Blue Ram Question [Archive]

justintoxicated

11-01-2006, 8:55 PM

Hi I don't know if this would be a good idea but I have been toying with teh idea of adding a blue ram to my 20G community.

Stocking
8 Galaxy Micro Rasbora
2 Celbe Rainbows
2 Papendetta Furcata (blue eye family as well)
3 Honey Gouramis (only 1 currently)
3 Otto's
Some Adult Mystery Snails.

I don't have any rocks but I do have driftwood and live plants.

Thing is I am adding crushed coral to the watter to keep my PH from crashing. Tt stays between 7.2 and 6.8 though even witht eh addition of crushed coral. Now Mystery Snails like Hard water and these guys like soft so I'm wondering if they are really compatable with what I already have.

Is this fish compatable? Do I need to do a GH test?

ewurm

11-01-2006, 9:11 PM

Yes, do a gH test. Rams not only like soft water, they require it. Also, I would get a pair, male and female.

justintoxicated

11-01-2006, 9:41 PM

it is about 223.5-238 (15 - 16 drops turns it test kit green) after a 50% water change, but my Ph does drop after the Co2 takes over. GH won't be affected by CO2 right?

Guess the answer is no I cannot keep them :( LFS has same water supply as well.

plah831

11-01-2006, 9:45 PM

Depends on the ram. I do belive captive-bred ones can do well in hard water.

As far as I know, KH (which is a component of GH) is not actually used up by CO2. It just represents the carbonate present in your water, which will naturally resist pH fluxes due to carbon dioxide injection.

justintoxicated

11-01-2006, 9:51 PM

So it might be worth a shot? But would my tank be overstocked?

The one I had my eyes on was a Long Finned Blue, I'm not sure how to distinguish male from female.

debaric

11-01-2006, 9:52 PM

VERY few fish require a certain pH, your ph just needs to stay very steady for more sensitive species

justintoxicated

11-01-2006, 9:55 PM

VERY few fish require a certain pH, your ph just needs to stay very steady for more sensitive species

Yes but I hear they need soft water. Soft water usualy also results in lower PH. So does injecting Co2 reduce water hardness or not really?

FreakIndeed

11-01-2006, 10:10 PM

I don't think injecting Co2 affects water hardness. I've been told by multiple sources that the big concern about water hardness, and even PH to a degree, has more to do with wild caught fish than tank bred. Chances are great that the Ram from your local fish store was born, cared for, and raised in water very close to what you have.

I contemplated getting Discus in the future, but I have harder water and a PH of around 7.2. I thought that would be totally off and that a Discus could not live or thrive in water like that. That was until I saw that there was someone less than a few miles away from me with over thirty tanks in his basement, breeding Discus like weeds with just the plain old tap water I use!!!

I'm no pro but, it seems to me that fish are pretty adaptable. They just need stability.

My local Petsmart keeps the African Cichlids in the same exact water as the Angel Fish & Tetras. It's all part of one water system. I asked the employee how long the fish have to stay in water that isn't really their type. She shrugged her shoulder and pointed up to a tank of Africans that were pretty big and said, "We've had those for months!". LOL

justintoxicated

11-01-2006, 11:18 PM

Well I can get something else instead if it's just simply not a good idea too I jsut don't want to be overstock I am after all already breaking the snail per gallon rule for brigs...

I like this fish too!
http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_Display.cfm?pCatId=2525 but don't know much about them...

ewurm

11-01-2006, 11:28 PM

justintoxicated

11-01-2006, 11:33 PM

I have very hard water, gH over 450. I use RO water from my local lfs for my Ram Tank.

Does it crash your PH even more when you inject Co2?

It almost seems like a double sided blade, your supposed to have lots of plants but also have soft water?

ewurm

11-01-2006, 11:40 PM

Does it crash your PH even more when you inject Co2?

It almost seems like a double sided blade, your supposed to have lots of plants but also have soft water?

I use a buffer, Seachem Neutral Regulator, to buffer the water against pH swings. This is a highly planted tank. I also use Kent Freshwater Plant supplement to add the necessary Iron and Potassium for the plants to thrive. I also have a sizable piece of malaysian driftwood, for cover and to provide tannins to simulate the natural SA environment.

justintoxicated

11-02-2006, 12:40 AM

I'm using crushed coral as a PH buffer, but my driftwood is a piece of ADA (I still can't believe I paid $25 for it lol) but It has not released any noticable Tannins. What is SA? This would be the only Chilid in my tank so I'm starting to think it was a bad idea to get one :(

Oh and I jut found out I still have 4 ottos, I just had not sceen 4 at once for months!

