Lionfish Set-up?

[ChilDawg]

I like lionfish, and I think that one would be a cool display fish for a tank at school next year, but I need to know what an acceptable set-up would be for a dwarf one, and how well it would take to being transported back and forth every four to five months or so.

~Matthew

[MonoSebaelover]

An ideal tank set up would be at least a 30 gallon tank with either the Dwarf Zebra, Dwarf Fuzzy or Fu Manchu lions. The problem with these is most of them will hide 90 percent of the time since lions are mostly nocturnal. I don't know how well lions would handle being moved every several months. They probably wouldn't be too happy about it but either would any marine fish except for Damsels (I don't think you could annoy them to death, I do think they could annoy you to death but that is a different story!). BTW, you will want to provide a bit of live rock for them and in paticular an overhang they can hang out in. Most will not accept anything but live ghost shrimp and will take time and patience to get them to eat frozen. Hope this helps!

[ChilDawg]

It does help, but it makes me think a little harder about keeping one at school...all that transporting might make things a little difficult, but I will try my hardest to get that type of set-up together on paper and post once I have a really good idea. Thanks for the help!

~Matthew

[votek]

Becareful of where you buy your Lionfish. I hear that they are sometimes caught with cianide(sp) and usualy die a couple days or week later.

[ChilDawg]

That's a good point, votek. I was planning on buying one from Drs. Foster and Smith as they use reef-safe collection techniques. I hate the use of cyanide because it is bad for the fish caught by it and also isn't good for the ecosystem from whence the fish came.

Also, my school's director of Residential Life has put the kibosh on live rock due to its myriad of creepy crawlies, so would it be possible to do a lion tank without LR, or is this just one of those things that makes no sense to do?

~Matthew

[OrionGirl]

LR is the primary means of filtration. Does this person understand that none of the 'creepy crawlies' will survive outside the tank? You can run a tank without LR, but it means more water changes, and some extra filtration (ie, bacteria gotta' live somewhere).

[ChilDawg]

I understand that but, unfortunately, this man does not need to understand that as this is the correspondence. His letter is at the top, and, as it is a reply to mine, mine shows up below it.

Matthew,


Thanks for your queries. My guess is that the feed that you speak of is somehow freeze dried and so would not be alive in its little container. My guess is that this would be fine. Residence halls are not really appropriate places for tropical tanks such as the ones you are describing. Those seem to thrive better in more permanent locations where they don't have to be picked up and moved every few months. I would likely say that corals and live rock do not truly fall under the pet policy, but I don't think that we would welcome the snails, starfish, crabs, etc. that accompany them. Turtles and frogs quite simply have higher rates of disease spread attributed to them and my staff is not trained to be able to identify aquatic ones from those that can live both in and out of water. Rather than trying to make these distinctions, we say fish and fish only and back away form the slippery slope that any modifications would lead us down. For instance, if a policy says that only things which can live under water are allowed, a student will challenge that his/her cat can live under water with the appropriate breathing apparatus. I don't want a philosophical debate, I want students to honor the spirit of the policy. This policy puts the philosophical debate to rest. I hope that helps. I appreciate your question. Let me know if there are others. Take care. Matt


Matt,
I have a series of questions regarding aquatic animals as pets. First of all, some of us enjoy taking of fish such as seahorses, but they need to be fed "Iron Horse Feed," a small invertebrate once monthly, so I was wondering if keeping the IHF would be okay.

Also, any reefkeepers would need to be able to keep their corals, live rock, and invertebrates which come with those, but your policy prohibits this.

Third, why are aquatic frogs and turtles banned? According to the rules and regulations, it seems that this is just an arbitrary distinction, but the reasoning behind this isn't made clear. Can you please shed some light on that?

Thanks,

Matthew

[ChilDawg]

I can see why the rule would have to be strict because of disobedience of its spirit, but I can't believe that he disallowed LR based upon some of the possible stowaways (which, as you have said, can't really live out of water).

[VoodooChild]

I believe you could pull it off Chil just cause I think you know your fish pretty darned well, but I'd be more worried about the tank finally just bottoming out. As far as LR goes, just get some sub par stuff. Check it over for living things, remove the anenomes, and you should be set. Coralline algaes and feather dusters are "plants" and surely they can't escape. He'll never know that those rocks are alive if they look like they just have algae on them. At least none of the CA's here would.

[ChilDawg]

Thanks, Voodoo, for the compliment! :D

So, now, while I was doing my research on fish-only systems, I have come across two different definitions. One is to say that little to no LR is used (as this would obviously harbor non-fish inverts), and one is to say that the major filtration on a fish-only would be LR/Protein Skimmer combos. Which is correct?

Also, how would I go about transporting LR at the end of next year when I have to move out? I know that I can't leave it in the tank, but could I use buckets with SW to bring it home?

If I ended up not going the LR route (not my first choice to try this without LR, but it might be the only choice for this particular tank), what exactly would I do to maintain bacteria? Would I throw in some Southdown, sift the sand every so often, and run a skimmer and a trickle?

Thanks in advance,

Matthew

[OrionGirl]

It depends on how much work you want for yourself. The more duties that can be assigned to occupants (ie, hermit crabs, star fish, snails and bacteria), the less work you have each week. If you make sure to feed foods the lion can eat all of in gulps, this will minimize the need for the clean up crew. For example, small chunks of fish, or a whole thawed cube of food vrs a mushed up cube.

