Freezing my family!

J

jpat

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Aug 22, 2006
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After studying various threads on this forum for some time in order to answer my questions, I figured I would just take a deep breath and dive in. Here's the scenario: back about May I found this (about 25 gal) preformed pond with fountain and pump at a yard sale for $5, so of course I could not say no when they said they would throw in the fake spitting frog for free.

After a rough start where I ended up murdering a couple fish, (now I know the pond was cycling) the pond finally settled and now I have a very happy community of three goldfish (about 2") two coy (3"& 4") and about 7-9 wild minnow things my 10-year-old caught in a swamp. Also added some transplanted wild lily pads and some frond thing which are all thriving.

So whats the problem? I live in northern Vermont where the frost line is about 3-4 feet straight down. If luck is with us, I figure I have about two months before my little pond is a solid block of ice. To avoid this inevitable threat of freezing my new little family, I have constructed an indoor "pond/ fountain" (only about 20 gal) to closely mimic the outdoor one to keep my babies happy.

Not wanting to have another fish funeral, I filled it, replaced the water after a few days, and before I could fully read up on the proper way to cycle it my latch key son decided to fill the new pond with a couple of the minnows. This was about 7 days ago. To my complete surprise they seem to be doing great so far. I want to cycle the "pond" properly, but these two are already in and doing okay. Will it be beneficial if I take the yuckky filter from the first pond and throw it in the new one to get the bacteria. Not sure what to do at his point to make the winter home safe for my little ones. Help!
 
The outside pond of 25 gallons and the 20 gallon for the winter are not sufficient in size to house even one goldfish long-term - they get far too large. You need to upgrade in pond and tank size or find new homes for the current fish.

If you want to keep cold-water fish in the pond and then overwinter indoors, look into maybe white cloud minnows or moquito fish which would be appropriate for what you have now.
 
Yes it will help but you don't want to leave your older pond without it's bacteria colony because it will need to cycle again. Once you decide to move your fish over then you can move the old filter over too. You can also put new filter in with your old one to allow a bacteria colony to form which you can then move over to the new tank.
 
Thank you, Bunny. That is exactly what I was hoping to hear. I also plan on bringing the pond lilies inside into the same tank to keep them from freezing. I appreciate the input provided here. Way up here in the NEK my Ag store/pet supplier did not even know what cycling was. Thanks for the input and wish us well, please.
 
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webcricket said:
The outside pond of 25 gallons and the 20 gallon for the winter are not sufficient in size to house even one goldfish long-term - they get far too large. You need to upgrade in pond and tank size or find new homes for the current fish.
Click to expand...

This should not be ignored, you need to get a MUCH larger pond for those fish.

The koi should be able to hit 3 feet in length - if they can't do that in your pond there going to live a life of pain and die prematurely. Same goes for the goldies - except they only hit around 1-2 feet in length.

There's a myth out there that fish grow to the container there in - not true. What really happens is the body of the fish stops growing when it gets to the largest size that container can suport - but the organs continue to grow, and spine deformation eventually occurs, obviously quite painfull for the fish.

Your gonna need a pond about 10 feet x 5 feet x 4 feet deep to properly house them.

There is no way your fish are thriving in those conditions - unless there all less than 3 inches in length at the moment.
 
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Thank you Dorkfish. The goldies are all common fishstore goldfish, less than 3" (probably no more than 1.5") I have read the comments regarding coy, and plan to put them in my brother's proper pond next spring - right now they are about 3" & 3.5"-4" long and seem quite content in the current community.

While the wintering "pond" I hope to put them in is narrower, it will be deeper, and without a large pond lily container which is in the current one ( I hope to repot most of the tubers to a smaller container and place them in the wintering "pond"), so overall the fish will probably have about the same swim space.

Please note I am a novice in this area, I am open to any suggestions, but am not a complete idiot. These are all small fish, and unless the coy grow another 4" over the next 4 months, from what I've studied on the subject, they should be okay until spring thaw. If they do grow excessively, obviously they will be put in a temporary separate tank.

What I am most concered about right now is tempering the wintering home to safely house them.

Your expertise in this area is greatly appreciated.
 
Both your outdoor and indoor setups are too small for your fish load. You are going to have to really stay on top of water changes. Goldfish and Koi are messy fish and produce alot of waste. I would suggest that you sell/trade the Koi back to the pet store and not try to keep them over winter. Koi are more sensitive to water quality than goldfish. Minimum recommendation is 100 gallons per koi. They need very good water quality. I'm afraid you will run into trouble sooner or later with this small of setup. I have 3 fancy goldfish in my indoor 55 gallon aquarium and I have problems trying to keep it clean and the water quality acceptable.
No one wants to discourage you but you are bound to run into trouble with your setup eventually.
Here is what I would do........If you have an agricultural/farm/feed store in your area, buy a 100 gallon Rubbermaid poly stock tank and put it in your garage or wherever it would be protected from the cold and weather. Most of the time you can find these tanks for around $50-$60. You will have a much better chance of overwintering successfully.
 
If you're looking for a larger tub for indoors, check tractor supply and other stores that cater to people with horses or livestock. They have heavy black oval tubs in around 50 and 100 gallon size, and grey rubbermaid tubs as well.
 
Thanks all. Will do my best to keep the others in the set-up I have, but I think my brother has just inherited at least two koi for his (long established) pond. It is not quite the size of a football field and 20' at the deepest spot. There are trout in the pond now, so there must be some food source. I will give him food pellets just in case.

Guess my biggest worry now is will the koi sdo okay in the pond - have not seen any trout over 8" long. Any comments?
 
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