Ammonia Problem

[hugebass]

Some of you may have read my post in this thread: http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=78828

I've been battling an ammonia spike from adding too many fish too fast (I think). I've been changing the water daily about 25% adding ammo-lock each time to detox the ammonia and break down the metals. I also add BIOZYME hoping to enhance the bacteria growth. Here in PHX we have very hard water. It has been a week but I can't seem to get the ammonia levels to go away. It always drops after the water change, but the next day it's back up.

I have 10 1-2" africans in a 75G tank. I dropped my feedings to once a day and the fish seem to be thriving. However, I still have this ammonia problem. Nitrates and Nitries are at great levels. Ph is also perfect. Just this stupid ammonia.

Q: Could there be a biological filter problem?
Q: Am I not being patient? Will this take 3-4wks? (Its only been 1)

Thanks,

Reed

[~*LuvMyKribs*~]

Ammonia will take at least a week to "go away", since the cycle needs to establish itself. Do you have access to an established filter sponge from another tank? That will help seed your bacteria.

Keep in mind that when you add ammonia detox you will still test for ammonia, even though it will be in its less toxic form, thus will not have any terrible effects on your fish. Be testing for nitrite as well though, because that can be just as deadly as ammonia and will peak next during the cycle.

Now, that being said, you must be careful adding ammonia remover, since it will prevent the cycle from progressing onto the next nessecary stage (nitrite, and then finally nitrate). Its best just to keep doing water changed to keep the ammonia low, but allow it to cycle as nessecary.



:)
-Diana

[hugebass]

Perhaps me adding ammo-lock regularly to detox is causing the process to really slow down. I'm just a little concerned that the levels dont seem to be going down.

Filter Sponge? Not sure what this is. I have two Emperor 400's (biowheels).

I did cycle the tank before I put in the africans...and I made the mistake of overfeeding without sniffing the rocks and this caused my problem. Lessons learned, not to repeat; nothing like failing forwards.

Thankfully I haven't lost any fish, but I'm starting to wonder if I'm really getting at root cause being that my levels just shoot up again after one day.

I'll just keep on the water changes without adding the ammo-lock for a week or so and see if that helps out. I will continue to condition the water for metals each change.

If anyone has any other helpful information, please do tell!

Best in success,

Reed

[khombre]

Just a question. What is BIOZYME? Is this bacteria to help jump start your cycle? If it is, then better check what type of bacteria it has. Some products contain the wrong type of bacteria for an aquarium. Try using BioSpira. It contains the correct type of bacteria for your tank.

The reason I'm saying this is that the wrong type of bacteria will just die in your tank. Massive bacteria die-offs will cause some ammonia or nitrite spike. Best of luck to you :D

[~*LuvMyKribs*~]

Filter Sponge? Not sure what this is. I have two Emperor 400's (biowheels).

Usually filters will contain a sponge which houses all (or at least most) of the beneficial bacteria for the tank. In your case its the bio-wheels. If you can get an established filter sponge from another tank and add it to your tank (either in the filter or over the intake) then this will help add that good bacteria, which will only need to populate. It vastly speeds up the cycling process.

:)
-Diana

[mostlycichlids]

Usually filters will contain a sponge which houses all (or at least most) of the beneficial bacteria for the tank. In your case its the bio-wheels. If you can get an established filter sponge from another tank and add it to your tank (either in the filter or over the intake) then this will help add that good bacteria, which will only need to populate. It vastly speeds up the cycling process.:)
-Diana

I do agree I use a filter from another established tank in the new tank this helps populate the bacteria in the new tank. I have done this with several tanks and have had no problems cycling new tanks in less than a week. If you are keeping lake malawis you dont have too many fish so i dont think that is the problem when it fully cycles you can keep up to 30 full grown africans from 5 different genuses in a 75 gallon. Make sure you have enough filteration to turn your volume over 10-12 times an hour. with the two emperor 400 bio wheels you are right on at 11 times/hour.

[hugebass]

Thanks everyone for helping me out here. I'll get the BioSpira today and start adding that. I almost decided this morning to sell my fish back to my LFS. I think I'll give this one more go around for a week and see if I can't get this ammonia to go away. I stopped adding the Ammo-Lock and will do massive water changes to keep things at a minimum. My fish seem to accept the water changes ok.

I'm debating to just start the whole cycle over again with a few fish, new rock, etc.

I'm also worried because my family is leaving town next week for a couple days and I cannot afford to have my tank sit that long without a water change, or so I think anyway. Thoughts?

[hugebass]

Just a question. What is BIOZYME? Is this bacteria to help jump start your cycle?

It is. Petco told me to buy it when I started the tank for the first time with Mollies.

[mostlycichlids]

you are almost there let us know if you need anything else.

