View Full Version : buying a new filter ! opinions please !
ok.....so me and Jinks are buying a new filter for a 75 gallon tank. We're planning on putting in a dozen or so small "mixed africans" because they're on sale for 2 bucks at Big Al's. Yes, we're not being very picky!
The tank has black sand for substrate, if that matters,
but anyways, it boils down to this:
Rena Filstar xp3 or xp2
or
Fluval 304 or 404
Which one should be go for!!?? pro's / con's ??
(We hear the Eheim's are great, but unfortunately, not within our budget. )
NJ Devils Fan
03-21-2003, 4:39 PM
1 filter won't be enough. Go with 2 Filstar xP3s. Higher flow rate then fluval and more media space.
that sounds crazy to me.!! :)
on my 90 gal I have a fluval 303 and have for years.......it has been great; no complaints, even though it's technically considered to small.
the filstar xp3 is supposed to be good for 125 gallons......so why would I need 2 on a 75 gallon tank?? It's not in our budget!! that would cost us 400 dollars. Shouldn't an xp2 , good for 70 gallons, be just sufficient? I do weekly water changes, and could also have an aquaclear 150 or 2 in combo with the xp2. ??
famman
03-21-2003, 4:54 PM
Eheims are not expensive. A classic 2213 can be gotten for $50 and will handle a lightly stocked 55gal.
good luck
:)
Slappy*McFish
03-21-2003, 4:55 PM
Depends on your total fish load and how much and often you change the water...as long as you are doing around 35% water changes weekly(I do 50% on my 55), then 1 filter will be fine...I agree on the filstar being your best bet..**** good filter.
NJ Devils Fan
03-21-2003, 4:58 PM
Big Al's online has the XP3s for $95 each. When it says on the filter box what size tank the filter is recommend for, don't pay attention to it. Its not remotely crazy at all to have 2 large canisters on a 75g tank. In fact, it's most desirable. You are aiming for a high turnover rate, somewhere around 8x-12x. 2 xP3s would provide that with a 365 ghp flow rate each. With a tank that large, you need to get 2 filters to adequately filter the water, just like you should get 2 heaters to heat the water efficently, unless you are very lightly stocking the tank. Big tanks coust big bucks to maintain. If this is still not within your budget, go with either 2 Aqua Clear 500 or 2 Emperor 400 power filters, both around $35 each at Big Al's online.
125gJoe
03-21-2003, 5:00 PM
The Filstar XP-2 is marginal for your tank size. Get the XP-3.....
Extra filtration is a good thing! I have an 80 gallon and have 2 canisters filtering it.
"Eheims are not expensive. A classic 2213 can be gotten for $50 and will handle a lightly stocked 55gal."
FIFTY BUCKS?!?!?! on big al's online (canada) they are 169.99!! are you talkin' used?? or do you know a cheaper place??
Slappy---thinking of getting a dozen small african cichlids....counting on a couple not making it........so let's say 10 eventually fully-grown africans....still think one filter, w/big weekly water changes, is ok??
NJ Devil---
the thing is, I'm in Canada and the price difference on filters/heaters/everything is HUGE.....the xp3 is 259.99 at big al's here.......not 95......and an aquaclear 500 is not 35.......it's 75.....
I don't mean that it's a BAD thing to have multiple expensive filters on a large tank.....not at all......I just can't afford it now....
another thing....I was told to "ignore the information on the boxes" as well.....but in the opposite direction.....I was told that if they say "good for 100 gallons" then it would probably be just fine for 80, for example. ?
Slappy*McFish
03-21-2003, 5:09 PM
I agree, overfiltration is a "good" thing but my answer is still yes, with 35-50% weekly water changes, 1 canister filter on a 75 is fine. Especially if the wallet is screaming at you;)...if you are still worried, then by all means go ahead and throw one of those AC filters on the back...and I would do so anyway....just make sure it will fit on the tank's rim..some of the smaller ACs will not fit on larger tanks...I'm pretty sure an AC 300 would though.
NJ Devils Fan
03-21-2003, 5:13 PM
No. Take an AC 500 for example. On the box, it's rated for tanks up to 150 gallons. Thats absurd. For that big of a tank, I would get 3 AC 500s. After some time, you will know what size filters are for what size tanks.
NJ --well I have been doing this for some time, and I THOUGHT I had some idea of what filters were sufficient for whatever tanks.
I guess I don't though. So are you saying that my fluval on my other tank isn't good enough?? even though the water is crystal clear, the fish look beautiful, yada yada????
NJ Devils Fan
03-21-2003, 5:28 PM
You obviously take very good care of the tank and clean it often like every fish keeper should.
hmm. I think maybe you are getting a LITTLE carried away NJ fan. heh. If you want to spend more money than you need to on your tank thats fine! but like bee said we arent looking to spend an arm and a leg for something we probably dont need! Even the guy trying to SELL us this crap wasnt trying to sell as much as you :)
goldfish freak
03-21-2003, 5:40 PM
You will most likely be fine with a single Filstar XP3 on your 75 gallon, but then again I don't know anything about african chiclids so this may well not be enough. I am simply drawing general conclusions. NJ Devils Fan is simply a fan of overfiltering his tanks, there is nothing wrong with that. It provides some insurance and gives you some leeway. There are several different ways to maintain a healthy aquarium.
