If water is good, do you still change it?

[guppygal]

This is my first stretch of a couple of days where my ammonia and nitrite are 0. Ph is 7 water temp is 80 in a 10 gal.

If I test everyday and the water is good, I don't need to change it, correct?

I will start doing water changes every 7 days if water stays good - instead of every day (which I have been doing while cycling).

10 gallon
3 male guppies - week 4 of new tank

[Ms.Bubbles]

You don't have to change water if ammonia and nitrite are at 0. If nitrates go above 20ppm you would need to do a partial w/c.

I would just keep an eye on it every day or so, and change 20-30% weekly if things remain the same.

[jm1212]

yes you still have to change it, for the fish use up minerals in the water, and they are replenished via PWC

edit: i re-read the post... if the ammoina and nitrite are in check than you do not have to change the water more than the weeklys :)

[myfishandi]

I will start doing water changes every 7 days if water stays good - instead of every day (which I have been doing while cycling).

Once a week is what I do now but when my tank was finished cycling at first I took readings every couple days to be sure all was right where it should be.
Keep an eye on the Nitrate now especially because now that yours is cycled, Nitrate will be increasing.
The amount to change weekly will be governed largely by the level of Nitrates, not soley by Nitrate levels though since there are other contaminants your removing at the same time as well as vacuuming.

[attiladahun]

are nitrates really bad for the fish? my lfs told me a long time ago that fish don't mind nitrates at any level, but i've heard that too much (more that about 20ppm) are bad

[plah831]

yeah, high nitrates for a long period of time is harmful to fish. if nothing else, they result in old tank syndrome where your fish become accustomed to poor water quality so that when you do a water change, the good water stresses them out and might kill them. most people aim to keep nitrates below 20 ppm as you said. if you have live plants, you add nitrate to feed them, but i think you still don't want it above 20 ppm for the sake of your fish.

[liv2padl]

If I test everyday and the water is good, I don't need to change it, correct? no, wrong. there are numerous contaminants in the water that you cannot test for. for example, there are a variety of dissolved ORGANIC POLLUTANTS, substances such as proteins, amino acids, phenolic compounds, pheromones (hormones that affect the behavior of other fish) and other metabolic byproducts which are continuously being discharged into the aquarium water by the fish. If these DOCs are allowed to become concentrated in the water, the health of the fish will suffer.

for example, laboratory studies have shown that high levels of DOC are associated with reduced fish feeding rates, slower growth, decreased reproduction rates, lower immune system activity and blooms of pathogenic bacteria in the water. it is now believed that many of the fish health problems thought to be the result of high nitrates are actually caused by DOCs.

in addition to those organic compounds noted above, inorganic byproducts of the nitrogen cycle in any aquatic environment also buildup in an your water. ammonia and nitrite are taken care of by your biofilter and converted to nitrate. this latter product can only be removed by dilution through water changes.

so while you may be thinking your fish are just fine, even without water changes, or if your water 'tests fine', in fact they are not. the most obvious example, in the absence of outright disease and/or death is how long your fish live. many hobbyists simply replace fish after they die without a thought to how long that fish should have lived. goldfish can live for 30 years, however i'd be VERY surprised if anyone on this forum or elsewhere has been able to maintain a GF for more than 5-7 years. mollies for 5 years? a red tail shark or other cyprinids for 10 years? Characoids (tetras) such as Neons, Cardinals, Bloodfins and Rummy Nose Tetras, Glassfish and Hatchet fish for 10 years? corydoras for 8 years? i'd suggest to you that you need to keep up your tank maintainance including water changes.

[Ms.Bubbles]

liv2padl & jm1212 read guppygal's post again. She has already stated that she plans to change the water on a weekly basis. She's asking if she needs to change the water BEFORE the week is up if no ammonia and nitrites appear before then.

Guppygal, weekly water changes are the recommended method. You're on the right track.

[guppygal]

liv2padl & jm1212 read guppygal's post again. She has already stated that she plans to change the water on a weekly basis. She's asking if she needs to change the water BEFORE the week is up if no ammonia and nitrites appear before then.

