Want to know how Betta is shipped?

[neoprodigy]

i was invited to a private tour to a Transhipper facility in Southern California...

this is how betta ship

[BloodThirsty28]

:mad2:

[hondamx]

:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

[neoprodigy]

:mad2:


i know how you feel... but this is how these guys got ship over here.... in "betta packets"

[paku]

yup.. I have seen very similar packaging from one of my LFS. Poors guys. Not much worse than the cups they keep em in either.

[Ghost_knife]

my LFS gets them in a big fish bag, I feel bad for them.

[webcricket]

All those poor fish. :(

[neoprodigy]

All those poor fish. :(


will people buy a betta that cost 3x-4x more because it was bag in a bigger bag?

should they do the same kind of label as what they doing for the "orgainic" food...


"we transport this fish in a roomier bag"

[Rallysman]

hey Li, do you know what the death rate is on those?
I find that very interesting.

[neoprodigy]

hey Li, do you know what the death rate is on those?
I find that very interesting.


i did found a "stale packet" but i will check with guy in there and give me a #

[Candycat21]

I'm not sure what transhipper that was, but all the transhippers I deal with and there aren't that many in the US, don't get their fish like that!! :mad2: The bettas are shipped in bags that vary in size from about 4x12, 4x14, 6x12, 6x14
The bags are filled 1/3 water and the rest with air. The bigger the betta or the bigger the finnage of the fish, the bigger the bag is it's shipped in to reduce chances of tail biting which is very common in bettas .
If any of my transhippers or breeders I get my fish from overseas ship fish in tiny bags with only a teaspoon of water then I definitely wouldn't deal with them period!

[paku]

hey Li, do you know what the death rate is on those?
I find that very interesting.


I'm gonna take a guess at 25-30%... you go to petco or petsmart when they get a new shipment in, and you see prolly 50 cups full, they all look pretty good(for being in those bags for up to a week)... but you go in a week later and half of the cups are filled with dying fish, I have seen them with bloat / dropsy / ich... They prolly all survive the shipping. I would guess less than 5-10% death rate... but the stress over time prolly gets allot more.

[FreddytheFish]

Wow. Good thing bettas can breathe some air.

[neoprodigy]

I'm not sure what transhipper that was, but all the transhippers I deal with and there aren't that many in the US, don't get their fish like that!! :mad2: The bettas are shipped in bags that vary in size from about 4x12, 4x14, 6x12, 6x14
The bags are filled 1/3 water and the rest with air. The bigger the betta or the bigger the finnage of the fish, the bigger the bag is it's shipped in to reduce chances of tail biting which is very common in bettas .
If any of my transhippers or breeders I get my fish from overseas ship fish in tiny bags with only a teaspoon of water then I definitely wouldn't deal with them period!


maybe your transhipper re-packet into bigger bags?? :huh:

[blkwdw13]

I never would of thought that they were shipped liked that.

[DaisyTattoo]

maybe your transhipper re-packet into bigger bags?? :huh:
She deals with specialized breeder bettas such as half moons and double tails. That may also make a difference. The betta's you showed were veil tailed. Basically garbage to the breeding world. We cause this bc of the high demand we create by purchasing them. I am guilty as well since I am currently housing 4 betta's at my house.

[neoprodigy]

ok got off the phone...

they do re-package the "betta packets" into bigger fish bags..

the death rate in the betta packets is very low.... from what i remember i only see 1 dead packet... you can tell by the brownish water...

[jm1212]

that is so sad...
some of those bettas had really good coloring. from what i could see there were a couple of reds and one that looked a bit orange.

[neoprodigy]

that is so sad...
some of those bettas had really good coloring. from what i could see there were a couple of reds and one that looked a bit orange.


its the market... without the demand (low price)... these fish will not be ship like this....

[sumthin fishy]

hmmmm, it seems you are showing us info on a betta company. Isnt that called :spam: ? You may be the mayor of this town, but Im still the spam police. Your on shaky ground mister ;) lol just kidding.

