ammonia converting bacteria

[roghib]

Does anyone have any idea how long will the ammonia eating bacteria and nitrite eating bacteria stay alive without new ammonia in tank once your tank reaches zero ammonia? In essence how long does it take to starve em lil guys?

[jm1212]

i would say at the most a day if there is no source of ammoina betore they start to die off

[roghib]

egad...ok thnx have to leave for 72 hours and really didnt wanna overdose tank...in the middle of fishless cycle and hate to have things even get more screwed up

[wataugachicken]

better to overdose than starve, maybe add 50% more ammonia than usual.

[WeeNe858]

2-3 weeks before they star to eat themselves. but are you cycling or ...?....

if you are cycling.. you can add some fishes and add in SuperBac.. its new... and it works.. that helps cycle your tank and get it ready.

[wataugachicken]

he just said he was in the middle of a fishless cycle. . . . i've never heard of ammonia-converting bacteria cannibalizing each other - do you have a link to back that up?

what exactly is "Superbac"?

[WeeNe858]

Yeah its still new.. just got introduced to my store about 2 months ago. The bacteria feed off of its 'body fat" just like we would over time (2-3 weeks). and as for the site.. ill look for it.. but i can garrentee you it'll come up in lfs soon enough :].

[Reddog80p]

SuperBac is that another companys version of Biospira?

Here's what I found on it.

http://www.naturbac.com/products.html

Click products then aquarium, It claims it's live bacteria. But does not need to to be refrigerated.

[Omega]

Looks like more of a Cycle type of product than it does a BioSpira type product. (If that makes sense?)

I've also never heard of nitrifying bacteria eating themselves or using up "fat" when they've starved for 2-3 weeks.

[don_juan]

I too have used Superbac and it has changed my life.

Actually, yes bacteria eat off of their own body mass and go anorexic over time if they don't eat and aren't with a crap after about a week and a half. Also, living bacteria don't have to be refrigerated unless they are densly concentrated like BiospiraAnd they have the wrong bacteria anyway so they don't count.

If superbac doesn't work, then I have no idea how I did a 200 gallon saltwater in 4 days and had it about full on the 5th and it be so flourishing a month later. Evidently, their bacteria are the right ones. For saltwater anyway I haven't tried their freshwater blend. Has anyone?

Superbac has really put the other guys on the ropes. Oh, and you get a shelf life to go by unlike the biospira that you end up buying dead bacteria. They really stand behind this stuff too. I had a few questions and early on and they certainly are on the ball when it comes to cycling tanks. Pretty impressive.

Click this at their site and it's spelled out pretty good: Getting To Know Bacteria (http://www.naturbac.com/lit/nitrifying_bacteria.pdf)

[amosf]

Sounds like a sales pitch :) Are you the local rep :)

[H3D]

SuperBac is that another companys version of Biospira?

Here's what I found on it.

http://www.naturbac.com/products.html

Click products then aquarium, It claims it's live bacteria. But does not need to to be refrigerated.This product contains nitrobacter which is not effective in an aquarium.

[don_juan]

This product contains nitrobacter which is not effective in an aquarium.

Nitrobacter is the bacteria that naturally cultures to oxidize nitrite so your post has proven to not be effective in this conversation.

[Mgamer20o0]

Nitrobacter is the bacteria that naturally cultures to oxidize nitrite so your post has proven to not be effective in this conversation.
i dont see you proven anything. time after time the the only thing i ever seen anyone say that really works is bio spira. first time i ever heard of Superbac before. if it was so great i think more and more people would be talking about it kinda like with bio spira. i think we need more then i had a sw tank and it was cycled in 3 days from you.

[don_juan]

i dont see you proven anything. time after time the the only thing i ever seen anyone say that really works is bio spira. first time i ever heard of Superbac before. if it was so great i think more and more people would be talking about it kinda like with bio spira. i think we need more then i had a sw tank and it was cycled in 3 days from you.

Well, I you are insinuating that I'm attempting to do more than I have. I don't know how I could ever prove anything on the internet. All I can do is pass along factual, helpful information.

