp), and some will take over your whole tank (aiptasia/glass anemones), so you need to keep a watchfull eye on the tank and take corective measures when nessisary.

(copied from one of my posts to another thread)

[beckham0237]

Wow, thanks for all the information dorkfish, if i wanted to add an anemone for the clowns, how long should I wait after the cycle and the addititon of the new fish? Along with that, would anything else be able to fit in the tank without overstocking, such as interesting types of invertebrates?

[dorkfish]

Wow, thanks for all the information dorkfish, if i wanted to add an anemone for the clowns, how long should I wait after the cycle and the addititon of the new fish? Along with that, would anything else be able to fit in the tank without overstocking, such as interesting types of invertebrates?

You shouldn't add an anemone, period. They have very poor survival rates in captivity (whereas they rarely if ever die in the wild ; they literally live forever if conditions are to remain their liking), and I'd guess that 98% of all anemones offered in fish and pet stores are wild collected, so your taking some poor clownfish's anemone away (almost garanteeing something will eat the clown, if you think about it).

I'd also like to add that most clownfish seen in fish or pet stores are tank rased or bred, and have never even seen an anemone, and are just as likely to host in soft corals and some large polyped stony corals as they are to host in an anemone; my clown is occasionally seen trying to host in my tiny colony of 5 button polyps.

Corals(I suggest you start with muchrooms and other hardy soft corals), the smaller hermit crabs, snails,some starfish, shrimps ect. can all be added without increasing the bioload significantly. However, I can't tell you much about stocking or what you can put in your tank your tank if you don't give me a description of your set up (filtration, live rock, tank size, lighting, powerheads).

[jm1212]

if you really wanted an anemone you could try some fake ones made of soft material, but i dont know how they affect the salt water

[beckham0237]

You shouldn't add an anemone, period. They have very poor survival rates in captivity (whereas they rarely if ever die in the wild ; they literally live forever if conditions are to remain their liking), and I'd guess that 98% of all anemones offered in fish and pet stores are wild collected, so your taking some poor clownfish's anemone away (almost garanteeing something will eat the clown, if you think about it).

I'd also like to add that most clownfish seen in fish or pet stores are tank rased or bred, and have never even seen an anemone, and are just as likely to host in soft corals and some large polyped stony corals as they are to host in an anemone; my clown is occasionally seen trying to host in my tiny colony of 5 button polyps.

Corals(I suggest you start with muchrooms and other hardy soft corals), the smaller hermit crabs, snails,some starfish, shrimps ect. can all be added without increasing the bioload significantly. However, I can't tell you much about stocking or what you can put in your tank your tank if you don't give me a description of your set up (filtration, live rock, tank size, lighting, powerheads).

If I do set up a Nano reef, I would probobly buy a 12 gallon tank from here http://www.aquaticeco.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/product.detail/iid/76/cid/24
and I would get the one with the Nite-Vu light and the regular light (24 watt), unless the delux version with 2 lights would be better. I would proboly go with around 15 lbs. of live rock as you suggested. As for filtration I would use what comes with the nano-cube (3 stage built into the back, pump circulates the water 9 times an hour), and possibly add a protein skimmer, although I'm not sure if i need to or not, I've heard differing opinions. As for powerheads I dont know what i would or if i need one. Thanks for all your help.

[beckham0237]

if you really wanted an anemone you could try some fake ones made of soft material, but i dont know how they affect the salt water

Do you know where they sell the fake ones? this seems pretty interesting

[jm1212]

they have them on drs.fostersmith.com if you want individual species (long tentacle, colonial, mushroom), or you could go to petsmart and get a grouping of two different species ( i know they have a colonial and long tentacle combo and a mushroom colonial combo), before you buy at petsmart though, check the tentacles on the long tentacles to see that they are all still attached... sometimes stock people are careless or bad people come and pull them off :(

[dorkfish]

Sounds like a decent set up. crabs, snails and shrimp (would be a good idea to wait this long before adding the fish, regardless if the tank cycled before this, although they can be added after the tank cycles) can be added aprox. two months after setting the tank up, mushrooms can be added 3 months after setting the tank up, and tube worms and more demandiing soft corals can be added after aprox. 4-5 months after setting the tank up.