[IceH2O]

you can keep up to 30 full grown africans from 5 different genuses in a 75 gallon. Make sure you have enough filteration to turn your volume over 10-12 times an hour. with the two emperor 400 bio wheels you are right on at 11 times/hour.

30 in a 75 gallon? Is this true? Sounds pretty crowded.

[DeRo316]

It would be overcrowded but that would be the point. I've run accross many cichlid keepers that keep A LOT of fish in their tank to prevent aggression issues. By overcrowding the tank you are making it harder for a fish to pick another one out of the crowd to fight. The person I bought most of my fish from had about 75 africans in a 150 gallon and it looked incredible. I havnt had any trouble trying to do the same thing in my 55, there may be some short chases but they get distracted by the other fish right away. As long as nitrates are checked regularly and frequent water changes are done it works out great.

[mostlycichlids]

It's like a huge friendly family 30 would be the most in a 75 gallon but you can sucessfully keep less. I keep nine mildly agressive species along with 5 synodontis catfish and they just absolutley thrive they swim back and fourth up and down like there is no tomorrow. 30 would be the absolute most but with mbuma it is a beautiful site. as long as you keep 2-3 females to 1 male.

55 gal
3 yellow Labs
2 Kenyi- Most agressive
1 snow white socofoli
2 Ice Blue Zebras
1 Ice blue Albino
5 synodontis- two different species

[Grundy]

Don't forget to test your tap water. You usually do not have ammonia in the water but I have heard of nitrates there...

[hugebass]

I tested my Tap water, all seems well there. I noticed the kiddy toys I had in the tank for my kids was peeling paint everywhere. Not sure if this was root cause, but I definitely didn't like it. I'm now a toy hater. Here is what I've done to combat this gastly mysterious ammmonia issue:

I decided to go all new tank/water based on recommendation from the LFS. I removed all the toys and just left the plastic plants. I bought about $100 worth of new rock fixtures that are much like the lake natural habitat. I change the tank floor from small rock to sand. I kept about 10 gallons of the original water and rinsed the filters in the tank water so as not to lose the beneficial bacteria and hopefully jump start the tank. All of the Africans are alive and well, eating and acting ok. Its been 1 week since the massive change. Here are my levels:

Nitrite: .25 PPM
Ammonia: 1.8 PPM
Nitrate: 8 PPM
PH: 8 PPM
Temp: 78 F

Again, this is 1 week, no water changes. I did add water to compensate for the evaporation. Do you think I should do a water change during the re-cycle and if so, how much of a change?

Thanks everyone for helping me get through this!

[Rbishop]

You are in a fishy cycle with those readings? I would recommend water changes.

Did you use bio-spira on this restart?

[hugebass]

You are in a fishy cycle with those readings? I would recommend water changes.

Did you use bio-spira on this restart?

I haven't yet, should I?

Thanks, Reed

[hugebass]

You are in a fishy cycle with those readings? I would recommend water changes.

Did you use bio-spira on this restart?

And what do you mean, fishy cycle? Please explain. Thanks.

[Rbishop]

The bio-spira has the correct bacteria in it for quick starting a FW tank. From reading the other thread and this one, it sounds as if something has happened to kill off your bacteria and you need to reestablish it.

Read this article on cycling a tank, you may get some insight...

http://aquariumboard.com/forums/articles/26-cycling-tank-fw.html

I'd do 50% water changes every 12 hours during this fishy cycle to keep ammonia and nitrites at zero. Even if the test kit reads zero, you will still have some bacteria and it will be building. It is called a fishy cycle because you have fish in the tank while the bacteria are being established. The high levels of ammonia and nitrite can be stressful on your fish, thus the water changes to keep them low.

In a fishless cycle, you do not have fish and you add ammonia to get the cycle going. Ammonia will peak, then drop off and the nitrites will peak and you will see nitrates form. This sequence is the establishment of your bacteria. The high levels at the peak are okay since there are not any fish there.

If you decide to use bio spira, follow the directions exactly. I'd also ditch the ammo lock and use Prime to dechlor your replenishment water.

[hugebass]

Do you think I should have replaced the bio-wheels in the two Emporer 400's? I left the old ones in there. What about replacing the filters? They are about 3.5wks old. I think the recommended is 4wks.

Thanks

[redtailfool]

Do not touch the bio wheel and the pad for now. Cleaning or replacing it will get rid of the beneficial bacteria that is badly needed to convert ammonia into a more inert form.

[hugebass]

I really appreciate everyone's help on this. I finally have this monster cycle under control. My ammonia level is prefect and I can tell the tank is cycling now. My fish seem very happy and best of all through all this I only lost one fish.

Thank you all again, I've attached a pic of my tank.

Reed