Still more CO2 questions

[Ghostshrimp55]

Hi. My original post about this was apparently lost while Aquaria Central was doing some upgrading so I'll try it again. I tried reading through the sticky on CO2 injection but there's too much in there on DIY set ups. I'm going to go with pressurized CO2 and have a few more questions.

Originally I thought my KH was 4, I just retested and it's actually 3, both in the tap and in the tank. Would it be advisable to add crushed coral to my filter to increase the buffering capacity? My pH is 7.5 and temp is 75F.

Also, I'm having a hard time understanding how to actually get the whole thing up and running properly. What kinds of things do I have to do to get the flow of CO2 right for my tank at start up? How often do I test the water and what kinds of things should I be looking for? Should I be aiming for a specific pH? Should I turn CO2 off at night? If I do have to turn it off, will I have to go through a whole big process to get it running properly again the next day or is it a matter of just setting the regulator to a certain flow rate and opening and closing the needle valve? I ask that because I need to know how much time to add to my mornings in addition to getting ready for work.

Thank you very much for your help.

Also, thanks to those who answered my questions about fertilizing. You've been very helpful.

Oh, and if anyone in the Long Island area is looking for someone to fill their CO2 tanks Laurel Carbonic will do it. They're on 751-11 Koehler Ave. in Ronkonma. (631) 467-2267. They charged me 20 bucks and I'm pretty sure I have a 30lb CO2 tank. It's a little over 2ft tall and about 10 inches in diameter. Could be a 15 pounder, though. I don't know.

My tank equipment specs, if they'll help:
55g with 110 watts compact flourescent lighting (need to get new bulbs soon).
Eheim 2215 canister

[djlen]

I can't believe the thread was lost. I spent close to 20 mins. replying. Sorry about that.
Check my response to Thadius65 here:
http://aquariacentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=83787
It should answer a few of your questions on the CO2 part.

Yes, it is a very good idea to add crushed coral to your filter in a nylon filter bag to raise kH. It will take a couple of weeks to see good results, but the coral will last for months and hold a nice buffer for you. It does sound a bit strange though to have a pH of 7.5°ph and a kH that low. I suggest taking a sample to a reliable LFS for testing just to compare yours to theirs.
If you have further questions don't hesitate to ask. Better to go into CO2 injection from an informed place than to make a costly mistake.

Len

[Ghostshrimp55]

Hi Len. Thanks for the response. Yeah, I don't know what's going on with my KH/pH. The county says that the average value for pH in tap water in my region is 7.3....not too far off from my tank readings. And, like I said, KH from the tap and my tank both read 3 degrees. I guess I should take some tank water and tap water (left overnight) to the LFS for some comparisons. If the readings are correct, what could be the issue? What would make the pH be so high relative to the KH?

Also, I'm shopping around for the parts of the setup. phanmc posted a great article about the setup that gave some links to suppliers of the various parts. However, the one for the needle valve is no longer operational. Where can I get some good quality parts for pretty cheap? I found some 2 guage regulators for about 40 bucks. Is that good? Milwaukee has a 2 gauge setup with solenoid, needle valve, and bubble counter for about 90 bucks. It's here:
http://www.saltycritter.com/co2.htm
Should I go for that? (I know you have issues with the new-fangled device, Len) Anyone have any experience with it? Does it save time and effort? Does it cut down on the worry-factor of overdosing CO2?

I've got my CO2 tank and I'm itching now, more than ever, to get this whole thing going. Thanks for all of the help so far.

[TwoTankAmin]

My tap is pH 7.4 and my kh is 4. The kh tended to drop over time so I initially ran a bag of crushed coral in my filter. Every tank is different and what works for a specific tank takes a bit of trial and error before you find the right method for yours.

I have run a very basic pressurized co2 system for number of years: 5lb bottle, twin gauge regulator bought from a beer supplier, a needle valve that screws into the regulator output, a bubble counter and then into the intake of my Eheim.

When I started this sytem up, I was concerned about pH crashes, overnight co2 buildup etc. I started out with a rate of 25 bpm (bubbles/minute). To know what was up I tested the tank several times per day over a few days. I made sure to test a few hours after lights out as well as in the early morning just before lights on. My sytem doesn't need anything done to it for night periods is what I discovered, but I tend to run it lean.

I did not want to spend for a solenoid if it wasnt necessary and didn't want to turn the co2 off at night and on in the morning as it is to easy to miss doing it. I was prepared to use an alternative system using and air pump and timer set to go on at lights out and off about 30 minutes before lights on. This would outgas the co2 to prevent overnight buildup and mean the co2 did not need to be turned off. I discovered that at the rate I ran the co2 I did not need the night system at all- so I saved that money.