Guppygal, weekly water changes are the recommended method. You're on the right track.

Thank you Ms. Bubbles for sticking up for me :D

[graphicdesign_r]

I missed that too, just for anyone else that does readin this thread, weekly water changes should be always be done for all of the reasons liv2padl mentioned.

I don't even check my parameters any more (unless problems arise), I just do my WCs and trust that to keep the water quality good.

[liv2padl]

hey, i missed that part. sorry 'bout that. now go change your water. ;-)

[sumthin fishy]

are nitrates really bad for the fish? my lfs told me a long time ago that fish don't mind nitrates at any level, but i've heard that too much (more that about 20ppm) are bad
High nitrates are not harmful to fish in the "hit yourself in the head with a hammer" kind of harm, but the "smoke a pack a day" kind of harm. You won't notice any of the effects untill it is far too late to help them. Thier lifespan will be decreased, but its not like they will all of a sudden drop dead or have siezures once the nitrate in your tank hits 21ppm. Excessive nitrates are bad for just about any animal, not just fish.

[tricksterpup]

hey, i missed that part. sorry 'bout that. now go change your water. ;-)
Nah, I think you are ok.. It is something that did needed to be posted as well. Its information that many newbies need to know.

[podheadx]

Im sure ill get some grief about this one but...

Ive been in the hobby for some time now, over 10 yrs, and ive been livin off my own experience and some dull LFS info, untill now ive got internet and been readin alot more on how others do it.

Quote: weekly water changes are the recommended method.

When did it change to doing a water change EVERY WEEK?

I can see doing that around a cycle or in a problimatic tank, but after everything is calm, you still do it every week.

For years now Ive always gone by monthly water changes and not alot, around 30%, now granted I never "overstock" my tanks, (except for in the begining and i learned fast) I dont overfeed, and Ive always had good luck with keeping all my pets happy and, tanks lookin good. Ive kept many a fish alive 4+ yrs. this way.

But like I said im new to the internet chat on fish, so maybe you guys/gals know more than me, cause Im sure some of you have been doin this since ive been around, but its gonna take some good reasons for me to change how ive been doing this for years.

So If water is good, I don't change it, unless its been a month.

[sumthin fishy]

Well pod, the weekly thing is a general rule, erring on the side of caution. I would rather over do it than under do it. For common stocking levels, a week will go by and the nitrate levels will get to a point that a change is needed. I have gone a few weeks in my tanks without getting above 20 ppm nitrate. I still continue the weekly changes since I know that will benifit my fish. While posting in these forums, we want to really over do it with water quality and stocking levels(both by fish size and compatability) untill folks can understand why they are doing things the way we recomend. This board consists of a lot of people new to the hobby who need to learn to crawl before they can walk. As with any rule, there are ways arround it and exceptions, but it's best to leave those out of posts. If they are cited in your post, an explaination as to why you do it, and that it may not be the best practice for someone new to the hobby is in order. A large majority of the people here want to provide the best possible conditions for ALL fish (not just the ones in thier tank, but the ones in everyone elses too), they dont want them to just live, but to thrive in the environments we provide them.

Keeping a fish alve 4+ years is a broad statement. There are some that rarely live 2 years, and others that can live 80+ ;) Do you base your monthly changes on a water analysis at all?

[Ms.Bubbles]

I ditto what sumthinfishy said, and also:

Weekly water changes help keep nutrient levels in the water down, so algae is less of a problem.

Weekly water changes provide a continuous source of nutrients for planted tanks, while ensuring that added fertilizers don't build up to excessive levels.

Weekly water changes keep water parameters fairly consistent from week to week, and fish enjoy water parameters that remain stable.

If something weird occurs in the tank (fish death, ammonia/nitrite spike, etc) and a large water change is required, the large volume of new water will be similar to the old tank water, so it won't shock and stress the fish.

[graphicdesign_r]

Ive kept many a fish alive 4+ yrs. this way.

But like I said im new to the internet chat on fish, so maybe you guys/gals know more than me, cause Im sure some of you have been doin this since ive been around, but its gonna take some good reasons for me to change how ive been doing this for years.

