11 days, cycling complete?

[andsoitgoes]

Hi all,

I'm a n00b here (obviously!) and I've just started to set up a 46 gallon bowfront that I got my wife for our anniversary (although some days I wonder if I got it more for me!! :))

I began with a very small gravel substrate and did all the water treatments, here are some specifics on the tank itself:

- Eheim Classic 2213 w/ the bio filters
- Stealth 200w heater
- 2 pieces small driftwood w/ various plants
- 1 piece of lg/xlg ironwood w/ various plants
- 1 banana plant, and about 4 other misc plants (I know, I need a picture!)
- T5 36" bulb + stock lamp that came with the tank
- Glass top replacing stock hood

I've had some odd ups and downs with this tank. We started it up on the 19th and got everything hooked up and running - within a few days we made the decision to do a fish cycle and picked up some bio support stuff that, I know, is useless as well as some hardy fish.

Well, all 10 - 12 of the hearty fish kicked it within about 2 - 3 hours of introducing them to the tank, and I was a little shocked. I hadn't done any real testing at that time, so I had no idea what any levels were at.

Fast forward a few days, I take the water in to get it checked out, buy a test kit and go from there. Well at this stage the tests come back that everything is low, nh3 is a little high and there were some things going on with the nitrites. This was at a general pet store, I made the executive decision they didn't know anything and did my own tests. Those came back okay - NH3, NO2 all low, and I decided to try a few other fish from ANOTHER pet store. This was all on Sunday/Monday of last week (20th/21st)

At this time, we had about 5 Neon Tetras and 4 Harlequin Rasboras - they lived through the day and night - and I had high hopes! My wife was horribly excited by the middle of the week and she simply could not wait to grab some more fish. I was hesitant because of the status of the tank, and what I figured it'd do for cycling - but she picked up some fancy guppies, congo tetras, loaches and a pleco. So now our tank was way overstocked for the age, and I was planning on being 120% dilligent in keeping on top with water tests. I added some more driftood and some water from well-established tanks at SPECIALTY LFS that focus on fish and fish care.

I kept an eye on numbers, NH3 rose quite a bit and I did a water change of about 20 - 30% and the NH3 dropped, all fish are okay (there's a tangent here - one of the pieces of driftwood I bought had a tire track eel in it - Overnight I lost 3 neon tetras and 2 rasboras! I took that guy back VERY QUICKLY!! :)) - but a few neons had kicked the bucket earlier that week, not the ones eaten by Mr. Tire.

That was on Saturday - and I've put in a live NH3 test in the tank, and it's stayed in the safe/nil range the entire time. Today, I did tests and well:

- Nitrites: .3mg/l
- Nitrates: 12.5mg/l
- CO2: 6ppm (I need some help with this, I want healthy plants!)
- FE: 0 (possibly 1, but low)
- pH: 7/7.2
- NH3: Nil!

From what I can see, the tank IS cycled, the fish are incredibly healthy and have been - I'm thrilled, but I don't want to get TOOOO excited yet in case I'm wrong. Can anyone help and give some suggestions?

TIA!!! :)

Nick
Proud new fishy owner

[webcricket]

If there is any ammonia or nitrite present, the tank is not fully cycled - there really isn't a "safe" range for these, they need to be consistently at 0. The only thing you should be seeing is nitrate.

Are you using a liquid test kit? The dip strips are rubbish and will not give you good numbers.

[andsoitgoes]

If there is any ammonia or nitrite present, the tank is not fully cycled - there really isn't a "safe" range for these, they need to be consistently at 0. The only thing you should be seeing is nitrate.

NH3 is 100% 0 and the Nitrite was showing, as I said, at around/under the .3mg/l range - which from every bit of research I've done is the way it's supposed to be - and the nitrates are rising to the 12.5mg/l level - which is again what I've seen to be on par. I thought Nitrites had to be present to turn INTO nitrates?



Are you using a liquid test kit? The dip strips are rubbish and will not give you good numbers.