If money is no object and you want the greatest degree of automated control over your system, then a pH contoller and solenoid is the route to go. It will turn your co2 on and off based on the pH of the tank you choose to set it for.

As for prices- 40$ is a very good price for a regulator. A good a bubble counter and needle valve will cost about 22$-25$ each and the solenoid about 50$. I got my bc and nv at BigAls.

Other important issues:

-Needle valve- if you get the kind that screws in on the input side the odds are good you will need an adapter to step down from the regulator out to match the needle valve in. This is a short pipe type adapter you can buy for a couple of dollars at any plumbing supply place. Bring the regulator and needle valve in to be sure of the fit when you buy it.

-Tubing- Look for the co2 resistent kind. Standard air hose is damaged by co2.

-Tight seals- There are a lot of interconnection in a co2 system that must be leak free when it is hooked up. Use teflon plumber's tape on all the connections when you set the sytem up. Use it everywhere connections screw together. If you have to disconnect one, retape it.

-Testing seals- To be sure your system has no leakes after you have taped all the connections, test for leaks after you turn the system on. Do this using a soap solution (a few drops of dish detergent in an ounce or two of water). Use a small paint brush or similar device to "paint" the soap solution all around each connection. If there is a leak, your will see bubbles forming.

-Adjusting bbm- Co2 systems can be a tad finicky when first started. When you initially set up the system and use the nv get the bbm rate where you want it, don't assume it will stay there. Check it at 30-60 minutes interval a couple of times and fine tune as needed. Also do this whenever you refill your bottle.

-Keeping the co2 bottle upright- The only real danger with pressurized gas is for the bottle to fall over and break off the reglator and become an unguided missle. Be sure you have a system to hold the bottle upright in place.

-Bottle inspection- The law requires that all co2 bottles be inspected at regular intervals (several years). The date should be stamped on the bottle as to when it needs reinspection. Once that date is passed it is illegal for the bottle to be refilled until it is recertified. My Welding/gas supply place said they have to send the bottle out for this and it takes several week (2-3). That means no gas in the tank during that period.

[djlen]

I hope someone with experience with the Milwaukee set up will chime in here, because I like the look of it but for some reason I have a feeling I've gotten some negative feedback on it from other people.
I have no problems with the bells and whistles other than the solenoids, only because again, I've heard some folks have problems with them sticking and this can be troublesome. If you can find a dependable one I'd say go for it.
I would read TwoTank's comments above carefully because they are very thorough and helpful to the novice.
One thing I would add is that the last paragraph about the testing is the main reason why I recommend that people look around for used bottles and take them to filling shops that trade off your empty for a full one. That way you never have to worry about tanks needing re-certs. They won't give you one that is close to expiration.

Len

[Ghostshrimp55]

Great. Thanks for the input. Hopefully more people will post their experiences with that Milwaukee setup. I'll check out BigAls after I post and see what I can get. I'll also check out my LFS and see what kind of equipment they have for sale. They have a huge planted tank that they run CO2 on so I'm assuming they at least have some idea where to get parts locally if they don't carry them on-site.

Oh, I forgot to ask earilier, do I need some sort of powerhead or will a store-bought difuser like the one eheim makes be good enough? I'm reluctant to put the CO2 directly into my canister filter because I'm worried about creating cavitations. I also read somewhere that the reltaviely high concentration of carbonic acid at the source of the CO2 could dissolve some of the rubber fittings in the filter. Any ideas on a good way to disperse the CO2 throughout the tank?

Thanks again and anyone that has anything else to add, please do. I'd hate to screw this up.

Thanks!

[TwoTankAmin]

I have been pushing co2 through my Eheim for just over 5 years now and have not had to replace any seals or gaskets. The filter runs as well today as it did out of the box.

[Ghostshrimp55]

I have been pushing co2 through my Eheim for just over 5 years now and have not had to replace any seals or gaskets. The filter runs as well today as it did out of the box.

Wow, five years? I guess that's something I'll have to look into. Did you just place the line directly into the intake or did you have some sort of difuser directly unter the intake? Maybe just an airstone?

[Goatman]

I use the Red Sea system, and it works pretty **** flawlessly. I made a diffuser for the outflow of my Magnum 350, it's essentially the same thing they made here: http://www.gwapa.org/articles/inline_co2_reactor/

I used lava rocks as opposed to bio-balls, since they cause greater turbulence and cost a lot less. I don't use any bells and whistles besides the diffuser on my setup, since I find them to be a waste of money. I have a kH of 5 so the issues of pH crash are the least of my worries.

[TwoTankAmin]

My co2 tube is just shoved down the inside of the MaxFilter prefilter #3. I love K.I.S.S.