LR can be moved in buckets of water, this is how it's shipped. As long as the shipping isn't too long--ie, less than 24 hours, the bacteria should survive easily.

To maintain bacteria, you will want a shallow bed of sand (lacking the critters, a deep sand bed won't work--those worms and such are an important part of a working sand bed). I would get a HOB filter with a large compartment that can be used for bio-balls and pre-filtered to prevent large particulate build up in the bio balls. This prefilter will need lots of attention, or it will get nasty and start increasing nitrates. The bacteria for nitrates won't develop in your system, so you'll need to use water changes for control, much like in a FW system. I would buy some LR rubble to kick start the system-no hitch hikers, but plenty of happy bacteria, moderately decorative.

[ChilDawg]

How much LR rubble would I buy for a 20-30 gallon? I know the lb./gallon rule for LR, but I also know that there is a slight difference--no sand-sifters, and a small-enough system that the tank would be a little crowded with a lb./gallon.

Would a sponge be an adequate prefilter, or do I need something slightly more sophisticated?

Which brand (or brands) of filter would you recommend for the tank?

I will have another post later because I have another series of questions, but I have to formulate them first...Thanks in advance for your replies!

~Matthew

[OrionGirl]

I'd get 5-10 pounds of rubble, if you'll just be using it to seed the tank with bacteria. It won't be enough to provide complete filtration by itself, and in a a smaller amount, won't create pockets where detritus can build up, or dead water areas. You could always get more, and stack it up, as long as it was stable and wouldn't collapse on the fish.

Yep, a sponge will be the best choice, but you could easily use any thin nylon mesh. Probably cheaper, especially if you by in bulk (pantyhose, that is). Instead of cleaning them, you could just throw away the gunked up one and replace with a new one.

I would probably go with an Aquaclear, because I know they are reliable, have a nice media compartment that would accept a variety of media, and are easy to maintain (cleaning the powerhead the runs it is a snap!). They also offer the option to install a surface skimmer, which will help prevent the oily surface often noted in aquariums. They're not as costly as some other options, especially if you shop Big Al's! I think I got my last 2 for about $30 total, which is $6 less than just one would be from my LFS.

Have you looked at some of the other options for a tank like this, fish wise? Check out anglers--there are some stunning colors out there, just amazing, and they really do better in a small, species only system. As soon as I get my stepped 55 stand built, I am going to find some horizontal space in my house for a nano-tank with a single angler.

[ChilDawg]

Unfortunately, all that transportation when it comes to tank materiel wouldn't work too well for me, now that I think about it...but I may still try for that tank because it sounds pretty cool...and I am also looking at anglers later today, OG...that's a good suggestion!

Here is another question along the line of the originally proposed tank: is there any way to lock shut a tank? My roomie is going to be captain for his cross country team next year, and we'll get a whole bunch of recruits coming by are room. Some of them might have a little too much fun during their stay, and I need to keep them outta the lion's den!

Also, would elbow-length rubber gloves be appropriate for use while cleaning the tank?

[VoodooChild]

I would definantly do the rubber gloves, although having a scar from a sting would be pretty cool ("hey ladies, check this out"). Of course, I've only been stung by bees, and I suppose a lion's sting could be pretty excrutiating, so I've heard. And that whole people over at the house thing is why I don't have parties at my house:rolleyes: Besides, if for some reason someone got stung, there's a lawsuit. Not like it's hard enough paying for school...

[ChilDawg]

I'm allergic to beestings, so, since the lion's sting is similar, I don't think that I want to play games with getting stung, but it would make for a pretty cool scar! :)

Any way to lock the tank lid, or should I put the lion in my room instead of having it in the suite area?

[OrionGirl]

I would keep it in your room. There are a few ways to lock a tank, but I wouldn't trust them. Keep in mind that while the lion may pose a threat to people, people pose a much bigger threat to the lion. Too many people see predatory fish as cheap entertainment, and will throw goldfish and such in, just to watch the lion eat them. In the long run, this can have serious consequences for the health of the fish and of the tank.

[ChilDawg]

Good points, OG...I'll have to tell my roomie that the 30 gallon is going in our room...I wonder what he'll say to that?

Besides, if I ever want to show off the lion, I can still get there, so I guess that I don't see why more access would really be necessary!

Okay, so with that having been said, I need to know a little about the water which I would be using. Do I need to get R/O, and then reconstitute it, or could I work with what the township has available for me?

If I need to go R/O, what type of unit should I use, and how long would I need to hook it up to get enough water for a five-six gallon change?

[VoodooChild]

I don't know about the units, but you could always test your water first to see if you need one. Unless your phosphates are high, I probably wouldn't worry about it. Only really bad town treatment facilities have nitrates in their water.

[ChilDawg]

Hmm...his reaction to the fish going in the room was less than kind, so I think that I might have to give up this dream (for school anyway...nobody ever said anything about having it at home...)

If I am not bounded by the constraints of my ORL here, should I go for all-out LR?

OG, you have cats...do they bother the lion at all, or do you cordon off the room in which the lion lives?

[OrionGirl]

Actually, the cats ignore the saltwater tanks completely. They enjoy all the FW setups, and one is particularly fond of the frog, but the SW stuff is mostly too high for them. They can't get into any of the SW tanks from the top--heck, I have to use a chair to do more than feed. Top of the 65's sits at about 5'8.