This is pretty exciting to me because nothing has been the real deal since this stuff came out. But, this product is brand new this year so I don't know how much talk you're expecting on something so new. Biospira has about a 3 year head start on "talk". It's hardly fair to compare the two.

Oh yeah, and it was 4 days not 3! (but I'm sure with a little more I could have gotten it to 3)

[H3D]

Nitrobacter is the bacteria that naturally cultures to oxidize nitrite so your post has proven to not be effective in this conversation.http://microbewiki.kenyon.edu/index.php/Nitrospira

Please read this as you are obviously misinformed. This is factual information as it is backed up with actual references.

[don_juan]

http://microbewiki.kenyon.edu/index.php/Nitrospira

Please read this as you are obviously misinformed. This is factual information as it is backed up with actual references.

Yes, that's very interesting. It is an oxidizer. Now all they have to do is figure out how to get it to work better than nitrobacter, which they haven't been able to do yet.

Maybe they'll have another massive recall and rethink it.

And doesn't it make you suspicious that they don't put an expiration date on a product that only lasts 3 months in the frige? I wouldn't trust anyone that is okay with people buying dead bacteria.

It's your money though. Party on!

[wataugachicken]

links please.

unless you have research (not ads) or multiple people posting and showing that this stuff works in their tanks, you can't argue how good it is. one cycled tank isn't proof of much. if you can show that it works well, works consistently, and is reliable, then you might have something.

seeing as how you have only posted in this and not any others, most of us will assume that you have only joined in order to sell this product. we don't know how much you know about aquariums, or fish, or cycling, so you haven't exactly built up a reputation that allows people to trust what you say.

[H3D]

Yes, that's very interesting. It is an oxidizer. Now all they have to do is figure out how to get it to work better than nitrobacter, which they haven't been able to do yet.

Maybe they'll have another massive recall and rethink it.

And doesn't it make you suspicious that they don't put an expiration date on a product that only lasts 3 months in the frige? I wouldn't trust anyone that is okay with people buying dead bacteria.

It's your money though. Party on!These are not the claims of one company! The result that have been found by the University of California have both been replicated and accepted by the scientific community.

See: http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=124703

Try and find just one study that shows nitrobacter as an effective nitrifying bacteria inside of an aquarium.

[don_juan]

links please.

unless you have research (not ads) or multiple people posting and showing that this stuff works in their tanks, you can't argue how good it is. one cycled tank isn't proof of much. if you can show that it works well, works consistently, and is reliable, then you might have something.

seeing as how you have only posted in this and not any others, most of us will assume that you have only joined in order to sell this product. we don't know how much you know about aquariums, or fish, or cycling, so you haven't exactly built up a reputation that allows people to trust what you say.

Hey, party on. It's all good. I was just responding to a post on the first page from someone who's used it. I didn't bring this all up, I joined the conversation.

I'm kind of sorry I did now.

[don_juan]

These are not the claims of one company! The result that have been found by the University of California have both been replicated and accepted by the scientific community.

See: http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=124703

Try and find just one study that shows nitrobacter as an effective nitrifying bacteria inside of an aquarium.

Should I leave? I'm joining a conversation about superbac that another guy started on page 1. It seems I've really somehow angered everyone by sharing my experience with a great new product.

[Rbishop]

No need to leave. There will always be subjects where we disagree.

[H3D]

Should I leave? I'm joining a conversation about superbac that another guy started on page 1. It seems I've really somehow angered everyone by sharing my experience with a great new product.There is no need to leave, however if you are going to make claims that Bio-Spira does not work back it up with some evidence. Likewise if you claim Superbac works then prove it with scientific evidence.

[don_juan]

There is no need to leave, however if you are going to make claims that Bio-Spira does not work back it up with some evidence. Likewise if you claim Superbac works then prove it with scientific evidence.

