pressurized CO2 or liquid concentrate?

[kooter]

What are the benefits, pros or cons of pressurized co2 vs. (for example) Flourish excel liquid co2?
I am debating whether to go pressurized or try the liquid for awhile.
Does the liquid fert play with your pH at all?

[naps]

what size tank do you have???
I don't think excell messes up the ph at all, but it can get really pricey to add to a larger tank. If it's a larger tank I suggest going the pressurized co2 route, it'll cost more setting up but it will save you money in the long run.
Right now I'm trying to use excell on a 90g and it's not working out, I'm spending over $8+ a week, I need to switch to co2 soon.

[John N.]

Pro For Pressurized
Constant flow of CO2 for 6+ months
No need to fiddle with it during that time
Provides all necessary nutrients

Cons For Pressurized
Initial startup costs are $170-200
Maybe hard to find welding supply to fill/get CO2 cylinder locally

Pros for Excel
Doesn't degas
Easy to administer
Widely available via locally or online

Cons for Excel
Expensive to administer in a tank greater than 40 gallons
Requires near daily dosing maintenance

-John N.

[kooter]

wow, thanks for the quick responses.
I am just nervous about the pressurized unit.
I can get 2L of flourish excel for $23.00.

[kooter]

what size tank do you have???



it works out to be approx. 130G, but with substrate and level of water, approx. 125G.

[naps]

I'd look into co2 personally... :cool2:

[John N.]

For 130 gallon tank, I would recommend a pressurized CO2 system with an inline reactor for CO2 diffusion. You'll be wasting a lot of money on the excel in a short time.

1. Azoo Regulator - drsfostersmith.com ~ $90
2. Aquamedic Reactor 1000 - drsfostersmith.com ~ $70 or a DIY reactor - $20
3. 10lb CO2 cylinder - found locally ~ $70-90

Total Cost: around $200

-John N.

[kooter]

what do you guys think about this setup?

http://www.petsolutions.com/CO2+Pro+System-I-30751070-I-C-13-C-.aspx

[John N.]

It's a good system, but doesn't come with a solenoid so that you can't cut the flow of CO2 at night when the lights are out. This helps save CO2, and less refilling of the cylinder later.

But the regulator will work well, the little reactor that comes might not be as efficient though. I would get the recommended parts above, or instead of a AM1000 reactor, maybe a power vortex reactor like the one at aquabotanic.com

Oh, and Pressurized setups will lower your pH.

-John N.

[Star_Rider]

what do you guys think about this setup?

http://www.petsolutions.com/CO2+Pro+System-I-30751070-I-C-13-C-.aspx

you can order this system with solenoid..the solenoid can be installed inline or on the regulator.

I have the system set up on a 75 I use the paintball system with 20 oz bottles.

it works pretty good.

the paintball bottles are easy to have filled in these parts..you can also set up a CO2 (large) bottle to refill the paintball tanks. I use the paintball system as I don't have room for the larger CO2 tanks.

when setting up the co2 indicator I use a method recomended by an more experience person and use distilled water and set the kH to 4.

[kooter]

excuse my ignorance since I am a Noobie to co2, but what is the reactor for?
some systems seem to use it and others don't?

[bkw1982]

the reactor is to help defuse co2 into the water if i remember correctly.

i perfer excel, but i only have a small tank, i agree tht if u have a larger tank go with pressurized. ive seen some use a paintball gun tank filled with co2 and a reactor....couldnt find artical on it, maybe on another site. i think tht would be the cheapest way if u can find a steady supply of co2 to refill the tank. im off to google to see if i can find it

[John N.]

Reactor is used to dissolve the CO2 into the water column.

The other Red Sea regulator designed to fit the valves on paintball 20 oz cylinders (for paintball guns) are available also. Here's one http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsUS/ctl3684/cp18478/si1431675/cl0/redseaco2prosystempaintball

On your size tank, I'm guessing the little paintball cylinders would last you about 2 months, as oppose to using a regular large 10 lb cylinder that should last a least a year. People like the little paintball regulator and cylinder option because it's small size, and it's easier for them to find the 20 oz CO2 cylinders at their local walmart, as oppose to finding a welding or fire supply shop for a large cylinder.

-John N.

[kooter]

I actually have a Hagen co2 system in the tank right now, (I was told that it would be ok for my tank..... :duh: :mad: now I know better), anyways, the co2 comes out as a bubble and rides up the ladder, then rises to the top and pops.
How does the water get the co2 out of the bubble? when it pops at the top of the water - there goes all the co2?! so is it better to have the ladder or plugged directly into a powerhead?! How do plants benefit on the other side of the tank if the bubble floats straight up?(Hence the regulator dissolving and/or dissipating the co2.)

[Star_Rider]

the ladder slows the bubbles rise to the top. have you noticed the bubbles start out big then shrink to a really tiny bubble?
that is the CO2 diffusing into the water column.
once it is dissolved the movement of the water will distribut the CO2(surface turbulance tends to diffuse the CO2 into the atmosphere.

[kooter]

ah ha. now it makes sense. I will have to check the size of the bubbles at the top of the ladder. I also put a powerhead right next to it in hopes the dissolved
co2 will be dispersed more throughout the tank.

[loaches r cool]

Right now I'm trying to use excell on a 90g and it's not working out, I'm spending over $8+ a week, I need to switch to co2 soon.

Yeeks thats expensive. But dont blame it on the Excel. I have a 45G that I am using only Excel on it and figure it will be $20/year or less. You might want to look at this if you have a big tank: http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsUS/ctl3684/cp18480/si1380292/cl0/seachemflourishexcel4liter would probably last you a year or so for $38, plus a few on shipping.