Yes - I'm using a liquid kit, and I'm staying far, far away from the dip tests. They look easier but from my days in chemistry, I know they're about as usefull as a hammer made of rice.

[paku]

Took my 10g a month of 50% water change4s every day because i did a fishy cycle. Non of my fish died. And finally i have a tank at a constant 0/0/20
with 50% changes every week. I would not add anymore fish untill its fully cycled. Or you may be doing 50% changes every day like i was :p

[andsoitgoes]

Took my 10g a month of 50% water change4s every day because i did a fishy cycle. Non of my fish died. And finally i have a tank at a constant 0/0/20
with 50% changes every week. I would not add anymore fish untill its fully cycled. Or you may be doing 50% changes every day like i was :p


I'll keep a close eye on it - I'm just confused that if I'm at 0/.3/12.5 that it's basically on its way and everything is working properly? From everything I've read, it's all in the safe range?

Yours,

Confused :)

[Star_Rider]

nitrates may be present and could come from the water source. you could test the source to make sure.

either way keep up on the tests..like it was metioned..ammonia, nitrites should read 0
your nitrites may spike.

you can speed the cycle up by adding live bacteria.


keep up on the testing and be ready to do wc if needed.
good luck :)

[andsoitgoes]

nitrates may be present and could come from the water source. you could test the source to make sure.

either way keep up on the tests..like it was metioned..ammonia, nitrites should read 0
your nitrites may spike.

you can speed the cycle up by adding live bacteria.


keep up on the testing and be ready to do wc if needed.
good luck :)

I *WISH* I could add live bacteria - but I have the pleasure of living in Canada where it's pretty much impossible to get. I'd die for some bio spira!! :)

I'm keeping a close eye on things and am going go to run another test in about 20 minutes to see where things stand at that point. If my nitrates and NH3 are 0 and the Nitrates are on the rise (how much higher do they need to be?)... I take it I'll be where I want to be? :)

thanks

[andsoitgoes]

I *WISH* I could add live bacteria - but I have the pleasure of living in Canada where it's pretty much impossible to get. I'd die for some bio spira!! :)

I'm keeping a close eye on things and am going go to run another test in about 20 minutes to see where things stand at that point. If my nitrates and NH3 are 0 and the Nitrates are on the rise (how much higher do they need to be?)... I take it I'll be where I want to be? :)

thanks

okay - another update.

NH3 - 0
NO2 - .3mg/l
NO3 (tank) - 12.5mg/l
NO3 (tap) - 12.5mg/l

Now - I know what was mentioned before regarding the Nitrates coming from the tap water - but wouldn't that zero out after a short period of time? I'm just hoping to get an idea of what to expect, as it doesn't seem to be moving from this stage. I'm ready to do as many water changes as is needed!

Thanks as always

[webcricket]

Wait for ammonia and nitrite to be at 0 before adding new fish. Once they reach 0 and stay there for 24 hours you know for certain enough bacteria will have established to handle the current biological load.

Because you did a "fishy" cycle, any time you add new fish you will experience a mini-cycle as the bacteria will need to build up to handle the new waste load. It's best to only be adding a couple of fish at a time to minimize the ammonia/nitrite spikes and subsequent stress on the fish.

Edit: It may not be a bad idea to post your current stock in the tank and what you are looking to add in a separate post on the boards just to check that you won't be overstocked with your plans. It sounds like you've been picking up schooling fishes thus far and your tank will fill up very quickly if you're getting proper sized schools.

[liv2padl]

I have the pleasure of living in Canada where it's pretty much impossible to get while you may not be able to get Biospira, you do have the luck of living in gods country. i wish i lived in canada.

[Ms.Bubbles]

while you may not be able to get Biospira, you do have the luck of living in gods country. i wish i lived in canada.

Why's that liv2padl?

[twig]

I live in Quebec and I ordered my Bio-Spira from www.aquariumplants.com

[plah831]

there are other sources of nitrifying bacteria besides BioSpira. If you have another tank, or a trusted friend with a *healthy* tank, you can take a handful of that gravel or squeeze the filter sponge over your tank. I've done that and I cycled in less than a week! The caveat is that it must be from a healthy, established tank that will not introduce diseases or parasites into your tank.

