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Astro
08-31-2006, 6:33 PM
I have been told that instead of conditioning tap water, if you leave a bucket of tap water to stand for 24 hours, all the chlorine will evapourate, meaning thsat you don't have to add chemicals to neutralise the chlorine (surely a good thing)...

But is it true? I have searched the threads but not turned up any advocating this approach. Or is it true but outdated - working only on chlorine but not on chloramine? My water-board uses chloramine.

This is especially relevant to me at the moment because I am in the process of fishless-cycling a 214 litre tank (45 gallons?) - and some people have reported that some water conditioners can neutralise the ammonia, which can suddenly uncycle the tank. If I have to use conditioners, which ones won't destroy the ammonia, leaving it for the bacteria to deal with?

Thanks

Dave

Rbishop
08-31-2006, 6:56 PM
It can degas chlorine if it sits long enough, and sometimes may require agitation. However, many municipalities use chloramine, which will not gas off.

I recommend the use of Prime, that will handle both and is probably the most inexpensive/dose.

Toirtis
08-31-2006, 7:20 PM
What is more, each year, many communities switch from chlorine to chloramine, which is cheaper and more safe....and you can bet it will not be headline news when they do, and not knowing could cost you a lot of fish.

Astro
08-31-2006, 7:31 PM
Thanks very much for the advice!

So the thing is - I don't want to add any ammonia-destroying chemicals to the fishtank, in case it upsets the cycling. In his article about fishless cycling Chris Cow,PhD says 'do NOT use dechlorinators that also sequester ammonia, such as the very popular Amquel.' Are there conditioners which remove chloramine without touching ammonia? Will 'Prime' (or similar conditioner) evapourate or deactivate itself if I leave the conditioned bucket for a while? Or is it safe to use after fishless cycling the tank?

Toirtis
08-31-2006, 7:36 PM
Even Amquel (or Prime), unless added directly to the tank, will not significantly affect cycling.

Rbishop
08-31-2006, 7:39 PM
Most additives do not "destroy" the ammonia, as much as they claim. They may bind it so it is less harmful but still available for the bacteria. This can give you false readings on your ammonia tests.

Do not trust any chemical additive/product that says by using it you will do less maintenance. Water change, water change, water change.

dabaers
08-31-2006, 7:44 PM
Most bottles will clearly say chlorine, chloramine, heavy metals.
The ones that also do ammonia/nitrite etc also like prime, amquel will say so on the bottle. So just read your labels.

Kath

Astro
08-31-2006, 8:06 PM
Good to know that water change quantities won't throw things - and thanks Kath, I will try to avoid the ones that do ammonia just to be on the safe side.

I looked through my bottles of stuff and have some 'Stress Coat' which says it can be used as a conditioner, removing chlorine and breaking down chloramine. This sounds ideal - but it also has Aloe Vera in it. Is it ok to add this (in with the new tap water for a water change) on a regular basis?

coupedefleur
09-01-2006, 8:58 AM
Water treatment plants will use chloramine at the drop of a hat if they are responding to a problem.

It IS a good idea to let water sit anyway, especially in the winter. There is a lot of gas dissolved in cold water, and it's better to let it escape.

Star_Rider
09-01-2006, 10:02 AM
some municipalities add buffers to the water. I know from a breeder here that Seattle adds a buffer to the water..as the water is naturally acidic (reservoir water) the buffer is added to keep the acid from eating away at the pipes.

this particualr breeder has two 500 gallon tanks to heat, agitate the water. it technically isn't standing water since it cirulates in the holding tanks...but it is aged water.

Cathy G
09-01-2006, 10:45 AM
No stress coat...

Aloe vera is not found in any fishes natural environment. It helps us with our sun burns, but is really just another pollutant in the water. Imo, adding stuff like stress coat regularly to tank water is not beneficial to the fish. It may help out in times of disease or stress, but the best thing for fish is clean fresh water.

Cathy

Astro
09-01-2006, 1:59 PM
thanks - found some stuff which does just ammonia, ammonium and heavy metals, and no Aloe Vera. Want to try and get it right for the fishies this time.

