View Full Version : Jungle CO2 Fizz Factory, Hagen CO2 Natural Plant System, or Flourish Excel?
plah831
08-04-2006, 5:26 AM
I have a 10 gal densely planted tank and was wondering what everyone's opinions are on sources of carbon. It's too small for me to bother with a pressurized CO2 setup, and I don't think I'm handy enough to make a DIY kit (besides the DIY yeast fermentation mix). I have a big bottle of Excel that seems to work OK, but not as great as everyone else's planted tanks look. I'm thinking carbon dioxide does a better job than liquid carbon.
What are people's thoughts on either the Jungle CO2 Fizz Factory or the Hagen ladder system? I'm leaning toward the Hagen because it looks like it will work more consistently.
Also, how much of a pH reduction can I expect? My pH is currently 8.0 with a KH of 143 ppm or 8 degrees. Both those systems work continuously, but if I turn on the air pump at night, will this cause another change in pH?
Is there a way I should acclimate my fishies (2 dwarf puffers) to the change in pH, or just hook it up and let it run?
Oh, yeah, and I've got about 24 watts for 8 gallons of water (10 gal minus room for substrate) and the depth to the top of the substrate is 10 inches. All the plants are tall, so close to the light, the only foreground/short plants are low light like Anubias.
born2lovefish
08-04-2006, 7:41 AM
10 gallon is too small for pressurized co2. DIY yeast co2 is as simple as making easy mac! well almost.... I never follow a recipe. Just at a cup or so of sugar, put in a pinch or two of yeast, and do not fill the bottom with water clear to the top. That is it! Oh put a valve on the tubing with a check valve so it does not back siphon when it runs out. If you buy a cheap co2 set up, that is all it is, but you pay them a ton for it....Good luck man! Let me know if you have any questions!
thefirethief
08-04-2006, 8:34 AM
Ive got the Hagen system and it does make a difference. Plants really start to flourish after just a week or so of having it in. You know the equipment is sturdy and works, so you could always just make your own mix once you have used up what is supplied. Im not too fussed about paying 5 quid every couple of months for new stuff though.
Do you ussually turn the air pump off at night? With that size of aquarium this might be a bad idea with a CO2 system at work as the carbon dioxide to oxygen ratio might get out of control and start sending fish one foot under.
buy a diffusor and make a DIY chamber instead of buying the Hagen one. yeast works erally well for a small tank like a 10 and you won't regret it.
In my 20 gallon i use a hagen system with the occasional dosage of Excel and it's been great! I'm growing things in a 15 watt tank that people said would be impossible.
plah831
08-05-2006, 12:09 AM
Do you ussually turn the air pump off at night? With that size of aquarium this might be a bad idea with a CO2 system at work as the carbon dioxide to oxygen ratio might get out of control and start sending fish one foot under.
i will definitely turn on the air at night, especially since either of those two delivery systems cannot be shut off at any certain time (have to run until the yeast mixture or tab runs out).
what are people's thoughts on the pH change i shoud expect?
Needeles
08-05-2006, 12:35 AM
Well I myself have a DIY CO2 system and I have really hard water, 300ppm and high pH, 8.2 right from the tap. I used this in system with my live plants and the tank has dropped to a steady 7.2 and the hardness has dropped to about 150ppm. This is just to give you an idea of what it has done for me. It also made a huge difference in the plant growth. I change my bottle about once a month and it does prety good.
plah831
08-05-2006, 12:50 AM
thanks, Needeles! do you think the change in pH is stressful for fishes?
i have plenty of hardness, too, altho not as much as you. is that GH or KH that changed that much? probly GH, huh? since it's probably the carbonate part that gets "used up" or rather converted by CO2.
ScorpioMonkey
08-09-2006, 11:22 AM
I had the same question (about those 3 ways to add CO2), and was also leaning toward the Hagan system. According to this (http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=8981&N=2004+113779) it is only rated up to 20 gallons.... what would happen if I put it in a 29 gallon... would it still work, just not as well?
You can add two or just dose excel every day with the DIY ... >.>;
I get a good steady 20ppm with my 20 gallon but I have surface aggitation from my hob aquaclear ... i bet i could get it higher if i broke out a sponge but theres no need because im happy with where things are.
Needeles
08-10-2006, 2:42 AM
thanks, Needeles! do you think the change in pH is stressful for fishes?
As long as the change is slow the fish will be fine. When you first add the CO2 system I would say to test the water every few hours to make sure there is not to much of a drop. They say to only drop about 0.5 pH in a 24 hour period but I have found that alittle more didn't seem to hurt my fish.
plah831
08-10-2006, 2:46 AM
OK, will do! The 7.2 pH is exactly what the chart on aquabotanic (?) predicted, based on an original pH of 8.0 and a good CO2 concentration of 12-15 ppm. I also have the same GH as you, 300 ppm, and 143 ppm KH. I guess 0.8 change is probably not enough to worry about then. To be safe, maybe I'll start by mixing a little less DIY fermentation mix and err on the side of caution, eh?
Thanks everyone!
plah831
08-10-2006, 2:50 AM
What about the change in pH between day (CO2 injection) and night (air pump on)? Will a possible fluctuation from 8.0 to 7.2, back to 8.0 in a 24 hour period be too much?
If 10 gal seems too small to moderate pH fluctuation, I may very well resign myself to buying a big bottle of Excel. It just seems that people get such nicer results with CO2 gas.
Needeles
08-10-2006, 3:10 AM
What about the change in pH between day (CO2 injection) and night (air pump on)? Will a possible fluctuation from 8.0 to 7.2, back to 8.0 in a 24 hour period be too much?
Just let the CO2 run all the time. Then at night turn on the air pump and in the morning turn off the air pump. This will keep the levels from moving around to much. This is how I do it and it works pretty good. And yes the jumping back and forth all the time will stress the fish out so just do as I stated above and it should work nicely for you.
plah831
08-10-2006, 3:15 AM
OK, thanks again! With a fermentation system (instead of pressurized) I don't think I have the option of turning it off :D
Needeles
08-10-2006, 3:16 AM
Nope not really but some people do put a valve on it to close it up. This tends to be a bad idea as the container will end up blowing up at some point.
cyborob
08-10-2006, 11:48 AM
Plah831, I read on Tom Barr's forum awhile back that ph swing is not that big of a deal that everyone makes it out to be. Like in some lakes the ph swings between 2-4 units everday.
:)
plah831
08-10-2006, 3:59 PM
some people do put a valve on it to close it up. This tends to be a bad idea as the container will end up blowing up at some point.
LOL :D I would end up with sticky yeast and sugar solution everywhere!
Thanks, cyborob. That does make me feel better.
OK, DIY CO2 it is then! My plants are going to be happy finally...