Raise puffer in a 32 gallon tank?

[isaac newton]

Planing to buy 6 green spotted puffer (brakish) and 3 figure 8's.. My tank big enough???? by the way, how do u tell the difference between males and females?

[ChilDawg]

I don't think that your tank would be anywhere near big enough, as those are some pretty territorial and nippy fish to which you are referring. At this time, I do not believe that there are any known obvious morphological differences between the sexes of either species, so it is kind of a "grab bag" deal as to whether or not you get the right sexes for breeding or not.

[RTR]

Sorry, not even with a zero after the 32, as in 320. Also, figure-8s and GSPs are not a good bet together long-term.

[cdawson]

Originally posted by RTR
Sorry, not even with a zero after the 32, as in 320. Also, figure-8s and GSPs are not a good bet together long-term.

I guess it depends on the animal, I've got a 3 inch GSP and a 2 inch f-8 that sleep side by side.

[OrionGirl]

A 3-inch and 2-inch fish are not mature. Their behavior as juveniles should not be used for determining long term behavior.

[isaac newton]

hmmmm ok... Is there any species i can care for in a 30 gallon tank.. (EXCULDING THE DWARF PUFFER.. SEEN EM IN PETSMART. TO SMALL). Concluding from the size they get to be.. Im aiming toward 4 figure 8's (with planted tank)... In conclusion to you statements, it seems the green spotted puffer is a bit to big and agressive.

[andruboz]

maybe one arrowhead in a thirty. but it totally lacks the cute factor you get from all the other puffers mentioned. it is basically a potatoe with razor sharp teeth that kills as often as you let it.

[RTR]

Figure-8s are BW, not FW, planting is an issue. And a 32 gallon tank really is not spacious enough for a group of them. You may get away with it while they are young, but as they mature there are likely to be problems and fatalities.

[isaac newton]

well then what is the ideal tank size for 4 puffers?

[ChilDawg]

GSPs and F8Ps? At least 120 gallons...and their territoriality might make that a little bit of a challenge.

[cdawson]

Originally posted by OrionGirl
A 3-inch and 2-inch fish are not mature. Their behavior as juveniles should not be used for determining long term behavior.

true enough, even though my gsp seems to be developing a bit of a temper during feeding time.

[isaac newton]

Wow a 120 gallon tank for 4 fish! Any of u guys attempt to breed these.. When they spawn and now u have 4 with 50 frys where do u put all of em?
Hmmm.. Well it seems that i only have 2 choices.. Ill go with the dwarf puffer... In a 30 gallon setup planted, what is the ideal number i should have in the tank??? What seems to be their adult size (i.e about the size of a neon?)? How many dwarf puffers per gallon?? If the puffer gets about to be the size of a neon, ill go with em.. They just seem so small when being sold..


P.S. Also is it possable to mix these with neons guppies and crabs?

[RTR]

Isaac - you seem to have difficulty getting the message: For puffers, any puffers, inches per gallon or any such scale used for small simple schooling fish does not apply. Period. Ever. Under no circumstances. Puffers are predators. Puffers are extremely well equiped to bite and crush snails, crabs, shrimp, clams, etc, do you think any fish at all could not be bitten, harrassed, and/or killed by just about any puffer? And if the fish is a much larger predator than the puffer and it eats the puffer, then the fish that ate the puffer is dead anyway - puffers carry toxins, very potent toxins.

Dwarf puffers reach about an inch each. Experience has shown that a single male and 2-3 female dwarf puffers can be kept together in a heavily planted ten gallon tank. In a 30 you might get away with 2 males, but one may still kill the other. Up to 10 females might be kept.

Neons are likely to be nipped and potentially killed. Guppies the same. You might get away with it, but don't try unless you are willing for the neons or guppies to be sushi. And they will eat the puffer eggs anyway - I thoight you wanted to breed the fish? You do not mix fish in a breeding tank, puffer or otherwise.

Is that clear enough? Puffers are not, never have been, and never will be a community fish.

[andruboz]

one thing i can tell from this thread is: pufferpunk must be on vacation. she always has good input on puffer questions..
hope she's having fun.

[isaac newton]

Gooey No RTR i understand your clearly, i just have a hard time believing you! When doing the research on sites it seems to a conflict. Its either you don’t know what your talking about or the some of the sites ive visited don’t know what there talking about or the other forums i visit dont know what their talking about. Look at basically what your saying.


"hi you have a 150 gallon tank right?"
"yeah i do, i keep puffers."
"really how much?"
"4 puffers"
"you breed them?"
"yes i do"
"what do u do with em?"
"i gotta toss them because i have to have a 1000000 gallon tank to house all my fry when they grow"

I really find it hard to believe that a 30 gallon tank can’t house 4 fish and according to the posts and you. you state (or others) that you need a 100 gallon tank to take have 4-6, 4inch long swimming balls of toxic gooe and will kill each other if smaller! I find it also astonishing that I hear stories about people actually breeding them! According to post you must have gigantic tanks just to house 6 of them and when you breed then you can only keep about 4 (if you buy a 100 gallon tank) and toss the rest away or give them up!!

http://www.geocities.com/stella16091609/How_to_Care_for_Puffers.html

So RTR I do understand what you’re saying and i can read... After visiting various sites on the web and listing to your comments and with my logic find it hard to believe you.