TheZoo
09-01-2006, 2:48 PM
thanks - found some stuff which does just ammonia, ammonium and heavy metals, and no Aloe Vera. Want to try and get it right for the fishies this time.

Did you mean chlorine and chloramine?

Astro
09-01-2006, 7:18 PM
My mistake - yes that is what I mean Zoo. All these chemical names are spinning round my head now.

bigscout
09-01-2006, 9:48 PM
It seems your issue is handled quite well, for your reference Chlorine will in fact gas off, but some sort of agitation is usually needed to get it to go away in 24 hours. I use this method religiously and seldom if ever use dechlorinator. Chloramine will also eventually break down and the chlorine will gas off, this usually takes several days to a week with agitation/aireation.

I would not even consider aging water with chloramines and not using some sort of dechlorinator anyhow. Chloramines are stable enough to be worrisome to me even if they may eventually gas off. additionally if you are aging water, with chloramines, it's nice to have a bio-filter to eliminate the ammonia, and rtoutinely filling your aging barrell with chloriminated water would negate your bio-filter.

RustyRay
09-01-2006, 11:39 PM
Chloramine does in fact off-gas with aeration, but it takes a week or more.

I've done this experiment just because I was curious. Obviously, using aeration to get rid of chloramine is a waste of time and electricity. But it does work because ammonia and chlorine are both gases even when combine to make chloramine.

"Just use a dechlorinator" is my advice.

kveeti
09-01-2006, 11:44 PM
thanks - found some stuff which does just ammonia, ammonium and heavy metals, and no Aloe Vera. Want to try and get it right for the fishies this time.

As you stated, meant chlorine and chloramine. Which product? A lot will say they "treat" chloramine but that only means they break the chlorine/ammonia bond and then the ammonia is left. It must also specifcially state that it deals with the ammonia from that broken bond.

Astro
09-10-2006, 10:40 PM
I am now using API 'Tap Water Conditioner'. I definately don't want any de-ammonia stuff at the moment, because I am still fishless cycling. Is it OK to continue to use this when there are fish in the tank? How much ammonia is there in dechloramined water? I guess I should test next time I do a water change.

sly2kusa
09-10-2006, 11:10 PM
I purchased a water purifier to remove Chlorine and Chloramine elements (along with just about any other hard element) when I first purchased my aquarium so that I wouldn't have to deal with any chems other than meds as/if ever needed.

This is what I bought - it was cheap and easy to install...

http://www.bidness.com/esd/us4_water_filter.htm


P.S. It was the US4-IL

TheZoo
09-11-2006, 1:06 PM
I am now using API 'Tap Water Conditioner'. I definately don't want any de-ammonia stuff at the moment, because I am still fishless cycling. Is it OK to continue to use this when there are fish in the tank? How much ammonia is there in dechloramined water? I guess I should test next time I do a water change.

If you have chlorine/ chloramines in your water, yes, use the conditioner whenever you put fresh water in.

Astro
09-12-2006, 4:29 PM
Hi Zoo - I meant should I use 'tap water conditioner' which treats chlorine and chloramine, as opposed to 'prime' or so something which does chlorine, chloramine and the resulting ammonia.

Anyway - I treated a bucket of tapwater with 'tap water conditioner' and then tested for ammonia (I didn't know how quick the conditioner works, so I tested immediately, an hour later, and 5 hours later). No detectable ammonia. So that answers my question, I can steer clear of the ones that do ammonia (I prefer to add the least ammount of chemicals necesary)

TheZoo
09-12-2006, 7:35 PM
oh... yeah, as you found out, it should be fine. Any resulting ammonia will be negligable and easily removed w/ water changes. I used API "tap water conditioner" for a long time, have had trouble finding it lately though.

sly2kusa
09-12-2006, 11:55 PM
... I used API "tap water conditioner" for a long time, have had trouble finding it lately though.

http://www.petstore.com/ps_viewitem.aspx?idproduct=AP1145