What do you think of these fish

[NGerdes]

I have a 40 gal. that I'm setting up. I've been on here a couple of times asking about fish and other stuff. Now I'm back for more advice and questions. Let's just say I'm using and possibly abusing this board.

I'm going with a white sand and a planted aquarium with a 2-3 species of crypt, a Anubias Barteri and a Tenellus for a foreground plant. Along with Dritwood with Java Moss attached, a red lava rock decor, a red slate cave, plus one or two smaller flower pots for additional hiding. My lighting should be around 2.5 Watt/Gal. Was leaning toward a DIY CO2, but not sure how effecive they are, or whether I needed a CO2 injector. Will I need a bubble counter with a DIY, and is there a way to do that yourselft too? And just for information, I will be fishless cycling which I will start sometime this week.

How about his for a fish set up:
2-3 Angels
2 Blue rams
1 Red Tail Shark
6+ Rasbora
3+ Bandit cory
1 Pleco (not sure what kind)

I'm open to anything more of something, less of something, take one, out add something else, or a combination of all.

[Slappy*McFish]

Looks good to me..nice fish selection(get a bristlenose pleco)...I'm guessing the redtail fox is a redtail shark?..if so, be advised...they can be quarrelsome...as far as CO2 is concerned, I think DIY would be fine with that tank size, light level, and types of plants you plan on keeping. Though, if you can afford the initial cost of a pressurized system, you may find it a better alternative. Especially if you ever increase your light levels to 3wpg+, and if you ever decide to go with more demanding, high light plants.

[NGerdes]

Yeah, sorry about that... I did mean a red tail shark. I figure with plenty of planing and the rocks and pots providing hiding places, the shark won't get too bad. Any other suggestions... Is this set up too much or could I add a few more to it. Maybe some chain Loaches or something?

[ChilDawg]

Watch those Cories if you want to keep the Redtail. They don't take too kindly to other fish on the bottom of the tank, so your Cories might be at risk.

Your angels and rams might pick on their conspecifics, and there may not be enough of each to mimimize intraspecific aggression. I don't know enough about their temperaments, so they may be better in small groups than many other so-labelled "aggressive" fish.

For the 40, you might want to think Bristlenose. I generally recommend Otos, but they are very likely to be mauled by Angels or the Redtail. Bristlenoses are oft-recommended for their work in cleaning up algae, and would be a good substitute for a group of Otos.

[NGerdes]

Well then, Bristlenose it is. How about some kind of loach instead of the corys. They would be able to handle themselves a little better than the corys with the Red Tail Shark. How about a Ruby shark? Are those a little less aggresive than the RTS?

And from my reasearch, the Rams should be kept in pairs and if so are usually peaceful, but I am no means the expert here, Like I said, I'm open to suggestions, advice, criticism, whatever comes...

[OrionGirl]

Any of the shark minnows wil be aggressive, but more so to fish that share their space and look similar. I haven't had any problems with my rainbow shark and my cories, but the shark spends a lot of time chasing the algae eater, who shares the same body shape.

Angels can be problems if not in pairs. The odd fish out will often be treated harshly, so be prepared to remove one and return it. Remember, rams and angels are both cichlids, so can have nasty tempers.

I agree--bristlenose are great fish for this size tank.

[NGerdes]

OK, so how about:
4 Angels
2 Rams
1 Bristlenose
1 RTS
3 Cories
6+ Rasbora

Does that work???

At my LFS this weekend, they had a fish that looked like some sort of a chain loach, they called it a DOJO. It had the snake like body and very small whisker like features on his face and had a plain tan type of a body color... I can't find DOJO anywhere in the species profiles, any idea other names for this fish? I really like that way they looked and was interested, but could do any research on them because of the name. I would maybe substitute these for the cories.

[ChilDawg]

Dojo Eel is the same as the weather loach: Misgurnus anguillicaudatus or M. fossilis. The first of those two species may be found in AC's species profiles, while the other one is much less available in the U.S. I would be willing to bet that the former is the one which your pet shop is selling.

[NGerdes]

I checked it out and it was the weather loach. I don't think I would want that. My biggest problem is that I live out in the middle of no where, and my LFS is very limited in it's fish selection. I would be lucky to find the Rams there. So my selection could change. My only other option is an hour drive to a Petsmart. Will a fish be able to survive that long of a travel in one of those little bags?

[gidget21]

it would be better to invest in 2 RTS because of the fact when shopping for fish its best to get fish in pairs especially the more aggressive ones. they will occupy eachothers time better so they will pick less on your other fish.

[gidget21]

oh and the fish should live a good 3 hours in the bags. if its cold keep your car warm and they should be fine.

[OrionGirl]

I disagree with the advice to get a pair of RTS. If you purchase a pair, eventually one will probably be killed off. With just one, the shark will probably pick a territory to defend, and leave the other fish alone as long as they stay out of it's turf. Another shark will be targetted with abuse no matter where it tries to hide. In a large tank, a pair might work, but not in a smaller one.

[ChilDawg]

OG is right. The footprint of your 40 would not be enough for two RTBS to stay content, and some killing would happen--possibly even to some innocent bystanders who just happened to be near the RTBS fight.

As for the survival period in the bags, it depends. Some of the more sensitive fish may not make it that long in bags, but some of the hardier ones will seemingly thrive. I put mine in a cooler when I transport them back and forth, and that seems to help--I have even had "Methuselah", my Oto, live through two car trips that way. Warmth IS key, but so is clean water, and I am honestly not sure how clean the water from a PetSmart could possibly be and I am thusly not sure if your fish would survive that long in that water.