But yeah, when your talking a 3 digit tank, I'd be looking into pressurized. I actually do both, I use Excel right after my weekly water change. I fgure that it might help more instantly replenish carbon in the water plus its suppose to help against algea too, and I do spot treatments with excel.

[kooter]

what size tank do you have???
I don't think excell messes up the ph at all, but it can get really pricey to add to a larger tank. If it's a larger tank I suggest going the pressurized co2 route, it'll cost more setting up but it will save you money in the long run.
Right now I'm trying to use excell on a 90g and it's not working out, I'm spending over $8+ a week, I need to switch to co2 soon.


wow. If I add the amount I'm suppose to, (10ml. every other day), I can dose excel for a year @ $24.00 US. (Pet Solutions - 2L)

[loaches r cool]

Yeah... I am not saying Excel is ever the best option but everyone says its way expensive and thats just not true... unless you buying the small bottles or from an lfs or someplace that way overcharges for it. I calculated it out one day roughly, and I overdose excel 1.5X-2X and I should still get nearly 2 years out of 1 bottle on my 45g tank.

[justintoxicated]

That reactor is small but they will diffuse the CO2 100%

Might work best with 2 of them on a tank that size though...

Don't go with a paintball setup on a large tank, jsut go ahead and get teh 10 lb or more cylinder. And get a solenoid.

[kooter]

I'm just going to go with the Hagen Ladder and Flourish excel right now. When I can comfortably afford the pressurized system I will go that route. Like I said, I can go quite awhile on $25.00. I will keep you posted how things go with the liquid dosing. Are the other Excel products really necessary? I guess you have to test the water to accurately know for sure?!

[Native American]

I did a ton of research before buying a pair of pressurized setups this week (my two larger tanks now each have a 10-lb. CO2 bottle, Milwaukee MA957 regulator w/ gauges & bubble counter).

I got a bargain on the Milwaukee regulators I could not pass up. Came out to under $150.00 to start one tank, and that included a trip to town to get the new cylinder charged w/ CO2 by the friendly welding shop guys. :)

That said...if you can't get the Milwaukee regulator setup for $90 or less (got both of mine new for less than $70 each), I would get this instead:

Aquariumplants.com regulator (http://www.aquariumplants.com/AQUARIUMPLANTS_com_s_Co2_Regulator_The_BEST_p/co2-1.htm)

The reason I say this is, even though it's about $50 more than the max I'd pay for a Milwaukee regulator setup, it has some better features:

1.) Regulator is easier to fine-tune
2.) Low-pressure gauge has a zero-to-15psi range (this is all you need; gauges with more range than this on the regulator output side are not useful)
3.) Fine-thread needle valve (you turn it versus trial-and-error-nudging to get a fine-tuned CO2 flow).

My Milwaukee MA957's will take the better part of a week to tune for people who haven't used gas regulators before, though since I'm familiar with gas regulators (laboratory work in college; gas welding and cutting torches), I've almost got the seetings to just right in 24 hours.

The other bonus to using the Aquariumplants.com regulator is that you won't be tempted to crank the regulator to the point where you're getting high pressures when the solenoid de-powers...the gauge goes only to 15psi. Really, if you use more than 15psi, some solenoids have to work hard to "unseat" the sealing surface, and you'll destroy them in a couple days. Which brands are fragile? I don't know, so I treat my gear as if it is. The regulator should be used to set the flow as close as you can get it...the needle valve is used for fine-tuning, and much better for the longevity of the solenoid if you don't use it at all.

As far as my setups go, I've got good flow without the regulated-side gauge needle even moving off the peg...in short, I'm in the 5-7psi range, with the needle valves only required to slow down the flow just the tiniest amount, if at all.

Pressurzied CO2? I'd say go for it. Although it did cause explosive plant growth over the last year, I've given up on sugar and yeast. Whenever my wife wanted to bake some sweets, we were always out of sugar! :rolleyes:

v/r, N-A

[naps]

Yeeks thats expensive. But dont blame it on the Excel. I have a 45G that I am using only Excel on it and figure it will be $20/year or less. You might want to look at this if you have a big tank: http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsUS/ctl3684/cp18480/si1380292/cl0/seachemflourishexcel4liter would probably last you a year or so for $38, plus a few on shipping.

But yeah, when your talking a 3 digit tank, I'd be looking into pressurized. I actually do both, I use Excel right after my weekly water change. I fgure that it might help more instantly replenish carbon in the water plus its suppose to help against algea too, and I do spot treatments with excel.
I've been dosing 2 caps a day and then I have to add more when I do my weekly 50% water change...and yeah I've been buying the small bottles. :sad:

[kooter]

It's only been a few days and dosing with the liquid excel has done wonders!
There are new plants growing! I haven't had any new (real good) growth is a loooong time. woo hoo for excel! I just order 1L for 15.00, this should last 6 months @ 10ml. every 2nd day. :dance2: :clap: :dive2:
Any comments on the other products flourish carries like potassium, iron, etc.
I'm getting the flourish, flourish excel and the potassium.

[epicfish]

I've been dosing 2 caps a day and then I have to add more when I do my weekly 50% water change...and yeah I've been buying the small bottles. :sad:

$8 a week. A month is $32. In 5-6 months, you could get a CO2 setup if you started looking now.

My CO2 setup: 15# CO2 cylinder, JBJ regulator, 3-way manifold, 3 bubble counters, 3 nano glass diffusers...probably around $160 since I pieced it together slowly.