Look, we could both have an internet article duel on this, but the fact is most of those articles don't apply to this application. That's what you're not understanding. That article you gave me says nothing about nitrospira being the nitrite oxidizer of the universe. It just recognizes it as one. There are many otehrs too. Pacers and BMWs are both cars. Does that mean they are equal? No. Everybody "says" something.

You make your decisions in this hobby based on results. So go get your results and get back to me.

[Mgamer20o0]

links please.

unless you have research (not ads) or multiple people posting and showing that this stuff works in their tanks, you can't argue how good it is. one cycled tank isn't proof of much. if you can show that it works well, works consistently, and is reliable, then you might have something.

seeing as how you have only posted in this and not any others, most of us will assume that you have only joined in order to sell this product. we don't know how much you know about aquariums, or fish, or cycling, so you haven't exactly built up a reputation that allows people to trust what you say.
this is kinda of the point i was making. the only thing i see on this is a ad from you. one thing i learned early on is not to believe everything you read. more so in ads. there are so many products that claim this or that but are snake oil. until i see some respectable site backing it up or some respectable people backing it up i will not believe it.

i am not saying your lying about it. coming from someone new that i dont know i just dont believe it as much as someone who has been here and is proven to be a reliable source.

[H3D]

Look, we could both have an internet article duel on this, but the fact is most of those articles don't apply to this application. That's what you're not understanding. That article you gave me says nothing about nitrospira being the nitrite oxidizer of the universe. It just recognizes it as one. There are many otehrs too.The article I posted recognizes nitrospira as the the nitrifying bacteria inside an aquarium. Yes there are many nitrifying bacteria, however they are not all effective inside of an aquarium. Yes I know nitrobacter is a nitrifier. It has been found effective in sewage treatment plants, however it is not effective inside of an aquarium. The reason you do not want to post a source that backs up this claim about nitrobacter is because you will not be able to find one.

[severum mama]

If superbac doesn't work, then I have no idea how I did a 200 gallon saltwater in 4 days and had it about full on the 5th and it be so flourishing a month later.

Perhaps you used cured live rock that was ready to convert NH3 and NO2z when you bought it? I've seen this work many times in SW tanks. However, cycling a FW tank from scratch is a whole different ballgame.

[don_juan]

Perhaps you used cured live rock that was ready to convert NH3 and NO2z when you bought it? I've seen this work many times in SW tanks. However, cycling a FW tank from scratch is a whole different ballgame.

It was a rhetorical question. You still have to wait on cured live rock to fill your tank.

Why would someone take the time to recommend anything based on something they had only read about in research papers or company claims? If that's what I had done here then I might understand the defensive rudeness I was met with. I happened to have had practical experience with a product someone mentioned (SuperBac), as you guys obviously haven't, so I shared my experience. Then I was accused of "selling" because I linked you to a pdf I was good enough to fetch for your benefit, not mine. Good lord.

It doesn't take a bioengineer to test a product, just the need to cycle a tank.

[severum mama]

If the rock is cured, then there would be no die off, and no need to wait to begin stocking. Even with a bacterial additive, it's best to take it slow IMO.

I haven't accused you of anything, just pointing out that I am a skeptic when it comes to bacterial additives- I wouldn't have recommended the Bio Spira either. From what I've heard from a lot of folks, even Bio Spira can be pretty much hit or miss, whether that's due to general ineffectiveness, poor shipping practices, etc. If you follow the instructions and add a full bioload along with the product only to later discover it didn't work for you, then you have a real mess on your hands until the cycle finishes.

There's no question that the easiest thing for the OP to do is just to overdose the ammonia while he is out of town. The worst case scenario then is that he doses too much ammonia and stalls the cycle a bit.

[WeeNe858]

thanks don juan for the site :]... a majority of the nitrafying bacteria products work in speeding the cycle up... super bac is just a shelved version of bio spira.. and yes they do use super bac in sewage treating... but why is there a difference in decomposing organics in a sewer plant and decomposing organics in a filter or tank?... the 2 different bacteria in the bottle to my knowledge do their own thing.. (one converts ammonia and one converts the nitrite) and as far as proof goes... we set up all our tanks with superbac here at Coral and Reef Center and being that the bacteria are cultivated... each batch is different and i you think you got a dud notify you LFS or the company with the batch number and stuff on the bottom of the bottle :]

[WeeNe858]

If the rock is cured, then there would be no die off, and no need to wait to begin stocking. Even with a bacterial additive, it's best to take it slow IMO.