CaptnDan

11-02-2006, 2:03 AM

Soft water usualy also results in lower PH. So does injecting Co2 reduce water hardness or not really?Not exactly... Ever tested the pH of RO water? Should be 7.0 - Neutral.

Soft water though, by definition lacks buffers to prevent pH drops. No buffers, plus CO2 injection = pH drops. But teh CO2 will not alter the hardness (GH).

My water will test 0gpg on a liquid test kit, I have to use an electronic TDS meter to find out what it is. It runs about 7 to 11 ppm. Since I don't want to worry about pH crashes, I use crushed coral in my filter, in all my tanks. It keeps me steady between 7.0 and 7.2 on the pH. When I do a water change, the new water is at 7.0 so adding 20% even if the tank is at 7.2 makes very little difference.

In the days of wild caught fish being the norm, it was far more important to try to duplicate the natural environment as closely as possible. Any more, it's rarely necessary. Keep things stable and you will be fine.

The snails like hard water because they need the calcium for shell building. Most of what you are seeing in a hardness test is calcium, or calcium based compounds.

Possible stocking issue: Popondetta_furcata are recommended to be kept in groups of 6 or more, and require medium hard alkaline water. But they are really cool-looking fish! Rather than Rams, I think I would go for some more of these guys... (I looked them up - this is not personal experience)

Rams can get territorial, especially when breeding.

If you look around, you can find information that says anything from hard alkaline to soft acidic on the water conditions.

They also have a reputation for not being very hardy and having short life spans.

Actually, I think the Rams wouldn't do that well in this tank, with the stocking you have now. YMMV

CaptnDan

11-02-2006, 2:07 AM

What is SA?SA = South American

justintoxicated

11-02-2006, 3:11 AM

Thanks I guess i will skip them then. I do plan to get another Popondetta_furcata but only one..

They don't have the colors like the Ram, I thought it would be a good centerpiece fish (even if I had to setup a cave for them... I'm still considering them but maybe something else like the fish I posted a link to above would be a better match in my tank?

I'm a little confused still wether or not I would have to use RO water to keep Ram's alive.

I asked on this forum and everyone thoguht it was a celeb's so I bought some, they do look similar, but different... When I got home I realized my mistake. I asked around and they said the Popondetta_furcata's will school with Celebs anyways (they are both in the blue eye family). They do hang out together so I think thats all that counts. So right now there is a school of 4 blue eyes, just different species so I don't believe I need to add more as badly as you are thinking.

On another note:
My Guppy likes to school with the Celebs as well, well he keeps trying to mate with them, they don't seem to mind but it does look kinda funny, especialy since he seems to be going after the boy! DOH! The Popondetta_furcata would school with the guppies a bit when he was younger but then he started chasing them around when he matured (all guppies were moved to another tank except for the one boy I just can't catch!)

They are after all only in a 20 gallon, so theres not alot of places to swim around in a school anyways. I do see some good schooling action with the micro rasbora Galaxies, they are awesome fish!

CaptnDan

11-02-2006, 3:21 AM

They do hang out together so I think thats all that counts. So right now there is a school of 4 blue eyes, just different species so I don't believe I need to add more as badly as you are thinking.I didn't grasp that they were the same family... I believe you are absolutely correct about this.

joelfish

11-02-2006, 3:22 PM

Rams do great in hard water. However, they are sensitive to stress and water quality issues. I would not put them in that tank just due to the numbers of other fish. You may have read that they need soft water for breeding and this is very true - their eggs won't hatch in hard water. However, I have had them spawn like crazy in hard water.

CO2 injection won't change the hardness of your water. It may change the pH if your water is already somewhat soft.

I agree with dbaric that sensitive fish need stable conditions most. Aging your water is important (aerate for 24 hrs.) before adding to the tank.

hth,
windsurfer.

justintoxicated

11-02-2006, 5:24 PM

I fill my tanks with a python so aerating wter is not an option.

However my water is very clearn, I have to add Nitrate for my plants because they suck it all up. I don't think the bioload is really that high definately not enough to support the plants, those Galaxys only reach a couple cm each, they are really small.