FWIW, my 75 w/mbuna had an Eheim 2217, a W/D, RFUG, and two internal Eheims.
I am not a big fan of overfiltration, but African cichlid tanks (Malawi, Tanganyika) are another story. Because of the high pH, the fish are extra sensitive to ammonia. If I'm not mistaken, starting at around pH 8.0, ammonia takes the more toxic form, NH3. At lower pH values ammonia takes the less toxic form, NH4+. Thus higher pH tanks such as for many African cichlids would probably benefit from overfiltration (yes I said it :rolleyes: ).
With my 20 gallon Lake Tanganyika tank I felt I was taking minimal risks by lightly stocking it (4 ocellated shelldwellers and 2 guppies) and using a Penguin Biowheel 170, giving a turnover rate of 170 gph or 8x tank turnover per hour.
BTW, am I just missing it where BigAl's sells fish online? Or do they sell fish only to Canada not to the States?
famman, where did you find an Eheim 2213 for $50?? I just bought mine from BigAl's and used their low price guarantee to bring the cost down to $64.55 US.
NJ Devils Fan
03-21-2003, 9:22 PM
I'm not getting carried away, I'm giving my opinion because it was asked.
famman
03-21-2003, 9:27 PM
Heady,
I got 2 2213 classics from ebay for about $50 each.
good luck
:)
JSchmidt
03-21-2003, 9:47 PM
Originally posted by Heady
famman, where did you find an Eheim 2213 for $50?? I just bought mine from BigAl's and used their low price guarantee to bring the cost down to $64.55 US.
That's not bad, Heady! You drive a hard bargain! That Pet Place has them listed at about $75!
Back to the topic of the thread...
SBee, my normal proclivity is to overfilter. I have an overstocked 75 that has an Emperor 400, a prefiltered Eheim 2028 (with dummy canister filled with ceramic noodles on the outlet), and a prefiltered HOT Magnum with biowheel. That tank has a lot more than a dozen fish, though...
I wouldn't run any larger tank with only a single filter. If that filter cashes out, you're in trouble. (That always happens when you're on vacation, too!) Small mbuna become large mbuna pretty quickly, and even when small, they're much messier than most other fish.
In a tank like the one you describe, I'd want to separate mechanical and biological filtration. I'd get a canister (I like Eheims) and load it with some non-clogging, permanent media like bioballs or, even better, ceramic noodles like Ehfimech. I'd prefilter it with a sponge to help keep crud out of the can. I'd the get an easy-to-clean mechanical filter. I prefer HOT Magnums with a sponge prefilter; internal canisters, esp. Eheims, are nice, too. (RTR has a very good article on this at http://www.tomgriffin.com/aquamag/cannister.html.)
Cichlids are much messier than most other fish, so the slight extra expense of a second, mech-only filter is truly worth it.
You can go nuts and get more filters (it works for me!), but two should be enough for a dozen mbuna in a 75.
HTH,
Jim
thanks for all the replies. I didn't expect this to become a debate about overfiltration....! In my first post I said I was looking for an opinion on which ONE filter I should get....and have since repeatedly posted my budget restrictions!!!!
Nevertheless, appreciate the info. I think we've decided to go with one filstar xp3, and I'll leave one of my ac 150's running, and one of my powerheads as well. My next question is.....how the heck do you guys manage to get your filters so cheap!!
Like I've said, the xp3 is 259.99 CAD at Big Al's. At Petsmart, it goes for 200 even. So I know I can get that at Big Al's too, minus 5%. Still though, even with exchange, it seems like you guys still have cheaper filters. Is there anywhere else I can look????
oh, and Heady---nope I don't think Big Al's sells fish online at all...not in Canada either.....
Originally posted by Heady
BTW, am I just missing it where BigAl's sells fish online? Or do they sell fish only to Canada not to the States?
They only sell fish out of their retail outlets across Canada.
Heady
03-21-2003, 11:13 PM
Oh, OK. I haven't seen any outlets here in the US.
SBee, before you buy from your local Petsmart, you might try Petsmart.com. They often have items MUCH cheaper than in-store. Also you might try:
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/sub.cfm?siteid=6&pcatid=3579
Some of their items are much cheaper than the lfs but not as cheap as US BigAl's.
Once you decide exactly what filter you want, do a search for it on the net. BigAl's will beat any competing online price by 5%.
Thanks Heady.
I wasn't planning on buying anything from petsmart anyways because I like to rack up my points on my Big Al's VIP card!! :) I sure found it surprising though that there was a 60 dollar difference in price between the two stores. That's just insane.
I've done some online searches as well....thanks for the tip...
I'm pretty sure though that Big Al's here (we go to the actual locations, rather than order online) will only do their 5% thingy with Canadian list prices.....just my guess.....
oh---and another question.......I know that Fluval's come with filter media...........and on one site it said that Filstar's DID too....but I thought I heard somewhere else that they DIDN'T. Anyone know for certain?
125gJoe
03-22-2003, 2:13 AM
This is the only 'sanely' priced canister for the $$ ! Seriously. XP-3.....
NJ Devils Fan
03-22-2003, 8:17 AM
Yea, all filters come with media when you buy them, just not a lot of it.
just bought the xp3!! got it for 190........
going to set 'er up now......yeeeeeeehaw!!!
the guy at Big Al's nearly crapped himself when we told him that Petsmart had the filter for 60 dollars cheaper :)