What concerns me is the ammount of water they are in, and that it apears the bags are sealed tight. Even if they can breathe the air in the bag, there is not much air there. All I can hope for is that they are moved to better conditions immediatly upon reciept of the shipment.

[icecubez189]

it would suck for the bettas if they were shipped while the bags fell to the side.

[Blueiz]

What concerns me is the ammount of water they are in, and that it apears the bags are sealed tight. Even if they can breathe the air in the bag, there is not much air there. All I can hope for is that they are moved to better conditions immediatly upon reciept of the shipment.

Are they in "breathable" bags ? Would explain why they can survive for such long periods in a bag sealed tight that is so small..

http://www.novalek.com/kpd74.htm

My LFS gets them in in the same tiny bags..

Blue

[neoprodigy]

Are they in "breathable" bags ? Would explain why they can survive for such long periods in a bag sealed tight that is so small..

http://www.novalek.com/kpd74.htm

My LFS gets them in in the same tiny bags..

Blue

dont think they are in those "breathable" bag

[sumthin fishy]

Are they in "breathable" bags ?
ROFLMAO! jeeze, thought I heard em all. Bags with lungs? Thats just silly.


I never thought of it, but I guess that's possible. Oxygen molicules are smaller than water molicules, so it could allow for air to pass through without water leaking out.

[epicfish]

Hm, wow, poor fish.

[rosita]

Wow, pretty interesting, I went to one of my better LFS today, and durn if they didn't have bettas that had just come in, packed the same way. I asked the guy how they actually survived, and he said he believed it was because for a temporary ship, enough water to cover and the rest oxygen seemed to be enough for them--he's not too happy about it either, as he is a breeder of fish as well and just works there, but has to follow store police. As Li pointed out, with such low price points (and still high profit margin) the bettas become "objects" to sell, not living creatures.
If they were in the gas permeable plastic I think there would be a host of other problems, the least of which might be the plastic sticking together.
The only criterion which perpetuates the sardine packing of bettas is their popularity as an easily replaced, expendable decoration for people who mostly don't know any better, don't think about it, or just don't care. For all their beauty I don't think I could ever bring another betta home unless it was privately bred.

[Rallysman]

ROFLMAO! jeeze, thought I heard em all. Bags with lungs? Thats just silly.


I never thought of it, but I guess that's possible. Oxygen molicules are smaller than water molicules, so it could allow for air to pass through without water leaking out.
They exist. I'm getting ready to ship a royal pleco in one, and I've heard stories (from a professional giving a presentation at an aquarium club meeting) that a fish has survived for 3 weeks in one of these bags. It was by accident ofcourse, but the bags are out there.
They alow the transfer of co2 and oxygen.

http://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/1/2/5/6/5/9/webimg/12491761_tp.gif

[fishcatch22]

that's horrible! I wonder why animal cruelty laws don't apply to all animals that are intended as pets.....

[dorris]

Yeh that is real sad and cruel. Imagine if humans were like bettas to some other dominant species and they stuck us in bags that we couldnt move in and shipped us around. That is how I look at life. I am mad.

[Aussie_hippie_2]

Fish and I believe birds are not covered by animal cruelty laws in the US. Apparantly fish and birds can't feel pain...

U.S animal cruelty laws make me sick.

[Logy]

Some of these Bettas never get a break. First they are shipped in this horrible fashion and than they are takin' home by little johnny to put in his .5 gallon death bowl with no heater/light's or filtration and die a few months later. :mad2:

[Pheintz]

Years ago I was told they were all shipped wrapped up in wet paper towels. Their reasoning was that they are air breathers and only need to be kept from drying out. Doesn't look like they've made much of an improvement in shipping methods.

[jm1212]

Fish and I believe birds are not covered by animal cruelty laws in the US. Apparantly fish and birds can't feel pain...