I haven't accused you of anything, just pointing out that I am a skeptic when it comes to bacterial additives- I wouldn't have recommended the Bio Spira either. From what I've heard from a lot of folks, even Bio Spira can be pretty much hit or miss, whether that's due to general ineffectiveness, poor shipping practices, etc. If you follow the instructions and add a full bioload along with the product only to later discover it didn't work for you, then you have a real mess on your hands until the cycle finishes.

There's no question that the easiest thing for the OP to do is just to overdose the ammonia while he is out of town. The worst case scenario then is that he doses too much ammonia and stalls the cycle a bit.


technically cured live rock from a store is only partially cures.. you still have to let it set up and have the bacteria regrow to support your biolaod in the tank... now if yout getting it fron someones tank.. then thats fully cures and ready to rock if you setting up a tank thats identical to the originals rocks tank... otherwise you would have to let the bacteria come up to speed with the new bioload you putting on it

[severum mama]

technically cured live rock from a store is only partially cures
Not at the store I work for. Ours is fully cured in a large holding tub, and sustains a bioload of some large messy fish. I wouldn't hesitate to put it straight into a tank with fish, but I guess not everyone has the opportunity to buy LR fully cured.


otherwise you would have to let the bacteria come up to speed with the new bioload you putting on it
Again, I'm a big proponent of stocking slowly.

[WeeNe858]

Not at the store I work for. Ours is fully cured in a large holding tub, and sustains a bioload of some large messy fish. I wouldn't hesitate to put it straight into a tank with fish, but I guess not everyone has the opportunity to buy LR fully cured.


Again, I'm a big proponent of stocking slowly.



we keep damsles in our tanks but its only cure to a certain extent.. and stocking slowly is how you would let the bacteria catch up to the bioload.. :]


(this is a really good post)

[severum mama]

and stocking slowly is how you would let the bacteria catch up to the bioload.. :]
Yes, that was my point, that you stock slowly to be sure your biofilter can catch up. But the LR I can get could probably sustain a much higher bioload initially than I would be willing to try.

Our rock is cured in a big tub with a huge skimmer and a foot-long gold puffer, a Picasso trigger, red belted anthias, powder blue tang, and various angels (the list changes as they sell).

[WeeNe858]

Yes, that was my point, that you stock slowly to be sure your biofilter can catch up. But the LR I can get could probably sustain a much higher bioload initially than I would be willing to try.

Our rock is cured in a big tub with a huge skimmer and a foot-long gold puffer, a Picasso trigger, red belted anthias, powder blue tang, and various angels (the list changes as they sell).


lol.. a foot long puffer ;p.. we have (4) 80 gallon tubs that are connected and 2 big G skimmers on each end.. we dont keep expensive live rock because we add neww live rock by the pound so it causes a slight crash..

and we're thinking about upgrading the skimmer to a 8 foot tall wholesalers skimmer

[H3D]

Why would someone take the time to recommend anything based on something they had only read about in research papers or company claims? If that's what I had done here then I might understand the defensive rudeness I was met with. I happened to have had practical experience with a product someone mentioned (SuperBac), as you guys obviously haven't, so I shared my experience. Then I was accused of "selling" because I linked you to a pdf I was good enough to fetch for your benefit, not mine. Good lord.

It doesn't take a bioengineer to test a product, just the need to cycle a tank.I have used Bio-Spira multiple times with great success as have many other people that I know. I was showing you the link as evidence that it has been scientifically proven that nitrobacter does not effectively establish in an aquarium. If you do not want to accept what multiple scientists have shown the by all means do not.

