Help me please I'm new to fish

[robertob]

Hello, I'm new to fish keeping and I just bought a new 10 gal. tank at Walmart that included: tank, filter, heater, etc. I started about 17 days ago and have lost 6 fish. I started out with 5 fish and have replaced them as I went along. A couple hav died for reasons I can't explain. 4 Blackskirt Tetras died, all had "nicks" in their bodies close to their heads and were gasping for breath and the last one that died had ragged looking fins and tail. I have also lost a Swordtail and 1 Dwarf Gourami for reasons unknown. I currently have 1 Dwarf Gourami and 1 Gold Gourami in my tank. The Dwarf Gourami has small salt like particles on his pectoral fins and Monday of this week, today is Friday, I bought some Ick med and followed the directions on the bottle. I removed the filter and left the filter pump running and added the appropriate dose the tank. That's when I lost all the Tetras. The Gold Gourami eats fair and is fairly active but the one with ick, the Dwarf Gourami, lies on his side on the bottom of the tank, doesn't eat, every now and then swims to the top and then back to the bottom again, has glassy eyes and his color has faded somewhat. It's been 5 days of treatment. I have performed 20% partial H2O changes 3 times this week and now am doing this everyday since I read a message on this forum indicating to do this. I aslo vacum the gravel during the H2O changes. Should I keep giving the ick med until the spots have dissappeared, or should I stop and replace the filter tommorrow? I'm afraid I going to lose my last 2 fish before my H2O has cycled. I measured the Ammonia level Thurs, it was <1. pH was 7.6. i can't get the pH down no matter how much "pH down" I add, so I quit trying. Someone please help me. I really am ignorant about this hobby but I am determined and willing to learn.

[Dr.Guppy]

From what you say I would guess that your tank has not cycled properly yet. I am sure that some other people on here will probably give you a lecture on cycling, but basically it takes on average at least 3 or so weeks - and the best way of doing it these days is fishless, adding ammonia to the tank to get the filter going, and then going through the nitrite peaks and all that. Like i said, I'm certain someone else will go into it in more detail.

From what you say about the way your fish dies I would guess it was ammonia poisoning. You say is is less than 1, but that is still considered to be too high - ammonia is a deadly substance to fish. Another thought is why would you want to lower your pH? Its practically neutral - a pH that alot of fishkeepers would die for to come out of their taps. I wouldn't recommend the use of pH altering chemicals.

Hope this helps,
Michael.

[NJ Devils Fan]

Welcome to AC! :)

Here, check out my Getting started (http://njdevilsfan130.tripod.com/Getting_started.htm) page for help. It should answer your questions. It will explain the cycle and all that.

As for the ich, the medicince is too strong for tetras, that is why all of your died when you added it.

[robertob]

Thanks Guys. As I said, I'm new to this and appreciate your help. This Am my Ammonia level was 0. Today I'm going to get a Nitrite testing kit and test that. The Dwarf Gourami still has 3 small ick spots on his pectoral fins so I guess I'll keep adding the ick med. I have already given 5 doses and tonight will make 6. Again, thanks for your help.

[Dr.Guppy]

I would be very careful not to overdose that ick medicine...it can take a while to have its full effect.

[robertob]

Should I stop the med and replace the filter today and do a 20% partial H2O change? The Dwarf Gourami still has 3 tiny ick spots on his fins. I was afraid that I was adding to much. I started Monday adding 1 teaspoon/gallon as directed on the bottle every night and I changed the H2O Wed, Thurs, Fri, and I will change it today. The other Gold Gourami is now just hanging around the top with his pectoral fins close to his body but I don't see any evidence of ick. Help.

[ChilDawg]

Nope, don't stop medicating now! Ich has a long life-cycle for parasites, and, during most of that cycle, ich is invulnerable to meds. You need to hit it when the ich is in the free-swimming stages, and that leads to two-weeks-plus of treatment in normal temperature tanks.

[Dr.Guppy]

What do you mean when you say replace the filter? Do you mean media and all, because if you do then that would mean having to re-cycle it, unless you keep some of the current filter media going in the new filter to give it a halp start. I also do not quite understand why the filter is in need of change, unless I am missing something here.

[robertob]

I guess I should have clarified what I meant, sorry. While adding medication, I read that the carbon filter has to be removed but leave the filter pump running, because the filter will remove the medication. I kept the filter in a resealable zip bag and stored it away. After medication is finish you are supposed to place the filter back in the filter pump.

[Dr.Guppy]

I would have thought it more logical to remove just the carbon, and this is as far as I am aware the general practise. In order to keep filter bacteria alive, it must be kept submerged with a flow of water going through it - and a good supply of food (the wastes such as ammonia in the water). If these are not provided then the bacteria in the filter will die off, and the cycling process repeated - which I fear will be the case of your filter.

The carbon should be removed as it actually soaks up the medication that is added, and therefore it does not allow it to do its job. I would suggest not using carbon in a filter as a general rule unless it has a particular purpose to perform - it can be beneficial in many ways, such as preventing tanins from bogwood from discolouring the aquarium water, but it can also be not so beneficial in others, such as this example of it soaking up medications. I personally do not use carbon in my filters.

Hope this helps,
Michael.

[robertob]

I guess, just buy a filter that doesn't have carbon and leave it in even while administering the med? I didn't know that you can get filters that didn't have the activated carbon in it. I really don't know where to get it. Oh well. Again thanks for your help.

[Dr.Guppy]

Your are very welcome, and it should be possible to just remove the carbon from your current filter.

Hope it all helps,
Michael.

[robertob]

I just did that. I cut the filter and poured the carbon out and then washed it in dechlorinated H2O. Hopefully it will work. Thanks again! By the way, the Dwarf Gourami appears to have only 1 ick spot on his right pectoral fin. :)

[NJ Devils Fan]

The way you were saying it was a bit confusing. The filter is the who lunit that sucks water up and cleans it. The thing you took the carbon out of it the filter media. And you did the right thing by cutting a hole in the pad and dumping the carbon out.

[wetmanNY]

Don't give up! It's not going to be this hard all along. Good thing you found AC, eh! This is a terrific group here.

Still, you have to get a book to give you the picture. Get David Boruchowitz, The Simple Guide to Freshwater Aquariums. Get it through www.amazon.com if it will take you a few days to get to a bookstore. (They'll probably have to order it for you anyway.)

The thing is, you can't put the whole picture together, even with a whole series of posts here. This book is very good.

Come look at Ich information (and links) at www.skepticalaquarist.com .

[BBN]

I've been told that bringing up your tank temperature to 80 degrees will also kill the ick.

[ChilDawg]

It's 85 degrees Fahrenheit, but that's not quite true. The raising of temp shortens the life cycle of ich, so they are in the free-swimming stage more often. You still need to medicate for the ich, but you can nail it more of the time with the medication.

[Dr.Guppy]

I must disagree with you childawg there. Ick is denatured at high temperatures of around 28C, and therefore are dead. So it is an effective way of solving an ick investation, and has worked for many people very successfully including myself.

[ChilDawg]

My bad. My literature says that ich doesn't die at that temp, so that's what I was going on. Knock on wood, but I haven't had to field-test it, so I'll go with you on that.

[wetmanNY]

A temperature of 28 celsius is equivalent to a bit more than 82 degrees Fahrenheit. Ichthyophthirius multifiliis is stressed at temperatures over 86oF, but last summer (or the summer before) I had some Ich after several weeks of tanks running in the high 80sF. My personal conclusion is that a heat that would kill Ich all on its own would be severely stressful to many tropical fishes.

Lipids may be denatured. Proteins may be denatured. But now how would a ciliate be "denatured?"