I wish I lived in Canada, too! Gotta love free healthcare for all.

[andsoitgoes]

there are other sources of nitrifying bacteria besides BioSpira. If you have another tank, or a trusted friend with a *healthy* tank, you can take a handful of that gravel or squeeze the filter sponge over your tank. I've done that and I cycled in less than a week! The caveat is that it must be from a healthy, established tank that will not introduce diseases or parasites into your tank.

I wish I lived in Canada, too! Gotta love free healthcare for all.

Two birds in one stone - I'm in the process of trying to get some tank gunk from a friend's healthy tank - But I haven't had a chance to do that yet. Also - for the website that ships to canada, my only concern is the cost - Overnight is 42 bucks US and 5 day only goes down to 18! =(

As for adding in material from the other tank, would it be best to squeeze the filter gunk into the filter rather than direct in the tank?

Thanks! And free healthcare is good, but FAR from great. Sometimes paying for GOOD doctors is better than getting a truckload of crappy ones given to you on a silver platter ;)

Nick

[andsoitgoes]

Another update....

The tank has been stable with Amon. at 0 from last night to this morning.

Nitrites haven't changed from .3mg/l and I had the luck of acquiring a very well established 20g tank and I've taken some of the high quality filter water from that and added it to our tank.

I had to change the filter media because stupid me decided to pour water in and stir all the gravel, which got a lot of floaties. Now my poor guys are looking a little sore and uncomfortable, which I'm frustrated by... anyway the filter was a bit older and was SOOOO clogged that enough water wasn't getting through. What I did was take that filter out (it's from a Hagen Elite Hush 20g filter) and drop it in the tank, then swap in the new, clean filter. I'd rinsed out the old filter a few times and it just kept clogging up.

Once a few days have passed, can I take that old filter and put it in my new tank to help things out?

Look forward to thoughts as always!

Nick

[plah831]

I'm confused. I think you're using the word "filter" when you really mean "filter media." The filter is the entire machine that does the filtration. The filter media is the sponge on which your good bacteria live. Anyway, see this thread because it talks about how to jumpstart a new biological filter (good bacteria) with an old tank/filter and media
http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=82295

Also, using water from an established tank will not help your tank, because most of the nitrifying bacteria reside on surfaces. Things like bio-sponges, foam, and ceramic rings are great biological filter media because they have massive amounts of surface area, so will have relatively greater numbers of bacteria than anything else in your tank.

If you want to borrow some bacteria from your friend's tank, would he let you have his old filter sponge? He would still have enough bacteria in his gravel and tank that he probably won't notice a change. Otherwise, you could just take his filter sponge and squeeze the gunk into your tank. The bacteria will float around for awhile in the water, until they settle onto surfaces. So you might see cloudiness in the first few days which will be the bloom of beneficial bacteria.

Yes, gunk will clog your filter sponge. This is not good because it impedes the flow of water, hence reducing effectiveness of your filtration and suffocating your good bacteria. They need oxygen to do what they do, which is supplied by adequate flow of fresh water. To prevent the clogging of the filter sponge, you need mechanical filter media. This is usually cottony like filter floss, or the white bags you usually get in packs designed for your filter model. This mechanical filter media must be placed in the filter in front of the biological filter media. This way, water will pass through it first, particles will be trapped on it, allowing only water to continue through the bio-sponge.

For more examples of the various types of filter media, check out
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/NavResults.cfm?N=2004+113803
It's where I buy most of my supplies from. On that page, there is also articles about the different kinds of filtration: mechanical, chemical, and biological. Just so you know, I don't find a need for chemical filtration. I do water changes often enough that I remove the things that chemical filtration media claim to.

hope that helps, I know it's a lot to absorb. You'll find that once you feel comfortable with your aptitude as a ***********, you'll also be somewhat of a water chemist! Good luck, Nick, and I look forward to seeing more of you around the forum :)