[BucJason]

this is kinda of the point i was making. the only thing i see on this is a ad from you. one thing i learned early on is not to believe everything you read. more so in ads. there are so many products that claim this or that but are snake oil. until i see some respectable site backing it up or some respectable people backing it up i will not believe it.

i am not saying your lying about it. coming from someone new that i dont know i just dont believe it as much as someone who has been here and is proven to be a reliable source.

Yes, kinda reminds of the way a Marineland sales rep. claims thier bacteria will stay alive 6 months at room temp.... hahahaha. yeah right...

[WeeNe858]

well that site did finally prove my product :].. and it does work

[H3D]

well that site did finally prove my product :].. and it does work What site...you have shown no proof that your product works other than hearsay. If you can prove that it works then you could be published in a scientific journal because there is no scientific evidence that proves nitrobacter is an effective nitrifier in a freshwater aquarium.

[don_juan]

Yes, that was my point, that you stock slowly to be sure your biofilter can catch up. But the LR I can get could probably sustain a much higher bioload initially than I would be willing to try.

Our rock is cured in a big tub with a huge skimmer and a foot-long gold puffer, a Picasso trigger, red belted anthias, powder blue tang, and various angels (the list changes as they sell).


Wow, good discussion going on. I just learned a thing or two about live rock. Thanks all.

[don_juan]

What site...you have shown no proof that your product works other than hearsay. If you can prove that it works then you could be published in a scientific journal because there is no scientific evidence that proves nitrobacter is an effective nitrifier in a freshwater aquarium.

You don't need scientific write-ups. It's been know for a long time. It's the bio-spiras of the world that come out and cause confusion and tell you red is really blue.

I can tell you nitrobacter is the best bacteria for nitrite without having a PHD. I can also tell you it's cold in Siberia without going there.

[H3D]

You don't need scientific write-ups. It's been know for a long time. It's the bio-spiras of the world that come out and cause confusion and tell you red is really blue.

I can tell you nitrobacter is the best bacteria for nitrite without having a PHD. I can also tell you it's cold in Siberia without going there.
:rant2:Obviously you have no idea what you are talking about! It is laughable to me that you could even compare a single common observation to years of microbiology research. Silly me why should anyone trust an expert scientist when we have you to tell us something works with out any proof at all. Oh wise one please tell us how we are all wrong and you are right.

[WeeNe858]

who cares what type of bacteria is what or does what... we all know that with the help of the present bacteria in the bottle you can cycle faster.... so if its your belief that Bio-spira or Superbac dont work then so be it.. dont use and and we'll all be happy :] but if your so genius.. then what bacterias DO we need to cycle a tank





And i wanna update my earlier post... our store has (4) 180 gallon tubs

[H3D]

who cares what type of bacteria is what or does what... we all know that with the help of the present bacteria in the bottle you can cycle faster.... so if its your belief that Bio-spira or Superbac dont work then so be it.. dont use and and we'll all be happy :] but if your so genius.. then what bacterias DO we need to cycle a tank. And i wanna update my earlier post... our store has (4) 180 gallon tubs
I fully believe Bio-Spira works. Like I said I have used it many times. I used it to cycle my 90 gallon just a couple of months ago. The cycle was completed in less than 2 weeks. I have also used products containing nitrobacter before and they just do not work. I am no genius, but there are many intelligent individuals who have done research on this matter and all replicated the results showing that nitrospira (the ingredient in Bio-Spira) is the main nitrifying bacteria that develops in an aquarium. I have given evidence for this other than my word. The reason this is upsetting to me is that I do not want other to read this thread and think that products that contain nitrobacter work and go out and waste their money on them.

[WeeNe858]

totally agreee...but superbac does have an alternative nitro in it that does the job..nitrobacter is belived to do somthing its jus that somthing isint really cycle related...



so lets start a list of claimed products that induce the cycling process to help out new people .. (and feel free to correct the listings)



-Cycle

-Stress Zyme

[gocfella]

The paper that H3d linked to seems to be quite conclusive on the matter. Although I had heard rumours that this was the case, it was nice to finally read the paper.

