Help! Low pH

[evster]

Hi everyone. First off let me say that this place has been an immense help for me since I've found it. I've been keeping fish for 5 years now, but only recently when I moved and had to set up a new aquarium did I take the time to do it "right".

That said... I now have a 10G tank that has been running for around 2 months and my pH is consistantly extremely low. It comes up as 6.0 or below on my AP test kit. The pH of my tap water is around 7.6. Even when I do a 20% water change, I only get a pH reading of about 6.2 the day after.

I do have 2 nice pieces of driftwood in the tank which I got from Petco. I have read that this will lower the pH, but I don't think it would have this large of an effect. The driftwood was soaking in a tank st the store when I bought it, but I didn't know that I was supposed to soak it myself for a couple days until after it had been in my tank for some time.

The tank has some live plants. A few betta bulbs which have grown in very nicely and some anacharis which I added just yesterday. I have 4 zebra danios which seem to be thriving in there. Here are the reading from the tests I just did:
pH - 6.0 or less (off the charts)
ammonia - .25-.5 (this is because I threw away my filter before I learned I shouldn't do that and I now have a "mini-cycle" to overcome)
nitrate - approx. 40
Nitrite - 0

So my question is... is this something I should even worry about? The pH level is holding steady, which from what I've read on here is more important than a perfect number. Should I take out one of the 2 pieces of driftwood and see if it makes a difference? When I do decide to add more fish, will they take to this low pH? Please help!
Thanks!

[CaptnDan]

The general rule is a steady wrong pH is better than a fluctuating pH.

That said, I would be a bit concerned with a figure below 6.0

You tested your tap water, but have you tried letting the tap water sit out before testing it? Give that a shot... it will most likely drop in pH, test it after 24 hours, and again after 48 hours and see if it changes, and you will know what your true tap water pH is.

You could try boiling the driftwood. If it makes the water look like tea when you boil it, it is still releasing tannins (tannic acid). Try to remove as much tannin as you can by boiling.

Whatever you do, do not use any chemical that promises to raise oro balance your pH. They cause way more problems than they solve.

[redtailfool]

It could be a culmination of things : tannic acids from the drift are lowering your ph , organic wastes from the fish and plants .. are often do you clean your substrate? water changes?

[evster]

Thanks guys. I will let my tap water sit out overnight and test it again. I never thought of that. So far I've noticed no discoloration of my tank water with the driftwood in there, but I will try boiling a piece and see if it causes any discoloration.

I have been doing water changes at least once a week (if not more) since the tank got started so I don't think that's the problem. Also when I do my water changes, I treat the new tap water going into the tank with Ammo Lock. That's the only time I will use chemicals in my tank.

[Blueiz]

Thanks guys. I will let my tap water sit out overnight and test it again. I never thought of that. So far I've noticed no discoloration of my tank water with the driftwood in there, but I will try boiling a piece and see if it causes any discoloration.

I have been doing water changes at least once a week (if not more) since the tank got started so I don't think that's the problem. Also when I do my water changes, I treat the new tap water going into the tank with Ammo Lock. That's the only time I will use chemicals in my tank.
Why are you treating your new water with ammo lock?


Using a bit of crushed coral will raise your ph. However, if the fish you have now are doing fine with the ph as it is, i wouldnt worry about adjusting it. My ph is also at 6 or below according to my test kit. I have added crushed coral to my tank for my snails. This raised the ph to ~7.2. I also have a large amount of driftwood.

Blue

[evster]

The ammo lock was to dechlorinate and remove the ammonia from the tap water to make it suitable for the fish. That's what I was told to use at the LFS. Should I be using something else to treat my tap water?

[Blueiz]

Ammo Lock is normal used to lock out ammonia during a fishy cycle, etc. Its not generally used as a routine water conditioner. Its really yoru choice, however there are cheaper water coditioners out there , such as prime.

Blue

[evster]

update: I boiled one of my pieces of driftwood for about an hour tonight and the water turned a very tea-like color so it looks like the wood had a lot of tannins to release.

I was going to do the other piece but my bamboo shrimp is hiding deep in a crevice and won't come out so it looks like it will have to wait until another day.

I will post my pH levels again after both pieces of wood have been boiled and I've done a water change. Thanks for your help everyone!

[CaptnDan]

Sounds like you might be on the right track there.

Just curious, but have you tested for and found ammonia in your tap water?

[evster]

Well I boiled my second piece of drifwood tonight so we'll see how it goes.

And yes CaptnDan...I have tested my tap water for ammonia and I got a reading of between .25-.5 (hard to tell because the colors are so similar).

Also tested the pH of some tap water that had sat out for 24 hrs and got a reading of around 7.6.

[CaptnDan]

And yes CaptnDan...I have tested my tap water for ammonia and I got a reading of between .25-.5 (hard to tell because the colors are so similar)Yeah, .25 and .50 are pretty darned close on the color chart.

I'm just curious as to why there is so much ammonia in the tap water. The only thing I can think of would be that maybe the city uses chloramine, and it's breaking down before it gets to you. Do you live a long distance from the water treatment plant? (I am assuming that you have city water, not a well)

If that was my water, I would seriously consider contacting the water dept and asking them to come out and test it. It shouldn't do that.