[OrionGirl]

I trick I learned to help deal with dirty source water, or a fish that will produce lots of waste: Add a small nylon baggie of ammo-lock. While not as efective when just sitting in the water instead of within in a steady water flow, it will help deal with ammonia in fish during transport. Used a baggie of ammo-lock when driving 1500 miles with a LARGE african lung fish in a samll box--only about 5 gallons of water. The water wasn't pure, but it wasn't foul either. For a short trip, let the LFS know you'll be driving so they can pack appropriately. Make the LFS your VERY last stop, and then maintain an even temperature. I use coolers year round--not only will they help with temp, but they prevent leaks from soaking your car, and can be used to hold the fish in case a bag breaks. I've brought sensitive SW fish up from Denver in a blizzard (making a 2 hour trip drag into 3.5 hours--scary!) and not lost anything.

[NGerdes]

Thanks. I don't think that it will hurt to try. The weather outside right now is perfect for this kind of thing in Illinois. The temp is around the 60-70 degree mark so I will be able to regulate the temp with little effort. And I will bring along a cooler also, just to be safe. And because I will probably get more than one fish, I will make sure that the LFS packs them one to a bag and request the larger bags to hold more water and more air. I think that should work. Thanks a lot. I think that I'm set. I appreciate all the help. The flourite, gravel will be arriving Thursday, so I will be laying that this week, picking up the filter and plants and light this weekend. And hopefully the fish next weekend (if everything goes well:confused: ). I will almost bet that I will be back here a couple of times during this process with some questions. If anyone has any more advice, I'm still open.

[OrionGirl]

Ummm...You might want to check out fishless cycling, and learn about the nitrogen cycle. None of the fish you want will be able to survive the cycling process well.

http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/ has some great advice, and there are several sticky threads on the topic over in FW Newbies.

[NGerdes]

I planned on the fishless cycling, I will start as soon as I add the substrate on Thursday or friday, and will temporarily add some gravel from an established 10 gal (up for 1yr 2mo) to jump start the process. Then will add the plants about 2-4 days later which will help with Nitrates/Nitrates. I will track the water progress, and was HOPING to be ready for fish by next weekend, which would be about 10 days after I initially start. I know that it might take longer and I wouldn't add the fish until it's ready. That's what I meant by "If everything goes well."

[OrionGirl]

Kay, just wanted to make sure. Don't plan on the cycle being done in 10 days. I'd plan for more along the lines of 3-4 weeks, and even that's being optimistic!

:)

[NGerdes]

Seriously??? I cycled my 10 gal with fish (It was my first and I was stupid) and it cycled quicker than that. At least the largest spikes. I thought that with the fishless cycling plus that good amount of plants I would have, I was thinking around 2 weeks, 3 tops....

[OrionGirl]

It really depends. If you have established media to use and introduce the bacteria, it can happen quickly. If you use enough established media and plants, and stock slowly, you'll never have big spikes. It's never an gauranteed timeline, since little differences can have a big impact. The important thing is having ammonia/nitrites test 0.

[NGerdes]

I understand that. Like I said, I wouldn't do that to the fish. I learned the hard way the first time. Thanks for the concern though. I wish I would have come in here before I set up my first tank....

[NGerdes]

One more thing real quick. Is there any difference between a red tail shark and a rainbow shark as far as agressiveness? Is one worse than the other? If one is less, I would go with that one instead....

[OrionGirl]

Red tails tend to be more aggressive, IME. My last one was an absolute bugger--he chased anyone and everyone, once he matured. I have a 2 year old rainbow right now, and he only is nasty to the algae eater (same body shape). Everyone else in the tank is ignored. If you like the look of both fishes, I would go with the rainbow instead. Personally, I like to coloration on my rainbow much better--such striking, subtle colors!

[NGerdes]

If I get a Bristlenose pleco, the rainbow wouldn't bother him too much would he? Not to a dangerous point???

[OrionGirl]

I have 4 bristlenoses in with the rainbow, and he completely ignores them. Keep in mind that bristle nose have a very nice set of defenses--they have basically a pair of razors tucked into pockets on the sides of their heads. My 5 inch male has 1/2 razors. I've seen him thrash those bad boys around (he doesn't like sharing space with the chocolate pleco), and he means business. He could do some serious damage to the rainbow if he wanted. The rainbow knows this, and avoids a confrontation. The rainbow doesn't harrass the smaller bristlenose either--and they range from 1 inch up to about 2 1/2 inches.

[Slappy*McFish]

My redtail shark doesn't bother my bristlenose at all. The only fish that he goes after are my serpae tatras, chinese algae eater, and sometimes(but half heartedly) my "siamese" algae eaters, otos, and corys. Corys are armored tanks; a redtail isnt going to bother them too much...usually mostly during feeding time...they are left alone the majority of the time. Take a look at my tank specs page for a list of all the fish I keep with my redtail in my 55. BTW, my redtail is fully mature at around 4".

[Slappy*McFish]

oh yeah, I forgot to add...I would be the most concerned about your rasboras with the shark than any other fish. My shark absolutely hates my serpae tetras, or any other "schooling" fish for that matter..He killed off a school of lemon tetras about a year ago.

[NGerdes]

We'll just have to see I guess... When I get him, he will be a younger shark, so hopefully that deal with not bothering the tank mates they grow up with might apply. I'm expecting that there will be some confrontation right away, to estabish territory and what not, but hopefully it will fade away. We'll see. Like I said before, I will be on here a lot during the whole set up process asking questions. Thanks to everyone for the help....

[thalassic park]

Hi,
To help with the fishless cycling I add a small amount of fish food each day, this allows the bacteria to feed thus establishing themselves faster.