This is like saying "I've kepts cats alive this way for over 5 years." Everyone knows cats should live over 5 years...

A good reason to change your maintenence schedule would be, to have healthier, longer lived fish. It's scientifically proven to be the case.

You can argue with the science, but you'll still be wrong.

[Rbishop]

Im sure ill get some grief about this one but...

Ive been in the hobby for some time now, over 10 yrs, and ive been livin off my own experience and some dull LFS info, untill now ive got internet and been readin alot more on how others do it.

Quote: weekly water changes are the recommended method.

When did it change to doing a water change EVERY WEEK?

I can see doing that around a cycle or in a problimatic tank, but after everything is calm, you still do it every week.

For years now Ive always gone by monthly water changes and not alot, around 30%, now granted I never "overstock" my tanks, (except for in the begining and i learned fast) I dont overfeed, and Ive always had good luck with keeping all my pets happy and, tanks lookin good. Ive kept many a fish alive 4+ yrs. this way.

But like I said im new to the internet chat on fish, so maybe you guys/gals know more than me, cause Im sure some of you have been doin this since ive been around, but its gonna take some good reasons for me to change how ive been doing this for years.

So If water is good, I don't change it, unless its been a month.

Have maintained tanks/fish for 30+ years....when wasn't it weekly?

IMO you can get away with less, but it is not best.

[sumthin fishy]

Something I would like to bring up from another post. Someone mentioned a theoretical 10,000 gallon tank with only a few neon tetras. I really doubt it would require weekly or even monthly changes. So there's another reason for my statement that this is just a general guideline to go by, and not a set in stone, "fish will die now if you dont do it", kind of thing.

[podheadx]

Quote: keeping fish alive 4+ yrs is a broad statement:
Ya I know, I was just showin that my fish don't die a day before that monthly water change.

Quote: If something weird occurs in the tank (fish death, ammonia/nitrite spike, etc) and a large water change is required, the large volume of new water will be similar to the old tank water, so it won't shock and stress the fish:

Very good point, I always worried a bit when I had to do a lg water change, and that would take care of that.

Quote:...when wasn't it weekly?

Ive never heard of weekly, if thats what the first person told me before I bought my first tank I probably wouldn't have bought one. The only time line ive heard of before was once a month, unless its needed for whatever reason. Like I said before, im new to getting outside help other than what LFS have told me...are you saying they LIE? haha

You all have some good points to make, and I actualy do more that 12/yr I don't mark down when I do it on a certain day I just know when its time for each tank, I have a few tanks, and this works for me.
Happy healthy fish, some algae but not out of control just trace amounts, but there are LONG term effects!
Youve talked me into steping it up in my changes, I don't know about weekly, do you really pick a day like Monday and every 7 days do a change on that tank? Or every week is vaugue and really means 10 days is close enough this week and next might be 8 days? Cause I could pull bi-weekly changes even if nothing was wrong with my water.

I won't give out my "It works" as advice, but like helping others out in need, and thankx to you for helpin out a born again newbie. Sorry for buddin in on this thread guppygal

[khombre]

Ive never heard of weekly, if thats what the first person told me before I bought my first tank I probably wouldn't have bought one. The only time line ive heard of before was once a month, unless its needed for whatever reason. Like I said before, im new to getting outside help other than what LFS have told me...are you saying they LIE? haha


Actually, most of the time, they don't know what they are talking about. Not all though, there are some lfs with knowledgeable people but there are tons out there who don't even know anything about fishkeeping. :p:

[Rbishop]

On a couple of my tanks, the weekly is just that and very much set in stone, every Saturday morning. Others may slide a day or two either way depending on my schedule. Since I am of the weekly frame of mind, if I slide a day, I do not have much to worry about. Some tanks get a couple a week and even two with daily right now.

[podheadx]

Alright lets reverse this, how much is too much?

Is there a point where too many water changes will occur in loosing your bacteria, causing a problem and you will have to redo your cycle?

