I want real plants and my wife wants artificial...

[SPACEMAKER]

I need some ammo to convince her that real is the only way to go.

The aesthetic reasons are obvious but she is afraid that our tank will be more difficult to maintain.

I would like to gather a list of pros and cons.

[cichlidkeeper91]

It wont be that much of a hassle if you just put a little bunch plants. Just dont over do it or you will have a lot of maintenance.

[SPACEMAKER]

I won't have a bunch of plants due to how my set up is designed. Part of the appeal is being able to see through into the other room.

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i109/ron_burgandy/Aquarium/b7d25fe8.jpg

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i109/ron_burgandy/Aquarium/7335d107.jpg

I should also note that the blacklights will be replaced by white light.

Would 6500K be OK?

[ergo sum]

How much light is in there?

[IceH2O]

Go with mosses and ferns. Won't be much trimming or ferts needed can use less light and won't be a visual barrier.

Its amazing how good a moss tank can look.

http://showcase.aquatic-gardeners.org/2006.cgi?&op=showcase&category=0&vol=2&id=28
http://showcase.aquatic-gardeners.org/2006.cgi?&op=showcase&category=0&vol=1&id=16
http://showcase.aquatic-gardeners.org/2006.cgi?&op=showcase&category=0&vol=1&id=99
http://showcase.aquatic-gardeners.org/2006.cgi?&op=showcase&category=0&vol=1&id=95

etc etc etc

[liv2padl]

much depends on how much light you've got (both lumens and wattage), the kind of plants you choose to grow, the depth of the tank (light penetration) and the substrate you choose to grow them in.

i can only offer you MY experience. i've tried plants of all manner, both those that are supposed to grow in low light conditions and those that need higher lighting. i've killed virtually every plant you can name at one time or another and have NEVER been successful in the long run. i end up with alot of decomposing plants, alot of debris, and basically a big unhappy mess. i've not tried C02, i've not tried special substrate (fluorite and the like), i've not used fertilizer and basically have had the attitude that if god wants the plants to grow, they'll grow. evidently he opted for not growing.

i raise, breed and sell cichlids. that's my primary focus. i don't want the hassle of all the extraneous blah and blah that plants are alleged to need. that said however, i DO like the look of plants in some of my tanks.

my answer? can you say silk? i use silk plants and i'd defy you to tell the difference between those i use and the 'real thing'.

http://www.thatpetplace.com/images/presentation/P18752.jpg

http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/product/productInfo.web?infoParam.mode=1&infoParam.itemKey=212637

your results may differ.

[Mgamer20o0]

plants look really nice. they also help to keep the tank water clean. my nitrates are at zero.

[b rob]

I would just like to say that your tank is awesome. and... Personally I'd put some pants on and tell her you're getting live plants. But if you really need ammo just make up some stuff. For instance "lives plants will keep our fish healthier because they release enzymes into the water that help gill function"... or "real plants cause less stress on fish because it's like their natural habitat, you want our fish to be happy don't you?. She's not gunna look into that. And if she does then I guess you're sol, and you best hope to christ she doesn't find this thread. lol... But on a more serious note, they really do keep your water cleaner, like MG said. And I honestly do think the fish are happier with them. Mine play in my plants all the time. I go to friends houses and their fish want nothing to do with their plastics.

And I'd get rid of the black lights. Although it might be cool at night, or as an option while you have guests over or something.

G/L to you

[SPACEMAKER]

The black lights will be replaced by white light. I am just not sure of the Kelvin temp yet.

There is a fixture up there for two 48" 40 watt flourescents.

Thanks for the compliments on the tank. I like what b rob said. I'm gonna use that.

It also occurred to me that since I will be the one cleaning, maintaining, setting up and paying for everything I will put in there what I please.

Plus I work primarily from home. I will have lots of time to dedicate to my aquarium. One way or another I will figure out what it takes to successfully maintain live plants.

Live plants it is.

[b rob]

Way to be. My only advise is to do ALOT of research cuz it's not idiot proof, and you don't want your wifey going "I told you so"

[Mgamer20o0]

The black lights will be replaced by white light. I am just not sure of the Kelvin temp yet.

There is a fixture up there for two 48" 40 watt flourescents.

Thanks for the compliments on the tank. I like what b rob said. I'm gonna use that.

It also occurred to me that since I will be the one cleaning, maintaining, setting up and paying for everything I will put in there what I please.

Plus I work primarily from home. I will have lots of time to dedicate to my aquarium. One way or another I will figure out what it takes to successfully maintain live plants.

Live plants it is.

i went with t12 shop lights at first. changed them out to t8 bulbs. they use less watts but put out more light.

[SPACEMAKER]

I will do a ton of research on everything. I have lots of time. I haven't even finished the plumbing on my basement sump filter. After that I will have several weeks of cycling. I am very lucky to have a highly reputable LFS nearby to help me out. I will also purchase a book and continue to consult this forum.

I would rather be patient and get it right than rush right in and have a disaster.

[SPACEMAKER]

i went with t12 shop lights at first. changed them out to t8 bulbs. they use less watts but put out more light.

I used to sell lights and I have never known a T8 have more light output than a T12 of the same Kelvin temp.

Also T8's are 32 watts while T12's are 40watts. They require different ballasts.

[b rob]

be wary of your lfs, trust no one

[Mgamer20o0]

I used to sell lights and I have never known a T8 have more light output than a T12 of the same Kelvin temp.

Also T8's are 32 watts while T12's are 40watts. They require different ballasts.

http://woo.gotdns.com/Aquarium/Lighting.htm


i at lest saw a better improvement. yes they need different ballasts. T8 needs electric and t12 i think is magnetic.

[SPACEMAKER]

be wary of your lfs, trust no one

I am very lucky in that regard.