U.S animal cruelty laws make me sick.fish arent like you said, and some birds are covered though, like the big birds like cockatoos, macaws, amazons, african greys etc. that are.
budgies, cockatiels, finches (small birds) are not. big birds can hurt people bad, and sometimes people hurt them back. the ASPCA decided to cover the big boys of the bird world

[fishcatch22]

fish arent like you said, and some birds are covered though, like the big birds like cockatoos, macaws, amazons, african greys etc. that are.
budgies, cockatiels, finches (small birds) are not. big birds can hurt people bad, and sometimes people hurt them back. the ASPCA decided to cover the big boys of the bird worldbut why not the little ones? just because budgies and cockateils are "cheap" shouldn't make them immune to cruelty laws. 80% of all budgies die before their first year is reached due to neglect. if they made laws, this unfortunate number may diminish.

[NinjaPirate]

ok got off the phone...

they do re-package the "betta packets" into bigger fish bags..

the death rate in the betta packets is very low.... from what i remember i only see 1 dead packet... you can tell by the brownish water...

Unfortunantly this is true. Bettas can "survive" in a small enclosed space with just enough water to keep them wet for up to 3 weeks usually. Shipping in small enclosed spaces has advantages, as the smaller amount of water prevents the betta from being tossed around too much and it costs less to ship low water weight. But when breeders do it they do so with the intention that they be in them for at most 2-3 days.

I wouldn't be surprised if most of the deaths that occured in those little packets were from fish getting pinched into the squared corners and sufficating.

:sad:

[dorris]

I still feel for them hey.

I don't know if Australia has an International Betta Congress chapter but it would be cool if we did. I don't get to see many nice Betta's here. Only online really.

They should hold a competition on this site for the best Betta's. And the visitors could judge it. That would be cool. People all over the world could compete against each other. But to stop cheaters, I guess you would have to supply about 10 pics of each fish. Hopefully photography skills would not come into the comp too much. An idea or what?

[NinjaPirate]

Actually, you have *2* chapters of the IBC based in Australia :)

One of which has a website:
www.australianbettaclub.com

[wackydan]

Price we/fish pay to have the hobby we're in. Disturbing though.

[jm1212]

but why not the little ones? just because budgies and cockateils are "cheap" shouldn't make them immune to cruelty laws. 80% of all budgies die before their first year is reached due to neglect. if they made laws, this unfortunate number may diminish.it is because they dont really come into contact with humans. most budgies are cage birds IME, and cannot do as much harm to a person like a big bird can. they are also veiwed like fish (throw away pets) because they are so cheap, so if they die from cruelty, noone reports it because "budgies only live for a year," just like the myth that fish only live a week

big birds like macaws and cockatoos can bite you and cause the same wound as a medium sized dog. therefore, if they hurt a human, irresponsible people will beat the bird. go here- www.fosterparrots.org (http://www.fosterparrots.org), and they have some birds that were siezed because they were beaten. birds SCREAM when they get hurt, and the big ones litteraly can out scream your ipod when its up all of the way, and so the neighbors can hear it. you may want to look into this more, but im pretty sure that the little ones arent covered.

for example, my friends cockatoo was attacked by a stray cat a few days ago. the cockatoo won. it killed the cat because it was able to bite the cat as hard as it could, and the bird came out with a puny sratch.

[fishcatch22]

it is because they dont really come into contact with humans. most budgies are cage birds IME, and cannot do as much harm to a person like a big bird can. they are also veiwed like fish (throw away pets) because they are so cheap, so if they die from cruelty, noone reports it because "budgies only live for a year," just like the myth that fish only live a week

big birds like macaws and cockatoos can bite you and cause the same wound as a medium sized dog. therefore, if they hurt a human, irresponsible people will beat the bird. go here- www.fosterparrots.org (http://www.fosterparrots.org), and they have some birds that were siezed because they were beaten. birds SCREAM when they get hurt, and the big ones litteraly can out scream your ipod when its up all of the way, and so the neighbors can hear it. you may want to look into this more, but im pretty sure that the little ones arent covered.

for example, my friends cockatoo was attacked by a stray cat a few days ago. the cockatoo won. it killed the cat because it was able to bite the cat as hard as it could, and the bird came out with a puny sratch.SIGH... I just love my budgie so much... I can't imagine anyone treating such intelligent, interactive pets like budgies as throw away cage birds. yeah, I know. some of the big birds are really strong, but great pets to have IME.