If you use one of the water conditioners that also neutralizes ammonia, it will make it OK for your fish.

But you also have that coming out of every faucet in the house... A whole house water filter on the main line coming in could remove that...

(Yes, I do work in the water treatment industry, and no, I am not trying to sell you anything - I'm a technician, not in sales) :)

[evster]

To be honest I have no idea where our water treatment plant is located. I live in San Diego, where we have notoriously foul-tasting tap water. Perhaps in part because of the ammonia levels??

At any rate, it has never bothered me. And as long as treating my water means it doesn't both the fish then everything is ok. :)

In a different but related topic, should I be concerned about my high nitrate levels? Again those tests have very similar colors for 40 and 80, and my tests have been showing somewhere in that range for the past couple weeks. Is that part of the cycling process that will normally settle down?

[CaptnDan]

To be honest I have no idea where our water treatment plant is located. I live in San Diego, where we have notoriously foul-tasting tap water. Perhaps in part because of the ammonia levels??

At any rate, it has never bothered me. And as long as treating my water means it doesn't both the fish then everything is ok. :)

In a different but related topic, should I be concerned about my high nitrate levels? Again those tests have very similar colors for 40 and 80, and my tests have been showing somewhere in that range for the past couple weeks. Is that part of the cycling process that will normally settle down?I would definitely treat tapwater for the ammonia, for the fish's sake. I imagine the ammonia is contributing to the taste somewhat.

Also, the Nitrates definitely need to come down. I don't like to see mine get as high as 20ppm. I try to guesstimate 15ppm as a top for that. I would like to go lower, and until recently did so, but now I have a lot of plants and they need some nitrates.

Nitrates are the final stage of the Nitrogen cycle, and they are controlled by water changes. They won't go away on their own. Nitrates aren't going to be toxic to the fish like ammonia and nitrite, but at high levels and for a long time, they will cause stress - and stress kills fish.

I would not call this an emergency, as in drop everything and do a water change right now.... But I would classify it as "Urgent - Water change ASAP". I would do a change a day until the levels get down.

I think you have some odd things going on because of the way you got into the mini-cycle, with the tossing of the filter media and all. There was still some beneficial bacteria in the tank, just that most of it went with the filter change. So you had some of the ammonia making the full cycle, just not enough bacteria to do all of it. I bet this doesn't happen again, eh? We live and learn.

[evster]

update:

I've boiled all my driftwood and got a new plant (some anubias). I've been doing regular water changes, though not every day. Its been varying between 25-50% every couple of days.

These are the latest readings that I took last night:

pH: still 6.0 or less!
ammonia: approx: 1.0 (still recovering from throwing my established filter media away. stupid me!)
nitrite: 0
nitrate: approx. 30

I am guessing that my driftwood left a lot of little woodchunks and tiny bits in the gravel that are still producing tannins, because when I used a gravel vac in that area a lot of that stuff was sucked up. I set up a new 20G tank last week that's now cycling and the ph for that reads 7.6 or higher (which is what my pH is out of the tap.) Obviuosly something in my 10G is driving the pH down.

I've also had some brown algea start to grow. I only keep my lights on for 8 hours a day and only have 1.5 wpg. This hasn't become a severe problem yet and from my research its normal for newly set up tanks so I'm not too worried about that.

My plan for now is to do a 25% water change every day for the next week or so and see what happens. Any other advice is much welcomed. Thanks!

[echoofformless]

Uch, I am sad I didn't catch this before you boiled the driftwood. That will only serve to weaken it and shorten its usable time.

The tannins from the driftwood are actually good for the tank if you're keeping acid-loving species. They won't bring it down as drastically as what you are experiencing. Even my blackwater tanks, which are loaded with driftwood and utilize peat filtration never go below 6.3 or so.

Your problem is related to hardness and buffering.

http://www.drhelm.com/aquarium/chemistry.html

[evster]

Thanks for the tip echoofformless. I read through the article you linked but I think I'm still a little confused at the moment. I suppose I should start by testing my kH and gH (which I have never done before). Is there a certain test kit you would recommend?

Also, I was reading in another thread about adding a small amount of baking soda with each water change in a situation like this. Would that be a good idea? What about some crushed coral? Thanks for all your help.

[echoofformless]

I would suggest to first determine the water chemistry, then take the necessary steps to correct the problem once you know exactly what is causing the situation.

Both the crushed coral and sodium bicarbonate are effective, though the crush coral is far more safe and gentle.

Are your fish doing okay?

[Omega]

Should I be using something else to treat my tap water?Sounds like your KH isn't high enough to buffer.

Try baking soda.

[evster]

Fish seem to be doing very well. Only 4 zebra danios and a bamboo shrimp in there at the moment. Brown algae problem seems to be gaining strength on my plant leaves but that's about it.

I have AP test kits for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, and pH, but I don't think I've seen ones for kH and gH. Do they make one? Which kit should I buy?
Thanks!

[Omega]

Fish seem to be doing very well. Only 4 zebra danios and a bamboo shrimp in there at the moment. Brown algae problem seems to be gaining strength on my plant leaves but that's about it.

I have AP test kits for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, and pH, but I don't think I've seen ones for kH and gH. Do they make one? Which kit should I buy?
Thanks!If you're worried about pH then only KH would really matter. They make test kits for both.