Novice with questions on new tank

[bob320]

Let me start by saying Im a complete novice to Aquariums here is my situation:

I`m from the UK and have a 4ft tank, an IPF4 filter and a 300w heater (visitherm).

I`ve been running my tank with heater and filter going,with no fish for a couple of days and my long term plan is to get 1 big impressive catfish, 3 or 4 large discus or simular large colourfull fish and 5 or 6 smaller colourfull more active fish.

Questions:
- Any idea on what fish I should go for the woman in the LFS says that discus are hard to keep, cannot be kept with other fish and need worming, but she doesn`t stock them.

- The heater seems to be on about 25% of the time and I`m aware that this may be costing me a bit in electricity, is this right?

- The woman in the lfs told me to chuck some food in the tank during the fishless cycle for some reason, is this OK to do?

Hope you guys can help.

[Faramir]

- Any idea on what fish I should go for the woman in the LFS says that discus are hard to keep, cannot be kept with other fish and need worming, but she doesn`t stock them.

There are limited other fish you can keep discus with. They shouldn't need worming though! They are a little delicate, but more to the point they're damned expensive, so losing one costs you.


The heater seems to be on about 25% of the time and I`m aware that this may be costing me a bit in electricity, is this right?

When it's on, about the same as a couple of light bulbs.


The woman in the lfs told me to chuck some food in the tank during the fishless cycle for some reason, is this OK to do?

You need to add nitrogenous waste somehow. Most people advocate clear ammonia, but fish food will rot and do the same thing.

[ChilDawg]

The chucking of food would be good as its breakdown would cause some response from the beneficial bacteria, but it is not necessary if you do the cycling process where ammonia is added.

If your tank comes out to be 55 gallons in US terms, I do not think that your stocking plan is reasonable. You are probably limited to a single catfish (depending on the type) or one (somewhat) large specimen fish, not a shoal of discus or anything of the like.

What temperature is your tank with the heater running? You are using a little bit of electricity, but it is important to do so if you are going to be keeping freshwater fish.

I just noticed that your heater has 300W of power. That may be excessive. If we can have all three of the measurements (length, breadth, vertical depth) for your tank, I could better tell you.

At any rate, I would suggest two heaters for such a tank, each half of the capacity needed for the full tank, as that way the heat is somewhat more uniformly spread, and if one heater locks in the "on" position, you will not overheat as rapidly. But first we need tank dimensions so that we can tell you what power those heaters should have.

Post back soon, and I hope that this started to help,

Matthew

[ChilDawg]

Faramir,
Most folks do put their Discus through a deworming regimen prior to their sale or introduction to a display tank, as they are very susceptible to worms and worm-related illnesses.

[OrionGirl]

First up, I suggest you look at the threads at the top of this forum for some more info on cycling. Cycling is much more than just moving the water through the system. The LFS's recommendation of adding some food is a start, but not the best way to go. You will need to purchase a test kit. This is a very important step, since discus can not be used to cycle a tank--they will die.

Discus can be difficult to maintain--they are certainly one of the pickier fish to have. Not impossible, but they will require more attention and maintenance than many species. Water conditions are an important part of this--pH, GH and KH are just part of what you'll want to look at. Another consideration is size--discus get arge, so you will be llimited in number. As for worming, in general, all wild caught fish are prone to having minor infestations, but captive bred specimens should not possess any parasites. Parasite infestations can be treated, but are more readily avoided by purchasing from a local breeder. You may want to find an alternate source for fish. There are also many online options to look into, once you're closer to actually having fish.

Large catfish tend to be carnivores. This means that any tankmate that can fit in their mouth will likely end up there--not a good choice when you want a pricy fish like discus. Also, many catfish will handily outgrow a 4 foot tank, and their nocturnal habits may disturb and stress the discus. You may want to consider a smaller bottom dweller in the loach family.

Small, active fish can act as dithers (ie, their presence reassures other fish that there isn't a threat around, bringing the larger fish out), or it can serve to annoy the dickens out of them, causing them to hide constantly. I am not sure which is the case with discus. There are many choices that will fit the bill--tetras of all kinds. You may want to spend some time in the species profiles section here to see what's out there to choose from.

