Very Bad Ich - Very Confused Aquarist -- Help!!!

[rightnow]

Everytime I ask an LFS owner for help they keep giving me different opinions and dis-credit others theories. I have a tank with fish, live rock, and inverts. I know this creates a medicine choosing problem. I have tried reef safe med's with no effect. the ick is getting very very bad and will be fatal soon.

I was thinking this would work: take out all live rock and inverts to 10g. hospital tank.(My Hospital Tank is not well established and too small to fit all my fish in.) I will then treat main tank with Buffered Active Copper. I will use a certain brand of filter that says it can remove the copper and there is also another item that says it can 100% remove copper. then I will put the inverts and live rock back after 2-3 weeks. Do you guys think this will work?

What is good and bad about this method? What methods have you succedded with in a case like mine? Any help appreciated!

[gomrjoe]

Hey there,

I would not recommend those commercial filter media that say they remove the copper, from everything I have read, and from one buddy of mine that tried one on his 55 gal. they don't work, they never get all of the copper; and if there is any traceable copper in the system your corals and inverts will be affected, no doubt.

If you are serious about keeping inverts, you should never treat your main tank. The best thing to do is to get all fish out of the main tank and into a QT or hospital tank where you can treat. You will need to leave the main tank clear of all fish for 30 days, that will allow the parasites to complete their life cycle and die off. You can keep some shrimp and hermits in there that will help keep the beneficial bateria happy.

If your hospital tank is insufficient for housing all of your fish, do you have a trusted friend with a hospital tank? Or I have even read about people using a cooler to hold the more durable fish in instead of a QT. I have never tried it, but in theory it should work. All you would need is an airstone, something for them to hide in, and continuous water changes, oh, and a light source, enough for the fish to be able to tell day from night.

Hopefully some other people might have some other ideas, but this one might help you.

------------------------------------

100 gal tank, 3.8 wpg pc lighting
35 gal wet/dry/sump
Protein Skimmer
UV Sterilizer
2-3 dsb
mated pair perc clowns
1 yellow tang
1 pac blue tang
1 coral beauty
1 diamond watchman goby
3 reef chromis
3 spotted cardinal fish
current cleanup crew: 15 turbos, 35 blue leg hermits
Inverts: star polyp, yellow colony polyp, bubble coral, pulsing xenia
purple tip haitain anemone

[fsa]

rightnow, give us some info on your tank, such as size, #of fish, kind of fish, how long has it been set up, etc.? Do you know what has caused the ich? Is it on all of the fish?

I would try to make the tank as stress free right now as possible. Keep lights turned off in the tank. Keep traffic/people away from the tank. Maybe a good sized water change or several small ones depending on your water parameters.

Hope it gets better, Frank

[BadRoma1]

o.k. here is what worked for me. number one, any med that works for ich is a med that will kill stuff like your shrimp because shrimp is made of the same material. i hate copper and don't recomend to use it to anyone. u will need years to get it out of your system or never. invert safe ich med is a b.s. it can't possibly work. when u treat for ich u must treat fish only, nothing else should be in the same tank with any ich med or it will die. Quinsulex from Aquatronics is the med that worked for me with no secondary infections. i never used quick cure, so i have no comments on that. don't forget to double dose for marine and increase oxigen during use. just read instructions carefuly. the resolts were visible in two days.

[rightnow]

Thanks for your help. After some reading and your opinions I have decided NOT to treat display with Copper. Why risk it, I think invert's are a neccesity for me. This is what I have thought about doing now:

I was think about trying Hypo-Salinity. I have two 10 gallon tanks that I can either put the fish in or put the Live Rock and Invert's in. Which way woul be better? Also if I use water from my display tank to fill up my QT tank can I consider that tank "Cycled"? Thanks Again for all the help

Oh yeah I have a Hippo Tang, SailFin Tang, Koran Angel and Lemon-peel Angel, in a 55 gallon tank. All fish are small in size ( I know I will need a bigger tank soon) The tank is only 3 months old and ALL the fish have a very very bad case. I have tried No Ich, Ich Attack, Clout and Fresh water Dips and nothing has worked. I really feel bad about what is happening and I appreciate all help. Thanks

[gomrjoe]

If you have two 10 gallon tanks, that can work for now, not ideal, but your tangs will surely meet their demise if the ich is as bad as you say it is. Tangs are very susceptible to parasites and disease, once they get it, you have to act quick and decisively. Split up the tangs and angels, this will help with overcrowding.