Pruess Pets (http://www.preusspets.com/)

[Caspar]

You could go with slow growing plants that don't need a lot of light, special substrates, and Co2. I think that Anubias falls into this catergory. And as someone already mentioned live plants help to keep the tank healthy.

[jonasionin]

Show her www.aquabotanic.com, it led me to become more interested in creating a wonderful landscape with fish becoming a secondary element to my tank. AND, the fish will benefit from a natural landscape...fresh oxygen, nutrients, etc...

[SPACEMAKER]

Thanks for the great link.

I am worried that I don't have enough light. I addition to the two 48" 40watt bulbs I have fixtures in there for a couple of Matal Halides but I don't want to spend the money to run them.

[SPACEMAKER]

So according to the 2 watts per gallon rule I would need 270watts.

That is simply not feasible at this time.

At least I now know what I need to do.


Thanks to all of you who have offered advice on this. It is greatly appreciated. I really wanted live plants but my electric bill is high enough already.

[Mgamer20o0]

there are lower light plants like java moss and java fern i tell people to get first and see how it grows.

[ergo sum]

I am thinking the wife was right in this case.

[Dragon Queen]

I second the Java Fern, especially if you have anything you are looking at rock formations, fake or real, tie them to the top and you should be good. I have a 20H with 2 14 watt screw in compact florescent and the Java Fern does well. Some thing to keep in mind for further down the road.:look:
Just make sure that you make sure of the requirements of the plant you are looking at before buying.

[lilly]

First of all, I am a wife and I have plastic plants. There, I feel better than I admitted it. lol

Tell her that she wouldn't want a CZ diamond (fake), she wouldn't want fake flowers if she could have real, she wouldn't want fake wood on her floor if she could have wood etc.

So why have fake when you can have real??

I don't have real because I am just starting and live with a golf/bike nut who doesn't understand spending over $100 for a proper hood and light set up. He doesn't get fish. Your wife is lucky and your tank is amazing!

[plantbrain]

Ask her if she likes matching plastic fish to go with those plastic plants.

They don't die
They all get along
Don't jump out
Don't get dieases
Cheap
You can get the same color fish to match the couch
Never need fed
Match the day glow cheesy plants effectively
Never hide
Will not out grow the tank
Are as interesting as plastic plants.


Regards,
Tom Barr

[SPACEMAKER]

I am thinking the wife was right in this case.

She is always right.;)

[loaches r cool]

I used to sell lights and I have never known a T8 have more light output than a T12 of the same Kelvin temp.

Also T8's are 32 watts while T12's are 40watts. They require different ballasts.

Although some T8's and some T12's are designed with certain ballast in mind I have not yet come across one of either that wouldnt run on an electronic ballast. I have used T6, T8, T10, and T12 all on electronic ballast. I have a also used most of them on magnetic ballast as well. Infact many bulbs now actually say universal ballast (either or).

I disagree somewhat with that gotdns link provided though. Yes, most T8's are more effecient than T12's, but I dont think thier numbers are the best. Not enough samples perhaps. I have seen different lumen ratings for the philips bulbs. Also CF and T5 in general is arey more effecient than T8's though thier data indicates otherwise. Way too few samples of those used.

he smaller the diameter bulb the easier it is to excite the gasses and phosphors, etc. I have been experimenting with the T6 bulbs as well (Lightning Rods), but unfortunately havent been able to get any succesfully shipped to me other than an order of Aqua-Flora Plus bulbs. For all the 'plant bulbs' I have tried I like them the best. The only data I have seen on them is that the full spectrum 7000K is about 2900 lumens.

[jonasionin]

there are lower light plants like java moss and java fern i tell people to get first and see how it grows.

I would agree. You have a very large tank. Experiment. Get a few low light plants and see how you like them. Put in a few plastic plants for comparisson sake. I grow a variety of low-moderate light plants in my 10G tank without C02, using sand as my substrate and spiral compact fluorescent bulbs for light (to save on energy and efficiency, the kind you can buy at any hardware store or local supermarket or drugstore for that matter).

By the way...my wife is NOT always right!...but she's never wrong... ; )

[jennfier]

You can get the same color fish to match the couch

Regards,
Tom Barr

What if they have really flowery or funky busy patterns on their couch ?

[phanmc]

So according to the 2 watts per gallon rule I would need 270watts.

That is simply not feasible at this time.

At least I now know what I need to do.


Thanks to all of you who have offered advice on this. It is greatly appreciated. I really wanted live plants but my electric bill is high enough already.

The WPG rule only applies to tanks roughly between 20g and 100g of typical dimensions, tanks smaller requires more light per the rule and and larger tanks require less light.

Granted, 80w of light isn't alot over 135g but it may be enough to grow plants like anubias, java fern&moss, and some crypts considering your tank dimension (which doesn't look very deep). If you can double up the amount of wattage to 140 you will have more than enough for low light plants.

For the low light tank, it can be as simple as a weekly water change. The slow growth won't demand frequent fertilization or CO2 and algae growth will be slow enough for your algae eaters and you to handle.

Kelvin rating hardly matters, it is not an accurate measurement beneficial light for plants. Choose the bulbs that looks good for you. Alot of people prefer the 6,500k daylight bulbs because it's clear and bright while looking natural, but don't let the belief that k rating means something to plant growth stop you from getting a light color that you prefer.

[monkey_toes]

Personally I'd put some pants on and tell her you're getting live plants. But if you really need ammo just make up some stuff.

Dude — are you married?

[lilly]

I am married, 25 years so compromise is key.

How about a few floating plants?

The fish benefit but I don't have to mess with lighting or Co2 etc. When they get bad, I can replace them. Just don't get duckweed, it goes everywhere and clogs the filter. It took me a long time to pick it all of my tank!