It mentions at some point that the addition of Nitrobactor containing products did have an effect on the cycle, but not because of colonisation by Nitrobactor. They suggest that (possibly)the other additives it contains (presumably to keep the nitrobactors alive) increase the health of the existing Nitrospira colony. This sounds very plausible to me. I am not an expert but I am an environmental consultant with a lot of experience in the field of domestic waste water purification.

I think it is fair for anyone to say that Nitrobactor are not a significant factor in freshwater aquaria cycling. Just adding my two cent. I am a newb to tropical fish keeping :)

[don_juan]

Oh wise one please tell us how we are all wrong and you are right.

My pleasure but I'm not that wise. I just know a thing or two about this.

The two links you cited both referenced Dr. Timothy Hovanec, Chief Science Officer of Marineland Labs in any part naming nitrospira as the "dominant" genome of nitrite oxidizing bacteria. Other references (even if you follow all the links) merely identify the genome or mention a "study" here or there about it's effectivity and even that has varied results. There is absolutely nothing dfinitive in anything you have said, other than the scientist leading the charge on all of this is on the payroll. So this brings us back to the unthinkable: Putting to rest symantics and actually doing tests for ourselves.

This bio-spira thing is almost 10 years old now and there is nothing finalized about this. It's not in the mainstream anywhere. Man, even Kurt Kobain found his way into the mainstream and he had to get through Guns N' Roses to do it and there wasn't even any scientists involved!

Look, every nitrite spike I have I put in the nitrobacter and it goes away. Do you really expect your Marineland sponsored science write-ups to compete with that? I mean, seriously.

[gocfella]

I would draw your attention to the fact that nobody has attempted to contradict Dr. Timothy Hovanec's findings in regard to the lack of Nitrobactor found in both a waste water or freshwater environment or repeated his tests and offered different conclusions. Although this may happen in the future, his is currently the most up to date work in the field is it not? Surely any one of Marineland's competitors would dispute the findings if they felt they were spurious or downright 'sponsored' lies? :confused:

[holbritter]

**note to self: never mention a brand new product that might work, on this board without wearing your blasting protection gear**

[don_juan]

I would draw your attention to the fact that nobody has attempted to contradict Dr. Timothy Hovanec's findings in regard to the lack of Nitrobactor found in both a waste water or freshwater environment or repeated his tests and offered different conclusions. Although this may happen in the future, his is currently the most up to date work in the field is it not? Surely any one of Marineland's competitors would dispute the findings if they felt they were spurious or downright 'sponsored' lies? :confused:

Bio-spira is one mediocre selling product by one of 3 major parent companies that own, like, almost everyone. They could care less. And they all have lies on bottles. This is the consolidation age buddy. Your radio station, TV station, newspaper, billboard, sister, and uncle are likely owned by the same company.

This is one reason why everyone isn't lining up to dispute this science. Nobody cares. I haven't seen bio-spira put anyone out of business.

[don_juan]

**note to self: never mention a brand new product that might work, on this board without wearing your blasting protection gear**

Where do I get one of those? Hehehe This will be the last time for sure. I didn't know there was such a devout following for an aquatics product... and especially that one.

[H3D]

Bio-spira is one mediocre selling product by one of 3 major parent companies that own, like, almost everyone. They could care less. And they all have lies on bottles. This is the consolidation age buddy. Your radio station, TV station, newspaper, billboard, sister, and uncle are likely owned by the same company.

This is one reason why everyone isn't lining up to dispute this science. Nobody cares. I haven't seen bio-spira put anyone out of business. :troll: It is obvious you have an agenda against Marineland. The links I provided were to research done by the University of California. If you think the research was falsified then take it up with them! The reason Bio-Spira has not completely taken out the competition is because :troll: like you who have an agenda to fool others in to buying products that do not work properly!

[gocfella]

This is the consolidation age buddy. Your radio station, TV station, newspaper, billboard, sister, and uncle are likely owned by the same company.