An effective protien skimmer would be benificial but not nessissary, however you need to remember that many protien skimmers are not effective. A pwer head is also benificial, and I highly recomend it, however, it is not completely essential.

Iv'e seen the fake anemones at wal-mart and petsmart.

[beckham0237]

Could I keep a pair of pink skunk clownfish in the tank after i cycles? Or would they get too big?

[dorkfish]

Could I keep a pair of pink skunk clownfish in the tank after i cycles? Or would they get too big?

That's hard to say. Pink skunk clowns get to 3.9 inches, while ocelaris and percula clowns grow to 3.2 inches. There's not much of a difference in size (.7 inches), but I would go out on a whim and go with a bigger tank (atleast a 20g) for sunk clowns, if I really wanted them. It probably could work, but I wouldn't attempt it and would go with ocelaris or percual clowns.

If you want something different than clownfish, there are a lot of options available to you, heres a link that pretty much covers what you can have: http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/scateg.cfm?pCatId=2124

[beckham0237]

If i bumped it up to a 24 Gal. (Seen here: http://www.petsolutions.com/The+Aquapod+24+Gal+-I-42907051-I-C-11-C-.aspx), would I have to worry about getting a sump/refugium?

[beckham0237]

On second though would I have to worry about that even if I got the 12 gal?

[dorkfish]

If i bumped it up to a 24 Gal. (Seen here: http://www.petsolutions.com/The+Aquapod+24+Gal+-I-42907051-I-C-11-C-.aspx), would I have to worry about getting a sump/refugium?

A sump is a completely optional piece of eqipment and is not nessisary, although it does make the water parameters more stable, can make water changes and siphoning easier, if you know how to use it and may add a little bit to the carying capacity.

[beckham0237]

Ok, what I was thinking about was sticking with the 12 gallon and getting a pair of black and white percula clownfish. If I got these two fish would I be able to add any others, such as a firefish? If not, would adding a sump enable me to add one? Thanks for all the help.

[dorkfish]

Ok, what I was thinking about was sticking with the 12 gallon and getting a pair of black and white percula clownfish. If I got these two fish would I be able to add any others, such as a firefish? If not, would adding a sump enable me to add one? Thanks for all the help.

No, two percula clownfish is all you can have fish wise in a 12g tank. I think that's pushing it a little with the bioload (I prefer aprox. 1 fish per 10 gallons, although more can be done if your carefull) so I wouldn't add anything else even if you did get the sump.

[beckham0237]

OK thanks, So if i just stick with the 12 gallon and the perculas, how big of a sump would i need to get?

[dorkfish]

OK thanks, So if i just stick with the 12 gallon and the perculas, how big of a sump would i need to get?

You don't need it, but a 5-10g sump should be good.

[beckham0237]

What kind of protein skimmer would you reccomend that I get?

[dorkfish]

What kind of protein skimmer would you reccomend that I get?
In that size of tank, I would forget about a skimer and just do 25% weekly water changes to remove nutrients, instead of a skimmer.

[beckham0237]

Ok thanks, so the 12 gallon plus the 2 percs, what kind of inverts could I get?

[dorkfish]

what kind of inverts could I get?

Most soft corals, a cleaner shrimp, 5 blue leg hermit crabs (with lots if extra shells) and 10 astrea sp. snails would be a good mix, although there are many, many other inverts you could get. If you would like something different than that, look through the sites in my member page to pick some out, and then post what your getting here to make sure there won't be any problems.

[beckham0237]

What about the sexy shrimp? Those look pretty cool and live aquaria says care is easy The bumble bee shrimp are neat as well, although care level is moderate. I do like the regular ol cleaner shrimp too. I like the spider decorator carb although i think it might be too aggressive. Also, which kind of hermit crab wwould be the best, because they are all neat. Thanks again for all the help.