There's no way to run a fish tank without using some electricity. I think Discus tanks are usually kept at about 80F, which would mean the heater would really be working hard in my house.

Welcome to AC--we'll do our best to help you out.

[val]

Bob, to Aquaria Central, home of the most helpful fishkeepers on the internet:)

Discus are usually not recommended as a starter fish. They are expensive, fussier to keep (I know discus keepers who do water changes daily), harder to pair with other fish, etc. I would certainly recommend that you start with another fish.

You should also get an idea of water chemistry. What kind of pH do you have, is your water soft or hard, etc. OrionGirl recommended a test kit. That would be a good idea. Most fish can live a variety of water conditions, even if outside of their recommended ranges, but the general rule is to keep the water constant. So, once we know what your water type is, we can help you choose fish that would do better in those conditions.

My standard recommendation for beginners is goldfish. Easy to keep, big and colorful, they swim at all levels of the tank, easy to feed, hardy, good across a wide range of water temps and chemistries...

Val

[bob320]

Thanks for your help guys, your certainly on the ball, I`m giving up on the discus idea.

I do like the look of the jaguar catfish though, especially as I`ve heard its not knocternal (spelling?).

my tank is approx 4ft lenght, 1.2ft width and about 1.5ft deep. Its quite big, just empty at the minute.

I`m planning on going to the lfs this saturday armed with a water sample and get a chilchid, little blue one that is supposed to grow quite big.

[Faramir]

Originally posted by ChilDawg
Faramir,
Most folks do put their Discus through a deworming regimen prior to their sale or introduction to a display tank, as they are very susceptible to worms and worm-related illnesses.

You learn something every day. But I had thought that if I bought domestic bred discus from a shop I wouldn't expect them to need worming.

[Faramir]

Standard 48" UK tank, I see. - 48x12x15. About 45 gallons.

It'd be worth knowing what this "blue cichlid" is before getting it, so that you can set the tank up accordingly.

Where in the UK are you?

[bob320]

Thanks for the suggestion but I didn`t spend £250 in tanks, filters, heaters and lights to keep goldfish.

No offence intended.

[bob320]

From Leicestershire

[ChilDawg]

Faramir: I would not expect so either, but that's what I have read.

Bob: Jaguar catfish: http://www.aquariacentral.com/species/db.cgi?db=fresh&uid=default&ID=0040&view_records=1

7.2 cu. ft. * 7.48 gallons (US)/cu. ft. ~= 54 gallons (US)

The jaguar cats kept alone would be okay but adding the cichlid would be overkill.

As for heating, a 100W in one end and a 150W in the other would be more than adequate to keep your tank heated.

[bob320]

I just walked into the lfs and said "I`ve got a 4ft tank and need all the stuff to keep freshwater fish" and I was sold the heater.

I can see you reasoning behind why 2 heaters of lower watts would have been better though.

I`m going to move it to an area of better water circulation or at least redirect my pump 2night when I get home from work.

Any ideas on a impressive looking cat that gets quite big but not too big for the tank that can be kept with other fish?

[ChilDawg]

I understand that a little too well...I usually just buy the ready-made kits, but I won't do that again for a while unless the price is extremely good.

I think that the family Doradidae (Rafaels and the like) are impressive, and a great deal of them make audible sounds so that you would have a pretty lively aquarium. They are pretty peaceful and would take kindly to any other fish within their tank as long as the aggression is low.

[OrionGirl]

Pictus are great looking fish, but they will eat small fish if available.

Please do look into the cycling threads before purchasing any fish.

[bob320]

Is it called white amonia to start the cycle? Is that available in the UK? I`ve never seen it. Might be illegal.

[OrionGirl]

I've never heard of white ammonia. Look for a generic brand of ammonia that doesn't suds up when shaken. Pretty sure it's not going to be illegal--certain purities may be, but the dilute product needed for fishless cycling shouldn't be a problem to obtain.

[Faramir]

Bob - might be best to try the cheapo places like Wilkos.