A fair point I suppose. The truth is we will never know but none of these products will harm your cycle, so as long as people's expectations aren't too high then I guess it makes sense to hedge your bets! :rolleyes:

[don_juan]

:troll: It is obvious you have an agenda against Marineland. The links I provided were to research done by the University of California. If you think the research was falsified then take it up with them! The reason Bio-Spira has not completely taken out the competition is because :troll: like you who have an agenda to fool others in to buying products that do not work properly!

Bartender, cut this guy off.

[don_juan]

A fair point I suppose. The truth is we will never know but none of these products will harm your cycle, so as long as people's expectations aren't too high then I guess it makes sense to hedge your bets! :rolleyes:

Perhaps. Perhaps. Well until this stuff quits cycling my tanks with the efficiency of a SEAL team it's my new best friend.

[H3D]

A fair point I suppose. The truth is we will never know but none of these products will harm your cycle, so as long as people's expectations aren't too high then I guess it makes sense to hedge your bets! :rolleyes: While nitrobacter products may not "harm" your cycle, they do not complete the cycle by themselves. Therefore you risk harm to the fish in your aquarium by using them.

[jm1212]

Bartender, cut this guy off.
after going through the whole thread, hes not the one who needs to be cut off.

the only bacterial supplement that i have tried that has worked is Bio Spira. all of the others have bacteria that live for a week and then they die off and you have more problems than when you started because not only do you have high ammonia, you have high nitrites too.

saying that Bio SPira will harm your cycle is like saying that feeding your fish will kill them. the bacteria in the packets are the bacteria that you need to cycle a tank.

[H3D]

saying that Bio SPira will harm your cycle is like saying that feeding your fish will kill them. the bacteria in the packets are the bacteria that you need to cycle a tank. :clap: Exactly!

[don_juan]

While nitrobacter products may not "harm" your cycle, they do not complete the cycle by themselves. Therefore you risk harm to the fish in your aquarium by using them.

Products you are talking about not working that claim to have nitrobacter don't actually have nitrobacter in them... they don't have anything in them.. at all! You're gonna have to get with the program here.

You simply have no experience with nitrobacter whatsoever and as far as I'm concerned have ZERO credibility in this conversation. There are those here who have experience with this bacteria and are batting .1000 with it. Your "theories" aren't good enough.

Please... tell me when you have ever used nitrobacter for anything. This ought to be funny. :bday:

[Rbishop]

While this is all very interesting, I would like to remind all that the OP's question, dated 12/15/06 concerned an issue that is not being discussed and it involved a 72 hour period that has long ago expired. They also have not participated in the thread since then.

So it looks like we should be answering the question of how long the bacteria live without a food source. And some one might want to start a thread on the different effects of nitrifying bacteria. Thanks.

[H3D]

While this is all very interesting, I would like to remind all that the OP's question, dated 12/15/06 concerned an issue that is not being discussed and it involved a 72 hour period that has long ago expired. They also have not participated in the thread since then.

So it looks like we should be answering the question of how long the bacteria live without a food source. And some one might want to start a thread on the different effects of nitrifying bacteria. Thanks. rbishop is right we are way :OT:.

Everyone please continue this debate in the thread below:

http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=94612

[skypx]

So, is anyone still interesed in how well Superbac (real nitrifying bacteria) works? I am going to start cycling (fishless, plantless) a 115g freshwater aquarium tomorrow. I'll post my findings if interested.

[wataugachicken]

hmmm. i don't think that would show any 'scientific' results about how well it works, though. there are more factors to establishing a cycle than what product is added. i mean, the necessary bacteria will settle in the tank eventually whether you add a product or not, because they are all around us naturally. so technically in order to prove anything, you'd have to set up a control tank(s) to see if there really is a difference between a seeded-with-superbac cycle and an unseeded cycle. or even a biospira-seeded cycle. who knows, maybe you just have a lot of nitro-whatever bacteria in your surroundings. i'm not badgering you personally, you understand.

and omg this thread is really old too.