[mr_bentley78]

I'm not sure what transhipper that was, but all the transhippers I deal with and there aren't that many in the US, don't get their fish like that!! :mad2: The bettas are shipped in bags that vary in size from about 4x12, 4x14, 6x12, 6x14
The bags are filled 1/3 water and the rest with air. The bigger the betta or the bigger the finnage of the fish, the bigger the bag is it's shipped in to reduce chances of tail biting which is very common in bettas .
If any of my transhippers or breeders I get my fish from overseas ship fish in tiny bags with only a teaspoon of water then I definitely wouldn't deal with them period!

All the Bettas we get to our store come packaged in containers similar to that, but pyramid shaped. Very very....very small packs.

[dr_sudz]

I worked at an LFS around here and they all come like that, the mortality rate is extremely low. I believe it has to do with the fact of where they come from. As far as I know, and if any know differnt I want to know, they come from rice fields in asia, durring the dry season they have very little water to live in, but when the wet season comes they have a lot more obviously and that is when they mate and what not. These are very hardy fish, I was told that before the tablespoon of water treatment they were shipped on damp moss. I find it amazing on the resiliance of these fish. I agree tho, keeping one in a bowl for a long period of time is just wrong. I like to give mine no less then 10 gallons.

[littleronin]

I actually seen these little baggies with bettas the other day when I was getting my lizard some mealworms.

Really I wasnt too pleased to find that out. It cruel to the little guys.

[dorris]

I doubt very much that they collected colourfull bettas from rice patties in asia. The thing with fancy coloured and finned bettas these days is that they have been bread and bread and bread to look like they do. In the wild they are rather drap in comparison and no pet shops in the world would really sell them.

[dwarfgourami7]

The reason why they are like that is due to supply and demand. I expect 2/3 of the members of this site have at least one betta. Thats alot of bettas so trade companies have to transport alot of them at once to meet your demands if you bought less bettas they would be treated better. Although theres not much any of us could do now or ever but its just that fact that you want bettas so they give you bettas regardless of the quality they are in.

[Omega]

This makes me so upset.

[wataugachicken]

A lot of fish go through a tough time during shipping, not just bettas. From an article about the cost of fish written by an LFS near me:


Most captive bred fish are now raised in Asia where they are caught, counted and shipped by air to a facility such as Dolphin International in Los Angeles, California. At a facility like this, the fish are unbagged, placed on a wet conveyor belt, sorted by size, recounted and rebagged. They are then shipped by air to wholesalers throughout the country. (Dolphin International sells more than $1,000,000 of freshwater fish per day and does not have a single aquarium.)

[Toirtis]

i know how you feel... but this is how these guys got ship over here.... in "betta packets"

Yes, and usually in 3-4 layers in a box....each layer containing 100-125 packets. Perhaps surprisingly, mortality-rate on a shipment of 500 bettas is usually 0-4 fish...much lower than most other species shipped in large bags conatining multiple fish.

However, if, as some members might wish, bettas were shipped in even a baseball-sized fish bag, they would never retail for less than $10 each (bigger bags=higher air-freight costs=higher wholesale costs=higher retail prices).

Believe it or not, back when (15-20 years ago), bettas were often shipped between two layers of wet fabric.

[SftWrmRain]

However, if, as some members might wish, bettas were shipped in even a baseball-sized fish bag, they would never retail for less than $10 each (bigger bags=higher air-freight costs=higher wholesale costs=higher retail prices)
IMO this is what needs to happen. Responsible betta owners wouldn't mind paying $10 for a fish, I don't think. It's their low prices that causes little Johnny's mom to buy it up for him and not care if it's mistreated or dies. People that fork out more money for things they want tend to care more about their welfare.