[andruboz]

what you are hoping is that the board agrees that you should spend good money on say 4 puffers and everything will work out fine. the reality is you will start with 4 and end up with some number less than four. you just cant make posters say its ok to kill a couple as long as a few live. people on this board truly care about fish.

try predatoryfish.net. they have a more liberal approach to puffer habitat. but then again, a bunch of guys on that board mostly think their fish are cool at feeding time when the carnage starts. aquaria central is more about fish 24/7 then just at chowtime.

so you live in a free country. you can do what you wanna do. just dont expect everybody to approve of it. heck, theres a very slight chance you'll be right and you'll have puffer bliss in your tank. in my opinion, puffers have mucho personality. to have one or two means the puffs will interact with you. to have 4 means they will be too worried about the other puffs to establish a fun relationship with the human.

i didnt find much on the geocities site that proved your point. and worrying about breeding is counting chickens [or puffers] waaaaay before they've hatched.

[goldfish freak]

It is interesting that you should mention some of those points. Just to inform you RTR is very knowledgeable when it comes to puffers and their proper care, he has been keeping various types of pufffers for over 15 years. There is alot of misinformation on the net and also some in print with regards to these fish. Many of the people that have these sites have only kept puffers for a few years or less. That one you posted a link to is one of them. A few years of experience is really not sufficient to determine what is best for this type of fish. A puffer's tempermant can drastically change from juvenile to adult. It apprears that most people only have experience keeping these fish as juveniles.

[isaac newton]

Im not hoping the board agrees on what i say.. Thats why im asking varous sources about puffers... I just and a bit confused at all this information out there then someone saying that "You dont seem to be getting the point" Well i do understand the point! There are many sources out their that seem to be contradicting what you guys are saying, via the link up there. I believe i heard a statement, 3 gallons for ever inch of puffer? Hmmmm then i come here and you say that you need a 100 gallon tank to house 4 puffers! Hmmm i sence conflict

[GEV83]

Look I my self never had puffers but many people know puffers have differant personalities just like cichlids do. Well some will get along some wont. By nature puffers are not schooling fish and have massive teath for a reason. You want to put 16" of fish in a 32gal. I highly disagree with the fact that 4 would get along in a 32gal. I also dont believe the comment of a 320 gal what ahve you been smoking. IMO you might get away with 2 but that would even be a risk. Either way you go its a risk. If you want a puffer and got money for a bigger tank get a 125-150gal and get yourself a Nile Puffer. But if your looking for some to get along then you most deffinately need a bigger tank. Thats my 2 cents. Learned alot from my uncles puffer even though it wasnt mine you could learn alot about them just by looking at them.

[RTR]

FYI, I've been keeping puffers about 40 years now, and am still the only person I know who keeps them routinely into their late teens- although I have hopes for the current crop to last longer because I know better now how to handle them. They should outlast most Cichlids and I believe can get up there with Clown Loaches.

Think what you want about breeding them - it is highly specialized and other than the dwarfs is not an easy deal, largely because most folks do not give then sufficent room, proper diets, or high enough water quality to ever mature much less breed. Counting on the web sources for puffer life-cycle care is a pipe dream.

Go for it, Isaac. Set your 32 with six puffers. It is a free country and it is your dime. Come back in 3-5 years and discuss your results. I'll be waiting to hear, but I hate sad stories about fish.

[goldfish freak]

Wow! 40 years! I did not know it was that long RTR. For some reason I was under the impression that it was 15-20 years. I stand corrected. I have a question about green spotted puffers. At what age are they considered adults?

[I8b4u2]

Trust RTR, between him and Pufferpunk you're not going to find any better authority IMHO on pufferfish. If you want to see a few stories on the possible aggression of even the smallist of Puffers click the this linkTiny Terrors (http://forum.tropicalaquariums.info/index.php?act=ST&f=28&t=1751)

[RTR]

GF - the 15-20 years is how long most of the common puffers live in captivity in decent care. GSPs in top conditions and care can reach 5-6" in a captive year, but that is unusual, 2-3 years is more common and probably represents sexual maturity as this is about when territoriality seems to hit its peak and level out at steady state. They are very like the large Cichlids in this. The problem with most puffers is that we don't have the best habitat data on them. Especially the BW puffers such as GSPs, the collection sites are not where the adults are found. Their nomenclature is complete hash - perhaps the genome work being done will prompt the taxonomists to reclassify the whole group - they need it badly.

That said, I have seen GSPs that after several captive years are still at sale size - pathetic. These fish do stunt easily. In poor quality water (they are messy fish) or inappropriate water they are very susceptible to disease or parasites also, along with color fading.

[isaac newton]

"I would recommend no less than 2 gallons of tank capacity per inch of puffer"

http://www.geocities.com/stella16091609/How_to_Care_for_Puffers.html

quote from that site.... Correct?????

8*4(figure 8)=32????

[RTR]

Isaac - let's see, that writer has kept puffers for 3 years now (about 1/3 of a normal lifespan for these fish), so must be really knowledgeable, right?

I told you in my prior post to do what you will - it is your tank, your money.

I don't think I have anything else to offer you since you obviously know all you need to know about puffers. Good luck to you.

[goldfish freak]

That is where I must have got the 15-20 years from. Thanks for the reply as well.