I know you shouldn't take all the water out on a single change, but if you did 25%/day for four days, the majority of the original water would be gone. Is this a problem? What about each day for 10 days wouldn't this be to much?

Also on your weekly water changes do you siphon the gravel each change or every other, or do the gravel in sections?

[plah831]

it's very difficult to remove the nitrifying bacteria through water changes or gravel vacuuming. you could actually change 100% of your water out all at once, and the bacteria would be fine as long as the gravel is still there and the filter sponge is kept moist.

You can also vacuum all your gravel at once. I used to do that, dig the siphon all the way to the bottom, mix the gravel around in all layers, and it was just fine. Now I prefer to siphon half the gravel at a time and leave the decorations and plants on the other half, because my fish preferred having some place to hide while I'm mucking around in their home.

I do 50% water changes sometimes twice a week and it's actually GOOD for the tank. It keeps your tank water closer to source water conditions, so that the addition of clean water does nothing to shock them (as it can if you have a very dirty tank, it's called Old Tank Syndrome).

[echoofformless]

I do 50% water changes sometimes twice a week and it's actually GOOD for the tank. It keeps your tank water closer to source water conditions, so that the addition of clean water does nothing to shock them (as it can if you have a very dirty tank, it's called Old Tank Syndrome).

Absolute truth - if your source water is drastically different from your tank water and you go a while without doing a change (forgot...too lazy...vacation...etc) you could shock the fish when you do finally get around to the change.

Then there are also special considerations if you have any specialty tanks- I'm running two blackwater tanks here, and use Philly tap water which is hard and alkaline. So I have to make frequent, but very small water changes. (Just more reason to be using r/o...yes...but I'm poor or something.)

But if you have just a general community tank in which you're running no special modifications to the water, you could theoretically do a large water change every single day if you really wish.

hehe

[plah831]

...but I'm poor or something.
What's the "something"? :p:

Thanks for backin' me up, echo.

[echoofformless]

What's the "something"? :p:

Thanks for backin' me up, echo.

The something is probably that I end up spending my money on more fish, more supplies, or food! I'm a fat kid after all. :dance:

[plah831]

The something is probably that I end up spending my money on more fish, more supplies, or food! I'm a fat kid after all. :dance:
LOL :D

[IceH2O]

i'd be VERY surprised if anyone on this forum or elsewhere has been able to maintain a GF for more than 5-7 years.

I have a goldfish,Fantail, that is at least 5 years old if not older. Pretty good considering he was stuck in a 20 gallon long for the first 4 and a half years with other fish and slack water changes.
I still keep him with other tropicals, danios guppies and Black Skirt Tetras, but in a 55 gallon tank.No heater in the tank but it sits around 76-78. Still going strong and he is as big as my hand easy.

I only wish I knew what I was doing to him all those years.

[graphicdesign_r]

Goldfish routinely live over 20 years. The record is something ridiculous like 40+ years. Kept in the right conditions there is no reason 5-7 years is even close to questionable.

Someone might not have the dedication to care for a fish that long, but that's not the fish's fault.

[podheadx]

I guess that I always thought if my fish are looking ok and nothing else is wrong that I must be doing everything alright, but Its hard to look at the long term picture.

I do remember hearing once that nitrates don't hurt your fish now, but long term contact with high nitrates did have many bad effects on the fish.

I can see how If nothing (seems to be nothing) is wrong with your water, you should change it.

Thankx all, your knowledge and help is going to good use!

[Grundy]

I think also that we should promote the "ideal" rather than the "pretty good". I myself strive for wekly water changes but it is probably more like every 7-12 days on average. BUT, if I was shooting for every 12 days human nature is such that it would probably be more like 14-15, etc. So yeah, weekly is great but a larger, less-stocked tank has more wiggle room and I don't think someone should be ridiculed because he or she does it on a different schedule (as long as they are consistent and it gets the job done). All of us here, I think, are trying to do what is best for the fish otherwise we would not be here. :D

[plah831]

Thankx all, your knowledge and help is going to good use!
Glad to hear it! :)

There's still hope for Aquaria Central...