[Marinemom]

IMO this is what needs to happen. Responsible betta owners wouldn't mind paying $10 for a fish, I don't think. It's their low prices that causes little Johnny's mom to buy it up for him and not care if it's mistreated or dies. People that fork out more money for things they want tend to care more about their welfare.

This is so true. Look at fish that are sought after such as angelfish and discus.They are treated better not just because they are generally more sensitive fish, but people want them and are willing to pay more for them.

Marinemom

[desertgoldhound]

Hey can I find out who they are I wouldn't mind making a trip there and bagging the shippers and owners up in a garbage bag with just a little air and shipping them like that...................... Do you think that I would go to jail?


If I shipped a dog like that Do you think I would go to jail?

What if I shipped a cat like that Do you think I would go to jail?

Ok if I shipped a fish like that Do you think I would go to jail?


Whats wrong with these answers?

Point Blank WRONG!!!!

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

[Omega]

IMO this is what needs to happen. Responsible betta owners wouldn't mind paying $10 for a fish, I don't think. It's their low prices that causes little Johnny's mom to buy it up for him and not care if it's mistreated or dies. People that fork out more money for things they want tend to care more about their welfare.Your avatar is the most beautiful betta I've ever seen. Is it yours?

[SftWrmRain]

Your avatar is the most beautiful betta I've ever seen. Is it yours?
Aww thanks! Yes, he certainly is. His name is Valentino. His mate's name is Xena, and I'll attach a pic of her too. Thank you for the nice compliment! I currently have 10 day old fry from their one and only spawn. Looks to be about 50. I'm so excited to watch them grow!

[Koliveira]

That is the same way we recieve them at the LFS. I have had discus I imported from Thailand shipped that way as well and most made it all right. I do not order from that company any more because the quality of there discus was low but packing density was very high to best optimize shipping costs.

[ausername]

This makes me very sad :sad: . I hope none of my guys were shipped like that... i'm giving them a treat just incase.

[Star_Rider]

hmmm..some thought... but in reality I bet the amount of water to each fish is pretty close to what I have seen with fish sent to a store in a big bag with about half gallon of water and 30 fish (or more).

I have seen bags with lots of fish in them.

if you think about the individual bags,sealed, the species of this fish and the liklihood of those shipping bowls getting damaged in transit..those little baggies may not be such a bad thing.

if the mortality rate is as low as is stated..maybe they researched this and calculated the best method. otherwise those bettas may run quite a bit more than you are paying for them.
water is heavy and freight is based on weight.

[Toirtis]

if the mortality rate is as low as is stated..

It is...and with shipping prices going up every few months, shipping any other way would see bettas becoming quite pricey ($10-$20 each), which would mean that North Americans would buy fewer, which would mean that shops would sell and therefore buy less, so overseas wholesalers would sell less, and many would downsize or close.... it has its impacts.

[saphphx]

Don't know which is worse, this - or how my local fish hell (the WORSE LFS ever) gets them all in a big box in a massive bag, with tons of males and females all mixed in, the bottom is covered in bits and dead fish. its really nasty. They just kinda net off the few live ones and bin the box. Have been getting health and safety after them as I'm sure a massive box of dead fish on a hot summer day has got to be a health violation, set aside its animal cruilty to start with. People suck.

[Octavarium]

Horrendous, someone needs to put an end to this insanity.

[Danyal]

i work at deathco, we got a shipment of about 30~50 of those bettas every week packed just like that. it's not uncommon for there to be 5 or more dead ones in a shipment and once we lost about 10~12 but usually there are none or just one dead, still doesn't make it right though.

[pyroman522]

i worked at petsmart for about 6 months or so... ours came in cups.. that place is terrible nonetheless though.

[Dwarf Puffers]

Anyone notice how old this thread is?....

[pyroman522]

yea i did someone posted and brought it up so i figured heck why not. lol