You can use a little bit of sand and some water from your main tank to startup the two 10 gallon tanks. Remember that in terms of cycling for a temporary tank it is not as important, as long as you are doing continual water changes. The water changes should be at least 25% every two days while in QT, with that bioload, I would try do more, 50% perhaps. This will prevent amonia and nitrite spikes. Treat the QT with a good ich med, something with copper and formalin in it, just read the label, I know RidIch has it, I am sure others do to. Formalin helps to get the ich off the fish itself a lot easier. The copper will kill the free floating parasites. Keep a good source of oxygen in the tank, and keep the salinity higher 1.027 - 1.029.

Do this for a period of 30 days. Do not over treat or you will stress the fish out more than they already will be by being in confined quarters.

After 30 days, your main tank should have completed its cycle, and the parasites should be dead, you can put your fish back in. Make sure not to transplant any of the sand or water from the QT back into your main tank, VERY IMPORTANT!

Good luck.

[Charlie-NY]

Here is my take after exhaustive reading on the subject:

Remove all fish from the display tank and leave in any inverts. Inverts can not host ich. The ich parasites drops into the substrate where reproduction takes place. One ich parasite will hatch 1,000's of minute ich parasites that are too small to be seen. After 28 days the newborn parasites will swim up and need to attach to living fish tissue or die. This is why you must leave the tank fishless for more than 30 days. Most experts seem to recommend 6-8 weeks to be certain that the cycle has been broken.

Infected fish really must be put into QT. There you can safely treat them. I have tried hypo treatment without success. My lfs said 1 week would do it but it didn't work for me and I think 1 month is more like it. The lfs also said "Quick Cure" would kill the ich in 2-3 days. I did a 3 day treatment TWICE without success. The guys who have been successful almost always treat with copper. If you use a copper treatment you will need a copper test kit. There is a narrow window between ineffective concentrations and deadly concentrations. Without a copper test kit you can only hope that you are dosing correctly. You also need to MAINTAIN the proper concentration of copper throughout the treatment. Copper attaches to glass, rubber, plastic and everything else at the molecular level and can never be removed, that is why it should never be put into your display tank.

It sucks to leave your display tank fishless for 6-8 weeks but that is what I'm doing right now. I will NEVER introduce another fish into my tank that has not been in my personal QT tank for 3-4 weeks first. I've read this many times but you'll avoid this precaution right up until you get stung good. I got stung.

Hope this helps.

[rightnow]

Thanks Everyone for the help. I have put fish in QT and dosing with copper. I lost a Fish the other day and it is depressing. I cant help to think If I didnt get her maybe she would still be alive. I jumped into this too soon and have learned that you need to be very very patient if not nothing but for the health of these beautiful fish. I hope I can save the others that I have grown attached to. Thanks Again
I will let you guys know what happens.

[RothChyld]

I would also buy Kent Marine Garlic supplement and start using that in their food immediately. This cannot hurt at all. People on this forum have reported that feeding garlic has cured their fish of ich. I have fed my fish garlic for 7 years and I have never had a fish with ich. *Not saying this is 100% fix but you lose nothing but about 10 bucks.*

[gomrjoe]

Roth is right, any food that has garlic in it, or a garlic suppliment (the Kent marine product he is refering to is very good), is highly recommended. I have the TheraA+ pellets that have garlic in them, I feed my critters with that 3 times a week. I have a blue tang that pops up with ich every once in a while, but just as quickly as he gets it, it is gone. The last time he got it bad was about 2 months ago, in fact I posted here about it. I dosed extra garlic pellets for 7 days straight, and he has actually not gotten it since.

At least in the case of your tangs, use the garlic suppliment and an algae preperation of some kind, like the Spirulina flake food. Tangs need algae in their diet to keep their color and boost their immune system. I have also noticed that it keeps them happier, ie. less aggressive. But the garlic is just as important.

Good luck.

[BadRoma1]

i can't believe u went with copper and not what i recomended. copper also is very slow working toxin, so most fish will not make it

[rightnow]

BadRoma, I did take your advice and did NOT use Copper in my Display tank. It was getting very bad and since I have used the Copper the fish are getting better and better. i also added a cleaer wrasse to the QT and have been feeding Garlic. I just do NOT trust any supposed reef safe products, Thanks

[BadRoma1]

o.k. i'm glad that it's working. but i recomended different med for your QT. but it's working without killing the fish that means that your fish was in very good shape before the problem with ich

[rightnow]

Does anyone knowa better test kit for Copper? The kit I have is so vauge and it say the tank should read .5 but .6 is too much. How am I supposed to know the difference since the test kit is non exact? Also I know I am going to have to do allot of water changes so I will have to keep adding Copper and pretty much guessing how much to put back in. Let me know if there is anything I can do, Thanks